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-   -   Visiting Morocco while being daft, naÔve European girls (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334924)

dann 23rd February 2019 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProBonoShill (Post 12611548)
Wow someone's lost the plot, I'm sure the radical Muslims who can't control themselves appreciate your support though! Good job!


I thought it was the radical white supremacists who couldn't control themselves? I mean people like Anders Behring Breivik and James Alex Fields ...
And I'm sure that they do appreciate your support!

dann 23rd February 2019 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12611555)
He puts the interests of a foreign people (who want him dead, mind you) above those of his own people. This is not cowardice and traitorous, but "tolerance" according to his piety.


So more accusations against me as a traitor to the white race. Is this the third time?!
Could you come up with some kind of documentation that would render your racist ideas at least plausible. (I know that the OP was intended to do so, but it didn't really do the trick.
And why do you worry so much about my "own people"? Are they no longer gullible cowards who deserve to die?

dann 23rd February 2019 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12611535)
Ha! "Race traitor!" :boggled:

Keep em' coming, Baylor. It's a sight to behold.


He has kept them coming, and they are only getting worse: 'Visiting the ISF while being a daft white supremacist.'

baron 23rd February 2019 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611438)
Wow, you could have fooled me! I thought it was about visiting Morocco while being daft, naÔve European girls.

No you didn't. As you're well aware we're addressing your allegation that

"...they [the girls] might still have been alive if Jyllands-Posten hadn't posted its stupid Muhammad drawing..."

If you didn't want people to discuss your victim blaming you shouldn't have posted it. You did post it, so now we're discussing it, or more accurately I am, you'd prefer to rant about Trump and Anders Breivik in order to divert attention from your repulsive worldview.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611438)
No, you focus on crimes committed by.... say it with me.... Muslims, for some reason.

Could it be because that's integral to the topic of this thread, a crime committed by Muslims?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611438)
Any other crimes don't really count in your universe. Certainly not the crimes committed by devoted anti-Muslims like this fundamentalist terrorist, a Christian, but not even a particularly fanatical Christian, actually a very Scandinavian one as far as his own religious faith goes: Anders Behring Breivik: Religious and political views. Just to stay on topic, since that story could have had the headline Visiting UtÝya while being daft, naÔve young Scandinavians, girls as well as boys, right?!

Your whataboutism and your support for Islamic terrorism and murder is an embarrassment to behold. If you want to start a thread on Breivik or Trump or any random non-Muslim that comes to mind then you're free to do so. In this thread we're discussing why you find it acceptable to apologise for Islamic murderers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611438)
When you're right, you're right: I actually am the one who provides quotations, and you are the one who provide baseless accusations, so nobody will wonder why you're doing it again. Lying doesn't seem to be an infraction.

Neither does cheerleading for terrorism so you know, swings and roundabouts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611438)
What has Trump got to do with your derail topic?

Nothing. Next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611438)
I don't really care that you don't call Muslims a minority. In Denmark, they are a minority, and a rather non-violent and harmless one.

All that bluster and you still can't account for why you revile free speech for non-Muslims and why you support Islamic atrocities.

dann 23rd February 2019 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12611576)
No you didn't. As you're well aware we're addressing your allegation that

"...they [the girls] might still have been alive if Jyllands-Posten hadn't posted its stupid Muhammad drawing..."

If you didn't want people to discuss your victim blaming you shouldn't have posted it. You did post it, so now we're discussing it, or more accurately I am, you'd prefer to rant about Trump and Anders Breivik in order to divert attention from your repulsive worldview.


My victim blaming?!!! Did you notice the title of this thread?!
It's the absolute truth that the two Scandinavian girls might still have been alive if Jyllands-Posten hadn't started the stupid campaign against the peaceful Muslim minority in Denmark. Most of the world wouldn't have heard about Denmark otherwise, but after that, Danes became a target - even two girls who were brave enough to stand up against the homicidal terror of white supremacists in Scandinavia. (By the way, I'm happy that the Moroccans get to hear that part of the story. It will serve to make them despise the terrorist murderers so much more!)

