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-   -   9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148049)

dtugg 13th July 2009 01:47 PM

9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4899928)
I am not going to waste an hour or more on writing down my position on the bunnycaust just to find it AH-ed after a couple of hours. Off-topic.

If you really want my position just start a bunnycaust thread and I'll give you my position until it hurts.

Go.

dudalb 13th July 2009 01:53 PM

Rabid Anti Semites Say The Darndest Things!

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:08 PM

My position on the bunnycaust is that I will believe that it happened if somebody can demonstrate it to me that it happened.

In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty very unlike jungles like the US (jungle, because the dudalbs, the dtuggs, the parkys and the finewines are in charge) where the rule is: 'listen pall, we're going to throw you in jail for 4 years. However, if you confess being guilty we'll reduce your sentence to 2 years' ('fleabargain').

So here is my request to the local Israel-Lobby here on this forum (dudalb, dtugg, parky, finewine and a few hundred more): demonstrate to me that 6 million people were gassed in WW2 under the Nazis.


Wait, I'll make it easy for you: prove that only one person was gassed.

Success (you may use a calculator for this exercise).

dtugg 13th July 2009 02:12 PM

So you've got nothing. Why didn't you just say so? And no, I am not interested in teaching basic history to some bigot who won't listen anyway.

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtugg (Post 4900024)
So you've got nothing. Why didn't you just say so? And no, I am not interested in teaching basic history to some bigot who won't listen anyway.

I have more than in your worst nightmares. But I am not going to take the bait. I'll repeat:

Somebody is innocent until proven guilty.

Got that, my kosher friend?

You claim that 6 million jews where gassed. Prove it.

The burden of proof is on you, not me.

And again: let's start with only one Jew, with name and proof that he/she was gassed.

Hint: try the 'caust icon nr 1: Anne Frank.

MG1962 13th July 2009 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900014)

In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty

So the Nuremberg trials where what exactly..........a new family sitcom

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG1962 (Post 4900057)
So the Nuremberg trials where what exactly..........a new family sitcom

A stalinist showtrial. Nothing more.

dtugg 13th July 2009 02:28 PM

The Holocast is a historical fact and has been proven many times over, your heroes, the nazis even admitted it. If you or one of your neo nazi pals wants to say it didn't happen, YOU have to offer proof. And, of course, you have got nothing.

I think that you know it happened. But it is terribly inconvinient to your nazi ideology so you pretend that it didn't. Can't have the jooos being victims can you?

MG1962 13th July 2009 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900069)
A stalinist showtrial. Nothing more.

Wrong answer - You claim innocent till proven guilty....Yet when the guilt is established....it is a show trial

You lose

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG1962 (Post 4900057)
So the Nuremberg trials where what exactly..........a new family sitcom

A stalinist showtrial. Nothing more.

The idea that the victors are judging the vanquished in a court is simply outreageous.

tomwaits 13th July 2009 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900014)

Wait, I'll make it easy for you: prove that only one person was gassed.

What would you accept as proof?

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MG1962 (Post 4900077)
Wrong answer - You claim innocent till proven guilty....Yet when the guilt is established....it is a show trial

Establish that guilt for me, here for everybody to see. Come on then, don't hide behind sophistry. Or admit that you cannot prove it, and that is precisely the case.

FineWine 13th July 2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900043)
I have more than in your worst nightmares. But I am not going to take the bait. I'll repeat:

Somebody is innocent until proven guilty.

Got that, my kosher friend?

You claim that 6 million jews where gassed. Prove it.

The burden of proof is on you, not me.

And again: let's start with only one Jew, with name and proof that he/she was gassed.

Hint: try the 'caust icon nr 1: Anne Frank.


Nobody thinks that Anne Frank was gassed, you lying monster.

Justin39640 13th July 2009 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900014)
My position on the bunnycaust is that I will believe that it happened if somebody can demonstrate it to me that it happened.

