"Jihadi John" named

Information Analyst

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BBC News: IS militant 'Jihadi John' named as Mohammed Emwazi from London

"The masked Islamic State militant known as "Jihadi John", who has been pictured in the videos of the beheadings of Western hostages, has been named.

The BBC understands he is Mohammed Emwazi, a Kuwaiti-born British man in his mid-20s from west London, who was known to UK security services.

They chose not to disclose his name earlier for operational reasons.

Emwazi first appeared in a video last August, when he apparently killed the American journalist James Foley.

He was later thought to have been pictured in the videos of the beheadings of US journalist Steven Sotloff, British aid worker David Haines, British taxi driver Alan Henning, and American aid worker Abdul-Rahman Kassig, also known as Peter."
 
IMHO, when you cut the head off a noncombatant you've gone far beyond the realm of "militant".
 
Craig B said:
Does that mean he has been killed or apprehended?
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I think the operational reasons that are being cited are the hostages whose identities were also being protected. Presumably it's not an issue now that they are all dead or released with the exception of John Cantlie who the authorities may have decided is either not at risk or no longer their concern.
 
Polaris said:
IMHO, when you cut the head off a noncombatant you've gone far beyond the realm of "militant".
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Actually at that point you are a war criminal with three four counts against you......

If you are lucky you get hanged, I hope you do not get lucky.
 
UK TV News all had reporters and cameras broadcasting live from outside a house he used to live in with nice close up shots of the door and windows.

What is the point of that?
 
dudalb said:
Emwazi has just gone to the top of the Navy Seals "to do" list.
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Mark6 said:
I think SAS should have dibs on him.
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Information Analyst said:
He's probably been there for a long time. And the SAS's. There's an interesting discussion to be had in who gets first dibs on slotting him.
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Yeah, unfortunately if this were the case it would have been the case months ago when there were hostages still alive who could be saved by having either bumped off by special forces or a drone. The special forces would have made more sense in a rescue operation, not so much now, I would have though. IANAG.
 
angrysoba said:
Yeah, unfortunately if this were the case it would have been the case months ago when there were hostages still alive who could be saved by having either bumped off by special forces or a drone. The special forces would have made more sense in a rescue operation, not so much now, I would have though. IANAG.
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At any rate, whether an Operator punches his ticket or a JDAM turns him into paste, let's dispense with the horse **** about "observing Islamic traditions" like with OBL. Just post a pic of his carcass (or better yet, video of him becoming so) to head off the conspiracy theories and toss what's left of him in a sewer when we get around to it.
 
Polaris said:
At any rate, whether an Operator punches his ticket or a JDAM turns him into paste, let's dispense with the horse **** about "observing Islamic traditions" like with OBL. Just post a pic of his carcass (or better yet, video of him becoming so) to head off the conspiracy theories and toss what's left of him in a sewer when we get around to it.
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Why this disgusting barbarism? Do you want to compete in horror pics with ISIS? Are we not supposed to be more civilised than they are? In fact most of us are more civilised, which makes all this gloating about torturing live people and mutilating dead ones all the more reprehensible.

And video of people being put to death, and then being mutilated and degraded: whose cinematic tastes does that remind us of, if not the very people being rightly denounced in these threads?
 
Craig B said:
Why this disgusting barbarism? Do you want to compete in horror pics with ISIS? Are we not supposed to be more civilised than they are? In fact most of us are more civilised, which makes all this gloating about torturing live people and mutilating dead ones all the more reprehensible.

And video of people being put to death, and then being mutilated and degraded: whose cinematic tastes does that remind us of, if not the very people being rightly denounced in these threads?
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Right, because wishing to see poetic justice dished out to monsters who cut the heads off children for not converting religions is exactly the same as doing the cutting. :rolleyes:

I said nothing about torture or mutilation - that's all in your head, amigo. But I do want to see every member of ISIS die of unnatural causes, and to hell with how they want their remains dealt with. It was a mistake with bin Laden and it'd be a mistake with this garbage as well. We hear all the time about how they aren't true Muslims and don't represent Islam - why jump through the Islamic hoops for terrorist carrion then? Are they suddenly Muslims when they're dead? You can't have it both ways.
 