The one who has been blaming the victims from the very beginning, the title of the OP, is Baylor, who seems to agree with Breivik in his criticism of Scandinavian anti-racists.
And the repulsive worldview is yours!

Quote:

Could it be because that's integral to the topic of this thread, a crime committed by Muslims?

Thank you! That's what I've been saying was your focus the whole time: Not crimes committed by Muslim extremists, but crimes committed by Muslims - in spite of the fact that the millions of Moroccan Muslims despise and condemn these terrorists the same way that the girls and I have condemned white supremacist terrorists.

Quote:

Your whataboutism and your support for Islamic terrorism and murder is an embarrassment to behold. If you want to start a thread on Breivik or Trump or any random non-Muslim that comes to mind then you're free to do so. In this thread we're discussing why you find it acceptable to apologise for Islamic murderers.

When terrorists murdering two innocent Scandinavian girls is treated as a (pseudo-)argument, it's not whataboutism to point out that blaming the alleged naÔvety of girls for having turned them into murder victims (Yes! You guys are the actual victim blamers!) is absurd in the light of the teenagers massacred by Christian white supremacist Anders Behring Breivik!
And once again you don't deliver any proof that it is so, but you accuse me of finding "it acceptable to apologise for Islamic murderers."
With your grotesque lies, you still wonder why I'm reminded of Trump?!

Quote:

Neither does cheerleading for terrorism so you know, swings and roundabouts.

You and Baylor appear to be the victim-blaiming cheerleaders for terrorism in this thread!


Quote:

Nothing. Next.

All that bluster and you still can't account for why you revile free speech for non-Muslims and why you support Islamic atrocities.

And where exactly do I revile free speech - and in particular, of course, "for non-Muslims", now? And where do I "support Islamic atrocities"? (As if you were ever going to back up your accusations with proof.)
Aren't you guys the ones who claimed that the "daft, naÔve European girls" brought it upon themselves?!
Oh, the glee that you felt when writing and reading that title!

dann 23rd February 2019 07:00 AM

PS This is the most important thing that you guys have in common with the Islamic terrorists: Just like you are incapable of distinguishing between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, they are unable to distinguish between ordinary Danes and the stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.

DragonLady 23rd February 2019 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611658)
PS This is the most important thing that you guys have in common with the Islamic terrorists: Just like you are incapable of distinguishing between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, they are unable to distinguish between ordinary Danes and the stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.

How do you tell the difference in either group?

carlitos 23rd February 2019 08:26 AM

Since Baylor is an expert, perhaps they could enlighten us about the racial differences between Danes and Moroccans. Berbers often have light eyes, but the skin is more cafe latte I know. Is there a color guide we can consult or do we need to measure their noses and stuff?

baron 23rd February 2019 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611658)
PS This is the most important thing that you guys have in common with the Islamic terrorists: Just like you are incapable of distinguishing between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, they are unable to distinguish between ordinary Danes and the stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.

I'm glad you wrote that. I was just about to address your previous, longer post, with all its attendant absurdities, but now there's no need.

You clearly and unequivocally state here that those who mock Islam are more valid targets for murder than those who do not.

Thanks for proving my point (as if I hadn't made it clearly enough in the first place).

Agatha 23rd February 2019 11:42 AM

Mod Warning It has been suggested in the mod area that this thread is so far off the rails it has become unsalvageable. Please try to prove that observation wrong by getting back on topic, refraining from personalisation, and refraining from incivility. I have removed the worst of the off-topic and uncivil posts to AAH, and I'd be much obliged if you would all return to discussing the actual events rather than calling each other names.
Posted By:Agatha

dann 23rd February 2019 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonLady (Post 12611674)
How do you tell the difference in either group?