In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty very unlike jungles like the US (jungle, because the dudalbs, the dtuggs, the parkys and the finewines are in charge) where the rule is: 'listen pall, we're going to throw you in jail for 4 years. However, if you confess being guilty we'll reduce your sentence to 2 years' ('fleabargain').

So here is my request to the local Israel-Lobby here on this forum (dudalb, dtugg, parky, finewine and a few hundred more): demonstrate to me that 6 million people were gassed in WW2 under the Nazis.


Wait, I'll make it easy for you: prove that only one person was gassed.

Success (you may use a calculator for this exercise).

maybe you should look into it a bit more

what about the other 5 million they executed that werent jewish?
when they shot people in the streets, death marches, etc

this stuff is well documented
id say that you need to prove that a single jew (or political prisoner, gypsy, etc) wasnt killed and how it was fabricated - in your opinion

Justin39640 13th July 2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineWine (Post 4900117)
Nobody thinks that Anne Frank was gassed, you lying monster.

monster is modest

FineWine 13th July 2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900090)
A stalinist showtrial. Nothing more.

The idea that the victors are judging the vanquished in a court is simply outreageous.


The Allied troops who liberated the death camps and found many skeletons and charred remains, but few survivors, were--let me guess--all "lying"?

HeyLeroy 13th July 2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

1. Written documents--Orders for Zyklon-B gas, blueprints and orders for building materials for the crematoria, etc.

2. Eyewitness testimony--Sonderkommando diaries, confessions of guards and commandants, etc.

3. Photographs--Not only of the camps, but especially interesting are the secret photos taken of the burning of bodies that were smuggled out of Auschwitz.

4. The camps themselves--forensic tests have now been conducted demonstrating the homicidal use of both the gas chambers and the crematoria for the express purpose of exterminating large numbers of prisoners (Pressac, 1989; Pressac and Van Pelt, 1994).

5. Negative evidence--we have documentation of the numbers of prisoners shipped to the various camps, the numbers that were transferred, and the number liberated. The difference between the latter with the former two figures gives an approximation of the numbers who died or were killed (see Hilberg, 1961).
Proving the Gas Chambers & Crematoria

dudalb 13th July 2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty very unlike jungles like the US (jungle, because the dudalbs, the dtuggs, the parkys and the finewines are in charge) where the rule is: 'listen pall, we're going to throw you in jail for 4 years. However, if you confess being guilty we'll reduce your sentence to 2 years' ('fleabargain').
I am in charge of the US Government???
Gee, and I am only a GS 11. Wow, am I underpaid.

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtugg (Post 4900072)
The Holocast is a historical fact and has been proven many times over, your heroes, the nazis even admitted it.

Hoess 'confessed' after severe torture but was smart enough to come up with a bogus confession about a non-existing camp (Wolzek). Fortunately Anglos are not very good at geography, so they swallowed it.

But the real trustworthy witnesses, the Red Cross, never noticed anything special about Auschwitz. Quite interesting that the Germans let the Red Cross in the camps, something your buddies, the Soviets, refused in their Gulags.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735

Quote:

If you or one of your neo nazi pals wants to say it didn't happen, YOU have to offer proof. And, of course, you have got nothing.

I think that you know it happened. But it is terribly inconvinient to your nazi ideology so you pretend that it didn't. Can't have the jooos being victims can you?
Haha, it is now plain for everybody to see: dtugg is unable to provide proof.

Now bunnycaust troofer dtugg: give proof or shut up.

dudalb 13th July 2009 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomwaits (Post 4900091)
What would you accept as proof?

Nothing. He is not being driven by logic and evidence, but by hatred of Those Dirty Joos.

dtugg 13th July 2009 02:50 PM

As I said, I am not interested in teaching basic history to neo nazis who will ignore everything inconvinient to their evil ideologoy. But it is very clear that you've got nothing. Thanks for making that clear.

dudalb 13th July 2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900139)
Hoess 'confessed' after severe torture but was smart enough to come up with a bogus confession about a non-existing camp (Wolzek). Fortunately Anglos are not very good at geography, so they swallowed it.

