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-   -   Israel to deny visit from two US Congresswomen. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338237)

JoeMorgue 15th August 2019 08:22 AM

Israel to deny visit from two US Congresswomen.
 
Quote:

(CNN) Israel has decided to ban Democratic congresswomen Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar from entering the country, a spokesman for deputy foreign minister Tzipi Hotovely told CNN on Thursday.
CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/polit...ntl/index.html

plague311 15th August 2019 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12787856)

I saw that too. That's very Trumpian of them, right along the lines of "I'm having a birthday party and YOU can't come."

Chris_Halkides 15th August 2019 09:27 AM

How does this show weakness?
 
From CNN: "The announcement came shortly after Trump said Israel would be showing "great weakness" by allowing them to enter the country." WTF? Whatever happened to the notion that partisan politics stops at the ocean's edge.

JoeMorgue 15th August 2019 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 12787912)
From CNN: "The announcement came shortly after Trump said Israel would be showing "great weakness" by allowing them to enter the country." WTF? Whatever happened to the notion that partisan politics stops at the ocean's edge.

That has literally never been a thing.

Donal 15th August 2019 09:31 AM

Pretty sure John Boehner inviting Netanyahu to address Congress with no input from Obama, and even a few shots at Obama during the speech, was what happened to it.

Segnosaur 15th August 2019 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12787917)
Quote:

From CNN: "The announcement came shortly after Trump said Israel would be showing "great weakness" by allowing them to enter the country." WTF? Whatever happened to the notion that partisan politics stops at the ocean's edge.
That has literally never been a thing.

Not exactly politicians, but remember when the Dixie Chicks made a comment about how they were "ashamed" Bush was from Texas. Part of the criticism that they received (at least from some people) was that they made their comments when outside of the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_...d_blacklisting

The Great Zaganza 15th August 2019 09:54 AM

Looks like Israel is certain it can hack the next election for Trump.

applecorped 15th August 2019 10:19 AM

:v:

Brainster 15th August 2019 10:23 AM

Israel doesn't want to allow its country to be used as a platform for hatred and intolerance. Can't say as I blame them.

Stacyhs 15th August 2019 10:25 AM

What a petty, petty little boy Trump is. Netanyahu isn't any better. Disgusting jerks.

Stacyhs 15th August 2019 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 12788000)
Israel doesn't want to allow its country to be used as a platform for hatred and intolerance. Can't say as I blame them.

?
I don't either. But what has that got to do with Omar and Tlaib? I think you've drunk too much of Trump's twitter Kool Aid as neither rep has expressed either. They've harshly criticized some of Israel's policies but that does not constitute hatred or intolerance. Would you care to quote, with citations, them doing so?

pgwenthold 15th August 2019 10:32 AM

If the rest of congress has any integrity, they would immediately announce that no member will visit Israel until this is changed. This is action against the US government, of which these representatives are duly elected members. Congress needs to say, you either let all US Congress people enter, or no one will.

I can imagine the democrats could do that, but how many republicans would?

Damn it, the Congress is one of three branches of government, and has the right to insist that it be treated that way.

Cain 15th August 2019 10:37 AM

Israel can do no wrong.

Stacyhs 15th August 2019 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 12788019)
If the rest of congress has any integrity, they would immediately announce that no member will visit Israel until this is changed. This is action against the US government, of which these representatives are duly elected members. Congress needs to say, you either let all US Congress people enter, or no one will.

I can imagine the democrats could do that, but how many republicans would?

Damn it, the Congress is one of three branches of government, and has the right to insist that it be treated that way.

Well said. If the Republicans don't have any cajones and refuse to go, then at least the Democratic ones should refuse.

Stacyhs 15th August 2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cain (Post 12788023)
Israel can do no wrong.

Sadly, in some people's eyes, that is all too true. They conflate criticism of the State of Israel with antisemitism.

Jungle Jim 15th August 2019 10:43 AM

You might think Israel would have better manners considering the annual gift they receive from the United States.

"The annual funding Israel receives from the United States may be increased by $200 million in 2019, according to President Donald Trump's fiscal year budget request. Israel is expected to receive $3.3 billion in 2019."

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...-200m-in-2019/

plague311 15th August 2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle Jim (Post 12788036)
You might think Israel would have better manners considering the annual gift they receive from the United States.

"The annual funding Israel receives from the United States may be increased by $200 million in 2019, according to President Donald Trump's fiscal year budget request. Israel is expected to receive $3.3 billion in 2019."

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...-200m-in-2019/

I am going to plead ignorance on this, because I haven't researched it at all. Why the hell do we give them money again?

JoeMorgue 15th August 2019 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12788057)
I am going to plead ignorance on this, because I haven't researched it at all. Why the hell do we give them money again?

Because Israel has to exist so it can be destroyed when Jesus returns.

Cain 15th August 2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12788057)
I am going to plead ignorance on this, because I haven't researched it at all. Why the hell do we give them money again?