Between the killers and the ordinary Muslims who condemn them? That seems to be pretty obvious.
Between the editors of Jyllands-Posten and the ordinary Danes who do something else? That is the difference.

dann 23rd February 2019 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12611707)
I'm glad you wrote that. I was just about to address your previous, longer post, with all its attendant absurdities, but now there's no need.

You clearly and unequivocally state here that those who mock Islam are more valid targets for murder than those who do not.

Thanks for proving my point (as if I hadn't made it clearly enough in the first place).


As always, I will have to ask you where I clearly and unequivocally state what you claim that I do. What allegedly "daft, naÔve European girls" are valid targets for according to the OP was made pretty obvious from the beginning.

Baylor 23rd February 2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611562)
Is he just offended because of the fact that anti-Muslims have killed so many more Scandinavians, most of them white, probably, than Muslim extremists? )

Just stop for a second and think how dumb this is to a normal person.

Hey guys, did you know that in China, more people are killed by Chinese than Bolivians? I bet the Chinese are so offended by this.

No, no they're not. How far deep into religious hysteria do you have to be to think like this? This type of thought is alien to the 8 billion people on the planet, minus a handful of brainwashed white people.

Baylor 23rd February 2019 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611568)
So more accusations against me as a traitor to the white race. Is this the third time?!
Could you come up with some kind of documentation that would render your racist ideas at least plausible. (I know that the OP was intended to do so, but it didn't really do the trick.

The interests and way of life of Europeans liberal democracy are not compatible with the interests and way of life of Muslims. Ensuring children and posterity have the same quality of life as you do is infinitely more important than coming across as "not racist."
Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611568)
And why do you worry so much about my "own people"? Are they no longer gullible cowards who deserve to die?

I never said they deserve to die. But if they don't want to pass on their way of life to their posterity, then the pathologies of Islam will overtake European nihilism.

Baylor 23rd February 2019 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611562)
And there's the problem, right there! Apart from the hyperbole and strawman about the responsibility for beheadings, Baylor's problem seems to be white supremacy, pure and simple: You have to distinguish along race lines before you start hating anybody:

Rest assured, plenty of people hate you for the color of your skin. These poor girls learned this lesson the hard way. No one's asking you to hate anyone for the color of their skin. But because you like to think of yourself as "not racist" doesn't mean people of different races hate you any less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611562)
"hating people of your own ethnic heritage" is racial treason. (Yes, it is, ... if you're a racist.) And for some reason, being anti-racist is considered to be "tribalism" ... of the very worst kind.

It is. The way you rant endlessly "us right wing fox news conservative nra christian gun orange man bad" is you flaunting your tribal loyalties.

The beheaded Norwegian girl showed her tribal loyalties by sharing that horrendous video. "when a white man commits a drug crime, that's a good thing because he's not a muslim."

dann 24th February 2019 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12611928)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611562)
Is he just offended because of the fact that anti-Muslims have killed so many more Scandinavians, most of them white, probably, than Muslim extremists?


Just stop for a second and think how dumb this is to a normal person.

Hey guys, did you know that in China, more people are killed by Chinese than Bolivians? I bet the Chinese are so offended by this.

No, no they're not. How far deep into religious hysteria do you have to be to think like this? This type of thought is alien to the 8 billion people on the planet, minus a handful of brainwashed white people.


Take the time to look at your own reasoning and how dumb it looks to a normal person. There is a very serious flaw arising from your racially biased way of viewing the world: Using Chinese in China versus Bolivians as your comparison makes it obvious that you confuse white supremacists with white people (or Scandinavians: Yes, we tend to be whiter than the whitest white U.S. Americans!). And this is not the first time you confuse these things.
There are actually far more Muslims than white supremacists in Scandinavia, fortunately, which makes your argument absurd. To come up with an analogy that has anything at all to do with what I wrote, you would have to look at murders committed by, I don't know, yellow supremacists? Oriental supremacists? Chinese supremacists? in China. Not very many, I suspect, in spite of China being the largest nation in the world.