But the real trustworthy witnesses, the Red Cross, never noticed anything special about Auschwitz. Quite interesting that the Germans let the Red Cross in the camps, something your buddies, the Soviets, refused in their Gulags.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735



Haha, it is now plain for everybody to see: dtugg is unable to provide proof.

Now bunnycaust troofer dtugg: give proof or shut up.

Why should he? You would just reject it anyway.
Too bad you were not alive back in 1940-45. You would have made one hell of a Nazi Collabarator. Mussert would have loved you.

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomwaits (Post 4900091)
What would you accept as proof?

The procedure followed around Katyn Forest, when the Germans invited international experts to see with their own eyes that thousands of Polish officiers had been killed by your precious buddies, the Bolsheviks.

If you can show me reports of autopsies of gassed persons carried out by independent witnesses (red cross, Swedes, Swiss) than it would be a different matter.

Again, I do not say it did not happen. I do say I would like to see convincing evidence. You are convinced it happened. You show me.

dudalb 13th July 2009 02:54 PM

Quote:

Again, I do not say it did not happen. I do say I would like to see convincing evidence. You are convinced it happened. You show me.
Ah, look, the Hitler Fanboy is playing semantic games.

tomwaits 13th July 2009 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 4900144)
Nothing. He is not being driven by logic and evidence, but by hatred of Those Dirty Joos.

"What would you accept as proof?" is the question that Michael Shermer asks deniers in his book, and it is a good one. The point is that holocaust deniers will never accept any proof...in their mind it's never good enough, which helps explain the bizarre chant "No holes, no Holocaust!" Their beliefs are non-falsifiable.

It reminds me of that Dave Chappelle sketch where he is a potential juror for the R. Kelly sex trial. He refuses to accept any evidence that R. Kelly was in the video, saying that it may have been some kind of video manipulation. The lawyer asks him what kind of evidence would convince him of R. Kelly's guilt, and he gives an array of unreasonable conditions (ie, R. Kelly's mom and a police officer must also be in the video explicitly stating that the person is, in fact, R. Kelly).

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 4900158)
Why should he? You would just reject it anyway.

How do you know? Give it a try!

Or rather, you have to in order to avoid defeat. Convincing me is one thing. But convincing innocent bystanders is a different matter altogether. These people might start to think that you have no proof whatsoever (and that is indeed the case).

dtugg is going to resent his enormous stupidity of starting this thread in the first place. It's a no-winner. He can only lose. I have been in these kind of threads before in Holland so I know most arguments. And every single post that this thread lives on I'll be able to post links to material that undermines your American self-righteous delusions.

Wait, I might be tempted to write a new blog: howtheholocaustwasdone.blogspot.com

Thunder 13th July 2009 02:59 PM

My great-Aunt, Leah Zimmerman, lost her first husband and 2 children at Birkenau. I don't know if they were gassed or starved to death..but they didn't make it out.

Around 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust and another possible 6 million Gentiles (including Germans) were also killed.

To deny this is to deny a horrible crime.

9/11 Investigator- there are around 6 million missing Jews. Where do you think they went?

there were around 18 million Jews on Earth b4 WW2. The world Jewish population has NEVER recovered to that number.

Wo sind der Juden???

dtugg 13th July 2009 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900174)
Or rather, you have to in order to avoid defeat. Convincing me is one thing. But convincing innocent bystanders is a different matter altogether. These people might start to think that you have no proof whatsoever (and that is indeed the case).

dtugg is going to resent his enormous stupidity of starting this thread in the first place. It's a no-winner. He can only lose.

Perhaps you can convince yourself of this by typing it out, but I can promise that nobody else here is going to buy your evil nonsense.