Because Arabs saw Jews make the desert bloom and completely surrounded them. Some even came before Jews arrived from Europe (the sneaky ******* call themselves "Palestinians").

dudalb 15th August 2019 11:33 AM

Incredibly stupid move by Bibi.
He is throwing the Israeli tradition of getting bi partisan support in the US out the window in his kissing the butt of Donnie.
I ain't defending the Israeli Government on this idiocy.

pgwenthold 15th August 2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle Jim (Post 12788036)
You might think Israel would have better manners considering the annual gift they receive from the United States.

"The annual funding Israel receives from the United States may be increased by $200 million in 2019, according to President Donald Trump's fiscal year budget request. Israel is expected to receive $3.3 billion in 2019."

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...-200m-in-2019/

Then again, Israel has Congress in a bind.

The US can't vote to cut funding to Israel lest those politicians be seen as anti-Israel. So they have to continue.

The only way to avoid it is basically to be Jewish. For example, Nancy Goroff is running for congress in NY1, and is Jewish, and has condemned Israel for their actions. She can get away with it (although I'm sure they will still try to paint her as anti-Israel).

That's one thing Nancy really has going for her. The republican rep in NY1 has been on the "Ilhan Omar is racist against Jews!" bandwagon. It will be hard for him to use that campaigning against Goroff, when she says, "I am Jewish, so you don't need to tell me about anti-Jewish racism." Then again, Nancy has to get through the primary, and that's not a given. I hope she does.

ponderingturtle 15th August 2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12788109)
Incredibly stupid move by Bibi.
He is throwing the Israeli tradition of getting bi partisan support in the US out the window in his kissing the butt of Donnie.
I ain't defending the Israeli Government on this idiocy.

And the Trump Settlement wasn't? They are really just birds of a feather.

And people call Trump divisive, could anyone else bring so many nazis and zionists together to support him like he has? That is talent right there.

Brainster 15th August 2019 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12788010)
?
I don't either. But what has that got to do with Omar and Tlaib? I think you've drunk too much of Trump's twitter Kool Aid as neither rep has expressed either. They've harshly criticized some of Israel's policies but that does not constitute hatred or intolerance. Would you care to quote, with citations, them doing so?

They are supporters of the BDS movement which aims to harm the Israeli economy and has as its long-term goal, the destruction of Israel.

dudalb 15th August 2019 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 12788119)
They are supporters of the BDS movement which aims to harm the Israeli economy and has as its long-term goal, the destruction of Israel.

maybe, but barring two sitting members of the US Congress is a really bonehead move..and I am strongly opposed to the BDS.

I Am The Scum 15th August 2019 12:35 PM

Well this is an interesting little wrinkle.

Quote:

The prominent pro-Israel group American Israel Public Affairs Committee suggested Thursday it opposed a move by Israel -- and supported by President Donald Trump -- to bar Democratic Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib from entering the country.

AIPAC, which advocates for a staunch alliance between the US and Israel, has frequently sided with Trump administration policies that have supported Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government, making its opposition especially notable.

"We disagree with Reps. Omar and Tlaib's support for the anti-Israel and anti-peace BDS movement, along with Rep. Tlaib's calls for a one-state solution. We also believe every member of Congress should be able to visit and experience our democratic ally Israel firsthand," AIPAC tweeted early Thursday afternoon.

uke2se 15th August 2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 12788119)
They are supporters of the BDS movement which aims to harm the Israeli economy and has as its long-term goal, the destruction of Israel.

No, that's not a goal it has. At all. It aims to work towards the granting of equal rights to Palestinians within the state of Israel.

But keep on showing off your ignorance.

dudalb 15th August 2019 02:27 PM

[quote=uke2se;12788190]No, that's not a goal it has. At all. It aims to work towards the granting of equal rights to Palestinians within the state of Israel.


Problem is that a great many BDS supporters are also in the "Death To Israel" crowd.
ANyway, it takes two to tango,and I will think about supporting the BDS when HAMAS gives up it's commitment to the destruction of Israel.
Problem is that too many people are driven by either mindless "Israel can do no wrong" attitudes of "Israel Is Evil" attitudes.

dudalb 15th August 2019 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12788029)
Sadly, in some people's eyes, that is all too true. They conflate criticism of the State of Israel with antisemitism.

True, but you can argue that advocating the Destruction of Isarael is de facto Anti Semitic.
Not thrilled ,for instance, with that map of the Mideast Tlaib supposedly has in her congressional office with the words "Israel" crossed out and replaced by "Palestine".

dudalb 15th August 2019 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 12787912)
From CNN: "The announcement came shortly after Trump said Israel would be showing "great weakness" by allowing them to enter the country." WTF? Whatever happened to the notion that partisan politics stops at the ocean's edge.

That notion has always been a myth. Look at how US foreign policy toward France during the French Revolution became a divisive political issue in the 1790's. Foreign Policy has always been a hot political issue.