So I am actually the one who has to ask you: How far deep [sic!] into racist hysteria do you have to be to think like this? To confuse anti-islamic extremists and Muslim extremists with people of different nationalities (or in your case probably: with races corresponding to these nationalities)? Your type of thought is alien to anybody who's not an extreme racist - of whatever colour or nationality.
If you find it easier to grasp the concept when you see people instead of reading about them, you may prefer the movie version of Christian white supremacist, anti-Muslim Anders Behring Breivik's accomplishments: UtÝya: July 22 (Wikipedia)
(By the way, didn't kill many Muslims that day, which is why white cultural Christians in Scandinavia tend to fear radical anti-Muslims far more than Muslims, whom most of us don't fear at all, or even Muslim extremists: People like Breivik are despicable cowards, but they are also extremely dangerous!)

Baylor 24th February 2019 03:56 AM

Desperate mental gymnastics. I'm not a believer of this religion of yours so I'm not going into your little funhouse. And just to save you the time, I'm not clicking on the hyperlinks and I doubt anyone else is either so spare yourself the effort. Also the "(wikipedia)" is unnecessary.

baron 24th February 2019 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12612452)
Take the time to look at your own reasoning and how dumb it looks to a normal person. There is a very serious flaw arising from your racially biased way of viewing the world: Using Chinese in China versus Bolivians as your comparison makes it obvious that you confuse white supremacists with white people (or Scandinavians:

The standard of logic you employ in your arguments is shockingly poor. If you have a country that is 85% white non-Muslim, 5% Muslim (and 10% other) then the pool of people from which white supremacists can appear is seventeen times greater than the pool of people from which Muslim terrorists can appear.

I don't know if you seriously believe that you can separate white supremacists from whites and then compare them with all Muslims as a statistically valid argument, or you're just hoping that people on this forum are too stupid to notice your ploy.

dann 24th February 2019 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12611934)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611568)
So more accusations against me as a traitor to the white race. Is this the third time?!
Could you come up with some kind of documentation that would render your racist ideas at least plausible. (I know that the OP was intended to do so, but it didn't really do the trick.

The interests and way of life of Europeans liberal democracy are not compatible with the interests and way of life of Muslims. Ensuring children and posterity have the same quality of life as you do is infinitely more important than coming across as "not racist."
Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12611568)
And why do you worry so much about my "own people"? Are they no longer gullible cowards who deserve to die?

I never said they deserve to die. But if they don't want to pass on their way of life to their posterity, then the pathologies of Islam will overtake European nihilism.


I suspected that you wouldn't come up with anything other than your racist fairy tales: "the way of life of Muslims"!!! The way of life of Muslims seems to be compatible with the "interests and way of life of Europeans [sic!] liberal democracy" to the extent where many Muslims have become members of parliament - and in the process, many of them have become 'cultural Muslims', corresponding to the kind of cultural Christians that the majority of people are nowadays, if not in Europe then at least in Scandinavia.
The "pathologies of Islam" and "European nihilism". I think you're talking out of your posteri...ty. And how can you come up with ideas like this when you should be worrying about the much more apparent pathologies of your POTUS?

By the way, so now we are gullible nihilists! It's getting better and better all the time.

dann 24th February 2019 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12611939)
Rest assured, plenty of people hate you for the color of your skin. These poor girls learned this lesson the hard way. No one's asking you to hate anyone for the color of their skin. But because you like to think of yourself as "not racist" doesn't mean people of different races hate you any less.


Your point seems to be that there are other racists in the world than white supremacists. And now you've suddenly gone from religion to race, which, of course, is no coincidence since your anti-Muslim ideas are nothing but your racism in another guise: the religion of coloured people! And you're completely wrong again, as you were from the OP: I don't like to think of myself as "not racist", but the idea is probably inconceivable to you. I just don't like racism and racists. And in the case of the girls, you also seem to think that what drove them was liking to think of themselves as "not racist".
It wasn't. They appear to have been anti-racist, that's all.