FineWine 13th July 2009 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900160)
The procedure followed around Katyn Forest, when the Germans invited international experts to see with their own eyes that thousands of Polish officiers had been killed by your precious buddies, the Bolsheviks.

If you can show me reports of autopsies of gassed persons carried out by independent witnesses (red cross, Swedes, Swiss) than it would be a different matter.

Again, I do not say it did not happen. I do say I would like to see convincing evidence. You are convinced it happened. You show me.


Performing autopsies on the ashes raked out of crematoria is bit tricky, monster.

Jungle Jim 13th July 2009 03:13 PM

Mr/Ms 9/11 Investigator: if you are so inclined here is one place to start.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/aus...and-operation/

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parky76 (Post 4900188)
My great-Aunt, Leah Zimmerman, lost her first husband and 2 children at Birkenau. I don't know if they were gassed or starved to death..but they didn't make it out.

I am very sorry to hear that Parky, but that's the issue we are debatting here: how they got killed and how many. Here is a summary of all registered deaths as documented by the Germans themselves and maintained by the ICRC:

http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/...-arolsen-1.jpg

And this is exactly what this english bishop Williamson was talking about: some 200.000 people killed in all German concentration camps, probably some half of them Jews. And that's a lot of people. But most people (according to the revisionists) died because of typhus.

Quote:

9/11 Investigator- there are around 6 million missing Jews. Where do you think they went?

there were around 18 million Jews on Earth b4 WW2. The world Jewish population has NEVER recovered to that number.

Wo sind der Juden???
Most Jews had left Germany before the deportations started. A couple of thousand Jews lived in Palestine before 1940. How many now. 6 million? Where do they come from? How many went to the US. Think of this final scene in Schindlers List about this reunion of many Jews in the US. That's where they went.

But this is all diversions: where are the independent reports of autopsies of gassed people?

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineWine (Post 4900222)
Performing autopsies on the ashes raked out of crematoria is bit tricky, monster.

So that's your proof? Slinging mud?

I was not asking for 6 million autopsies, just one.

HeyLeroy 13th July 2009 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeyLeroy (Post 4900123)
Quote:

1. Written documents--Orders for Zyklon-B gas, blueprints and orders for building materials for the crematoria, etc.

2. Eyewitness testimony--Sonderkommando diaries, confessions of guards and commandants, etc.

3. Photographs--Not only of the camps, but especially interesting are the secret photos taken of the burning of bodies that were smuggled out of Auschwitz.

4. The camps themselves--forensic tests have now been conducted demonstrating the homicidal use of both the gas chambers and the crematoria for the express purpose of exterminating large numbers of prisoners (Pressac, 1989; Pressac and Van Pelt, 1994).

5. Negative evidence--we have documentation of the numbers of prisoners shipped to the various camps, the numbers that were transferred, and the number liberated. The difference between the latter with the former two figures gives an approximation of the numbers who died or were killed (see Hilberg, 1961).
Proving the Gas Chambers & Crematoria

Umm...

9/11-investigator 13th July 2009 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtugg (Post 4900148)
As I said, I am not interested in teaching basic history to neo nazis who will ignore everything inconvinient to their evil ideologoy. But it is very clear that you've got nothing. Thanks for making that clear.

Of course you are not interested in taking the bait because you have nothing to stand on. Only repeating the old lies that are going to be demolished thanks to the internet.

Heh, you can even buy revisionist books on Amazon! Don't you understand that it is game over?

http://www.amazon.com/Debating-Holoc.../dp/1591480051

Yawn, it is late and I'm not expecting any interesting arguments any more.

Twiler 13th July 2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900301)
Of course you are not interested in taking the bait because you have nothing to stand on. Only repeating the old lies that are going to be demolished thanks to the internet.

Heh, you can even buy revisionist books on Amazon! Don't you understand that it is game over?

http://www.amazon.com/Debating-Holoc.../dp/1591480051

Yawn, it is late and I'm not expecting any interesting arguments any more.

Why are you ignoring the list of evidence above, the list that everyone can see?