But that does not let Trump off the hook for his idiotic comments and his egging on of Bibi to do this.
I hope some Isrealis understand that Trump does not give a damn about Israel, he just sees it as a useful tool for firing up his right wing evangelical base. He will turn on Israel in a minute if he thought it would be I his political advantage.

crescent 15th August 2019 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12788248)
True, but you can argue that advocating the Destruction of Isarael is de facto Anti Semitic.
Not thrilled ,for instance, with that map of the Mideast Tlaib supposedly has in her congressional office with the words "Israel" crossed out and replaced by "Palestine".

Not crossed out. It had a sticky note on it with an arrow on it pointing at Israel, West Bank and Gaza that said "Palestine". One could read that many ways, such as suggesting that Palestine is also a place, as is the goal of the two-state solution that has been the basis of U.S. policy in the region for 40+ years.

uke2se 15th August 2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12788243)
Problem is that a great many BDS supporters are also in the "Death To Israel" crowd.

But do you believe BDS as an organization has "death to Israel" as a goal?

It doesn't, just to be clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12788243)
ANyway, it takes two to tango,and I will think about supporting the BDS when HAMAS gives up it's commitment to the destruction of Israel.

HAMAS is in no way affiliated with BDS, so that seems a bit unfair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12788243)
Problem is that too many people are driven by either mindless "Israel can do no wrong" attitudes of "Israel Is Evil" attitudes.

Which is why an organization that focuses on the rights of Palestinians to return to their country and to be treated like human beings is a nice safe centrist thing to support for any enlightened people in the political middle.

Brainster 15th August 2019 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 12788190)
No, that's not a goal it has. At all. It aims to work towards the granting of equal rights to Palestinians within the state of Israel.

But keep on showing off your ignorance.

The right of return will destroy Israel as a state, true or false? Feel free to pretend that others are the ignorant ones.

Mumbles 15th August 2019 03:40 PM

So they decided to join in with the white nationalist.

Okay.

jhunter1163 15th August 2019 04:00 PM

Bibi's gotten on the wrong side of AIPAC on this, not to mention a good many congresscritters.

https://www.jta.org/2019/08/15/unite...tlaib-and-omar

Stacyhs 15th August 2019 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 12788119)
They are supporters of the BDS movement which aims to harm the Israeli economy and has as its long-term goal, the destruction of Israel.

Would you care to cite the highlighted part from a BDS source?
Quote:

According to the BDS their goals are:

The BDS campaign urges various forms of nonviolent punitive measures against Israel until it complies with the precepts of international law. These measures should bring about:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall;

Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and

Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS campaign is organised and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee. The committee cites a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoes the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa; the BDS campaign calls for "various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law".
(From Wiki with citations provided for each of the above statements)

I don't see 'the destruction of Israel' listed among the BDS goals. Harming
finances by boycotting is not exactly an extremist or unusual move. Trump has called for boycotting several companies including the NFL, Univision, CNN, Apple,AT&T, Harley Davidson, and even Mexico and Italy.

Trump's move was petty and stupid because he's a petty and stupid little man.

Giz 15th August 2019 04:33 PM

Insisting on the right of return is equivalent to calling for Israel to be destroyed

Beelzebuddy 15th August 2019 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giz (Post 12788360)
Insisting on the right of return is equivalent to calling for Israel to be destroyed

Does UN Resolution 194 stipulate that?

BobTheCoward 15th August 2019 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 12788000)
Israel doesn't want to allow its country to be used as a platform for hatred and intolerance. Can't say as I blame them.

How different are their opinions from liberal Israelis?

Is it Israelis or Israelites?

I Am The Scum 15th August 2019 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12788355)
Harming
finances by boycotting is not exactly an extremist or unusual move. Trump has called for boycotting several companies including the NFL, Univision, CNN, Apple,AT&T, Harley Davidson, and even Mexico and Italy.

This is the part that I really don't get. Anyone who's even a little bit comfortable with capitalism cannot cry foul anytime a boycott is proposed. Economic pressure exists in many forms for all kinds of reasons.

It would be foolish to state that anyone proposing boycotts against Israel is anti-semetic. I would be making a similar error if I stated that anyone who voted against Obama was a racist.

dudalb 15th August 2019 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 12788258)
But do you believe BDS as an organization has "death to Israel" as a goal?

It doesn't, just to be clear.



HAMAS is in no way affiliated with BDS, so that seems a bit unfair.



Which is why an organization that focuses on the rights of Palestinians to return to their country and to be treated like human beings is a nice safe centrist thing to support for any enlightened people in the political middle.

Let's be honest: the "Right of Return" is not going to happen. Makes a much sense as the descedents of all the Germans who were expelled from East Prussia in 1945/46 to demand to return to Poland.


I believe in a two state solution,but IMHO the "Right of Return" is pretty much a death sentence for Israel as a sovereign state.

Which is what I think you want because that is the current hard left dogma.


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