Quote:

It is. The way you rant endlessly "us right wing fox news conservative nra christian gun orange man bad" is you flaunting your tribal loyalties.

So we're back to my ranting in spite of your apparent inability to establish any consistent argument beyond your boring, repetitive racism. And your "" is no quotation and doesn't even come close.

Quote:

The beheaded Norwegian girl showed her tribal loyalties by sharing that horrendous video. "when a white man commits a drug crime, that's a good thing because he's not a muslim."

Unlike you, the Norwegian woman wasn't "tribal". She was not a white supremacist. But like many Norwegians, she may have felt the need to distance herself from the atrocities committed by Norwegian white supremacist Anders Behring Breivik. That is what nationalism does to people, sometimes: They feel shame about things done by other compatriots, which is just as stupid as feeling pride for the same reason.
But to some people, usually to those who don't amount to much is this world, that's their way of coping: I may be piss poor and have a miserable life, but at least I'm proud to be an American! Others go one step further and say, but at least I'm white, which doesn't make them less pathetic.

dann 24th February 2019 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12612453)
Desperate mental gymnastics. I'm not a believer of this religion of yours so I'm not going into your little funhouse. And just to save you the time, I'm not clicking on the hyperlinks and I doubt anyone else is either so spare yourself the effort. Also the "(wikipedia)" is unnecessary.


As I expected.

Baylor 24th February 2019 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12612462)
I suspected that you wouldn't come up with anything other than your racist fairy tales: "the way of life of Muslims"!!! The way of life of Muslims seems to be compatible with the "interests and way of life of Europeans [sic!] liberal democracy"

You already said you're willing to sacrifice freedom of speech - a value white people hold dear - just to appease Muslims. You're not leaving a better future for your many children and are throwing it away just so you can say you're "not racist." Seems selfish.

dann 24th February 2019 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12612454)
The standard of logic you employ in your arguments is shockingly poor. If you have a country that is 85% white non-Muslim, 5% Muslim (and 10% other) then the pool of people from which white supremacists can appear is seventeen times greater than the pool of people from which Muslim terrorists can appear.

I don't know if you seriously believe that you can separate white supremacists from whites and then compare them with all Muslims as a statistically valid argument, or you're just hoping that people on this forum are too stupid to notice your ploy.


Yes, the "pool"! But I wasn't talking about the pool, I was talking about anti-Muslims and other white supremacists. You are right, of course, if this is meant as an illustration of the thought-processes of white supremacists: We are the majority! But that is only because they tend to forget that the other 84% may be white and a lot of them Christian, but "the pool" doesn't make them racists!

By the way, you are the ones who can't distinguish between Muslims and Islamic extremists. I'm not the one who has a problem with that.
And I know for sure that most readers of this forum knew about your ploy before they started reading this thread.

dann 24th February 2019 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12612477)
You already said you're willing to sacrifice freedom of speech - a value white people hold dear - just to appease Muslims. You're not leaving a better future for your many children and are throwing it away just so you can say you're "not racist." Seems selfish.


"sacrifice freedom of speech" and in order "to appease Muslims"? Really? I said that? Where exactly?
You're making it up again.
Our "many children" and to say that we're "not racist". By now most people would have realized that absolutely nobody has said that they're "not racist". Actually, the only people who say that they're "not racist" tend to be racists! :)

Baylor 24th February 2019 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12612475)
As I expected.

Sorry (not really) but your ramblings are nothing more than a religious interpretation of contemporary events. Saying things like, "white people who kill people are technically white supremacists so that means white supremacists kill more people than Muslims and that makes them more danger than Muslims," that doesn't tell us anything meaningful about the world. Most people don't view the world that way and it sounds just like a religious sermon of a lonely person desperately trying to connect with others.

dann 24th February 2019 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12612481)
Sorry (not really) but your ramblings are nothing more than a religious interpretation of contemporary events. Saying things like, "white people who kill people are technically white supremacists so that means white supremacists kill more people than Muslims and that makes them more danger [sic.] than Muslims," that doesn't tell us anything meaningful about the world. Most people don't view the world that way and it sounds just like a religious sermon of a lonely person desperately trying to connect with others.