Stating that you're right is not, in fact, a convincing argument.

FineWine 13th July 2009 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900259)
So that's your proof? Slinging mud?

I was not asking for 6 million autopsies, just one.


It has been established that the Nazi death machine was nothing if not efficient. Prisoners were worked to death (those too sick or weak to work were culled early on), gassed, and their bodies were burned. The perpetrators were not eager to leave behind documentation or physical evidence. Anecdotal evidence, of course, gets hand-waved away by your side, but the experience of one of my best friends, now deceased, is relevant. Her name was Mia Immerman. She was an accomplished painter, and a prominent figure in Holocaust-remembrance groups. Her story is typical. She, a nine-year-old girl, and her parents were on a train in Belgium, attempting to reach France, and from there, England. The SS removed her parents from the train--they were never heard from again--but she managed to hide. Through the help of strangers, she found the home of relatives in Holland. They, too, were rounded up and removed to the camps. She, miraculously, reached England, and years later, America. All of Mia's aunts and uncles, her grandparents, the parents of her childhood friends, the friends themselves--everybody in the closely-knit Jewish community she grew up in--died in the camps.

Perhaps she was lying?

dudalb 13th July 2009 03:47 PM

The Death Machine was one of the few efficient things in Nazi Germany.
Historians have established that one of the reasons Nazi Germany lost the war was that their economic system and war industry was very badly managed...a constant welter of bureacratic infighitng and empire building that badly and probably fatally hurt war production. The idea the Nazi Economic System was wonderfully efficient is a myth .
But, yeah, when it came to pure slaughter Himmler did manage to devise a very good system.

HeyLeroy 13th July 2009 03:51 PM

http://www.holocaust-history.org/kla...hof/T001.shtml

Cl1mh4224rd 13th July 2009 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineWine (Post 4900339)
The perpetrators were not eager to leave behind documentation or physical evidence.


Actually, they did keep pretty good records, as I understand it. One example (from Cracked.com, of all places):

Quote:

Back in those days, the only way to keep track of huge databases was with an extremely complicated system involving punch cards, and IBM was the best at constructing and maintaining those databases. IBM's punch card databases could keep track of anything: financial ledgers, medical records, Jews.

[...]

According to a book a guy wrote about it, as soon as the Nazis invaded a country, they would overhaul the census system using IBM punch cards. Then they'd track down every Jew, Gypsy and any other non-Aryan until they were all rounded up onto cattle carts. And, next stop wasn't Space Mountain.

[...]

That tracked people based on their religion, their location and even how they'd be executed. For instance, Prisoner Code 8 was Jew, Code 11 was Gypsy. Camp Code 001 was Auschwitz; Code 002 was Buchenwald. Status Code 5 was execution by order, and Code 6 was gas chamber. Holy ****, people. Seriously, IBM. What the ****?

Thunder 13th July 2009 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 4900247)


Most Jews had left Germany before the deportations started. A couple of thousand Jews lived in Palestine before 1940. How many now. 6 million? Where do they come from? How many went to the US. Think of this final scene in Schindlers List about this reunion of many Jews in the US. That's where they went.

wrong...wrong...wrong.

about 300,000 Jews remained in Germany by the time the ability to leave was ended.

before ww2, poland had around 3 million jews. after ww2, only around 300,000 remained. only 3,000 remained in Germany.

where did the missing 2.7 million Polish Jews go? they didnt go to Israel..and they didnt go to the USA. only 300,000 Polish Jews came to Israel. less went to the USA.

Ukraine is also missing about one million Jews. again, they did not go to the USA or Israel.

the only nation in Europe has had a net gain of Jews, after WW2, was Bulgaria, and that was by only 35,000. every other nation lost Jews..and many lost a whooooole lot.

that is, unless, you believe Israel is completely LYING about their population and immigration records.

thats one huge Zionist hoax!!!!! Israel really has 9 million Jews!!

I wish.


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