Religious, religious, religious! I think it's clear to everybody who's desperately trying! :)
And where do you think that I've said anything as incoherent as that? (And again in quotation marks!)

Baylor 24th February 2019 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12612480)
Our "many children" and to say that we're "not racist".

I meant YOUR many children. The many children you have. Dann's children.

dann 24th February 2019 04:53 AM

What do my children have to do with anything??! They might be half black for all you know ...

Aaaaahhh, right, I forgot! It's your old Bugman argument that you fall back on because it went so well for you the first time, right? :)

DragonLady 24th February 2019 05:59 AM

Quote:

By the way, you are the ones who can't distinguish between Muslims and Islamic extremists. I'm not the one who has a problem with that.

I ask again: how do you distinguish between them?

dann 24th February 2019 06:19 AM

So now you're asking about the difference between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, is that it?

DragonLady 24th February 2019 06:42 AM

You've said:

Quote:

PS This is the most important thing that you guys have in common with the Islamic terrorists: Just like you are incapable of distinguishing between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, they are unable to distinguish between ordinary Danes and the stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.
Quote:

By the way, you are the ones who can't distinguish between Muslims and Islamic extremists. I'm not the one who has a problem with that.
Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12612518)
So now you're asking about the difference between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, is that it?

Nothing "now" about it; I've asked the same question both times.

You've claimed to know how to distinguish an "ordinary" Dane from a stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.

But apparently (radical? ordinary? all?) Muslims cannot tell the difference, so they target Danes now.

You're also implying you're somehow able to distinguish ordinary Muslims from Islamic extremists, and sneering at those who do not have this power of discrimination.

So, I'm asking: how do you tell the difference? What are the tattletale signs a Dane is from Jyllands-Posten? What is the giveaway a Muslim is an Islamic extremist likely to plan and/or commit violent acts?

Are you also able to tell which Muslim families will choose to radicalize their children to take the place of those Islam extremists who are killed in their Holy battles?

Foolmewunz 24th February 2019 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonLady (Post 12612527)
You've said:







Nothing "now" about it; I've asked the same question both times.

You've claimed to know how to distinguish an "ordinary" Dane from a stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.

But apparently (radical? ordinary? all?) Muslims cannot tell the difference, so they target Danes now.

You're also implying you're somehow able to distinguish ordinary Muslims from Islamic extremists, and sneering at those who do not have this power of discrimination.

So, I'm asking: how do you tell the difference? What are the tattletale signs a Dane is from Jyllands-Posten? What is the giveaway a Muslim is an Islamic extremist likely to plan and/or commit violent acts?

Are you also able to tell which Muslim families will choose to radicalize their children to take the place of those Islam extremists who are killed in their Holy battles?

Hilited: Oooh, can I be the deplorable? It's like you have a big jar of M&Ms... etc... So you just ban all of 'em!

Lithrael 24th February 2019 07:04 AM

Is this some variation of the ďbowl of candy with some poisoned ones inĒ argument? If you canít tell on sight from a distance then youíd better discriminate against the lot just to be safe?

DragonLady 24th February 2019 07:05 AM

Quote:

Hilited: Oooh, can I be the deplorable? It's like you have a big jar of M&Ms... etc... So you just ban all of 'em!
No more absurd than "kill all the infidels so we can have a perfect Muslim world" or "punish the whole class so we're sure to make the right person pay".

DragonLady 24th February 2019 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithrael (Post 12612535)
Is this some variation of the “bowl of candy with some poisoned ones in” argument? If you can’t tell on sight from a distance then you’d better discriminate against the lot just to be safe?

No. It isn't. However, I'm willing to bet in real life practice, no one here would eat the candy regardless of ideology.

It's calling out Dann for using the argument that SOME cannot tell who others are at a glance, but somehow he can.


Quote:

Just like you are incapable of distinguishing between ordinary Muslims and Islamic extremists, they are unable to distinguish between ordinary Danes and the stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten.
This implies that he CAN distinguish who is who, so I'm asking him to share his means. If he does not, in fact, possess this ability, why is he using it as a means of putting down others?

Lithrael 24th February 2019 08:10 AM

I donít see that as implying that he can distinguish them on sight either. Itís my (and probably his) opinion that trying to distinguish what someoneís ideology is based on their ethnicity, usually does more harm than good overall. Iím not saying I can do it better than you can. Iím saying nobody can do it effectively. It takes more information than that.

Lithrael 24th February 2019 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonLady (Post 12612543)
No. It isn't. However, I'm willing to bet in real life practice, no one here would eat the candy regardless of ideology.

It depends on what ďeating the candy regardlessĒ represents. If it represents a trivial gain in exchange for a small but deadly risk then of course nobody should eat the candy. But if it represents giving other people a chance at being treated like humans in exchange for a small but deadly risk, then the people who are willing to take that risk arenít just being risky idiots for no good reason.

baron 24th February 2019 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithrael (Post 12612578)
It depends on what ďeating the candy regardlessĒ represents. If it represents a trivial gain in exchange for a small but deadly risk then of course nobody should eat the candy. But if it represents giving other people a chance at being treated like humans in exchange for a small but deadly risk, then the people who are willing to take that risk arenít just being risky idiots for no good reason.

Maybe I've lost track of the conversation, but what does being not 'given a chance at being treated like a human' entail? Does it by any chance involve witnessing a satirical cartoon mocking one's religion?

DragonLady 24th February 2019 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithrael (Post 12612571)
I donít see that as implying that he can distinguish them on sight either. Itís my (and probably his) opinion that trying to distinguish what someoneís ideology is based on their ethnicity, usually does more harm than good overall. Iím not saying I can do it better than you can. Iím saying nobody can do it effectively. It takes more information than that.

Fine. But then why does it seem like radical Islamic believers are excused if they target Danes because they can't tell which ones are
Quote:

stupid ***** at Jyllands-Posten
and which are not, while no one else is excused if they target Muslims because they can't tell which ones are radical Islamic believers and which are not?

Seems to me it's Pot, meet Kettle. I think it's very unfair to burn those who are willing to defend their beliefs while standing on either side, because no one has a magickal sorting hat.

Quote:

It depends on what ďeating the candy regardlessĒ represents. If it represents a trivial gain in exchange for a small but deadly risk then of course nobody should eat the candy. But if it represents giving other people a chance at being treated like humans in exchange for a small but deadly risk, then the people who are willing to take that risk arenít just being risky idiots for no good reason.

In general, I agree. But I think the operative phrase is:
Quote:

people who are willing to take that risk
.

It should not be thrust upon those who recognize the risk, refuse to take it, and then try to convince others not to gamble, either.

Lithrael 24th February 2019 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonLady (Post 12612612)
It should not be thrust upon those who recognize the risk, refuse to take it, and then try to convince others not to gamble, either.

This comes down to a big difference of opinion on what risks are worth the whole community taking on. There are some genuine but rare severely negative outcomes to, for example, vaccination, yet Iíd still argue itís best for society in general to vaccinate. And itís plain that for every person who is against taking that negligible but real risk, there are hundreds who are against a risk thatís a hype-train bogeyman. Iím not against the argumentís right to be heard, but Iím still firmly in my camp and Iím gonna speak up for my opinion.

In short Iím not against risk management full stop, but Iím against managing risk by avoiding entire ethnicities. I think thatís too harmful to society as a whole.


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