Polaris said:
Right, because wishing to see poetic justice dished out to monsters who cut the heads off children for not converting religions is exactly the same as doing the cutting. :rolleyes:
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It's not poetic and it's not "justice" which is that people answer in legal process for their crimes. If that can't be done in this case, it's no cause for gloating, but for regret.
Polaris said:
I said nothing about torture or mutilation - that's all in your head, amigo.
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No, amigo, you didn't say it, but it's not in my head, amigo. I know fuelair's views on torture, which he has expressed in the Forum often enough, to know what he meant by this, in a reply to one of your posts.
fuelair said:
If you are lucky you get hanged, I hope you do not get lucky.
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Polaris said:
But I do want to see every member of ISIS die of unnatural causes, and to hell with how they want their remains dealt with. It was a mistake with bin Laden and it'd be a mistake with this garbage as well. We hear all the time about how they aren't true Muslims and don't represent Islam - why jump through the Islamic hoops for terrorist carrion then? Are they suddenly Muslims when they're dead? You can't have it both ways.
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This has nothing to do with people being Muslims. It would apply to anyone at all. If something is being done out of pure vindictiveness or to slake impulses of sadism, it shouldn't be done.
 
Polaris said:
Right, because wishing to see poetic justice dished out to monsters who cut the heads off children for not converting religions is exactly the same as doing the cutting. :rolleyes:

I said nothing about torture or mutilation - that's all in your head, amigo. But I do want to see every member of ISIS die of unnatural causes, and to hell with how they want their remains dealt with. It was a mistake with bin Laden and it'd be a mistake with this garbage as well. We hear all the time about how they aren't true Muslims and don't represent Islam - why jump through the Islamic hoops for terrorist carrion then? Are they suddenly Muslims when they're dead? You can't have it both ways.
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In all fairness, he more likely means me on the slow, very painful, attention getting, demonstrating how naughty the POS was to him death. I feel no need at all to be sorry for hoping for such for all in the categories I have mentioned in numerous threads where and in other places. Just killing them is acceptable - especially if safer for those who get them - but I truly prefer they know some at least of what their victims felt and thought.
 
fuelair said:
In all fairness, he more likely means me on the slow, very painful, attention getting, demonstrating how naughty the POS was to him death. I feel no need at all to be sorry for hoping for such for all in the categories I have mentioned in numerous threads where and in other places. Just killing them is acceptable - especially if safer for those who get them - but I truly prefer they know some at least of what their victims felt and thought.
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Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks, fuelair.
 
Craig B said:
It's not poetic and it's not "justice" which is that people answer in legal process for their crimes. If that can't be done in this case, it's no cause for gloating, but for regret. No, amigo, you didn't say it, but it's not in my head, amigo. I know fuelair's views on torture, which he has expressed in the Forum often enough, to know what he meant by this, in a reply to one of your posts. This has nothing to do with people being Muslims. It would apply to anyone at all. If something is being done out of pure vindictiveness or to slake impulses of sadism, it shouldn't be done.
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Just a minor point. You are removing from sadism it's major component with statements like this so I am going to assume that deviant (no offense to those who play bdsm) behavior is not a field with which you are acquainted. Sadism is very specifically an act committed to gain sexual release for the perpetrator of it. I assure you that the only satisfaction I would get from the things I have spoken of is a moral one - the knowledge that something evil has been removed having gained full and undeniable evidence/understanding of that evil in the process. YMMV, mine does not.

Also, with such evil, I am missing what is wrong with vindictiveness.
 
fuelair said:
Just a minor point. You are removing from sadism it's major component with statements like this so I am going to assume that deviant (no offense to those who play bdsm) behavior is not a field with which you are acquainted. Sadism is very specifically an act committed to gain sexual release for the perpetrator of it. I assure you that the only satisfaction I would get from the things I have spoken of is a moral one - the knowledge that something evil has been removed having gained full and undeniable evidence/understanding of that evil in the process. YMMV, mine does not.

Also, with such evil, I am missing what is wrong with vindictiveness.
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Sadism simply means deriving pleasure from inflicting suffering on people. It may also include sexual pleasure, but it need not be.
 
fuelair said:
Sadism is very specifically an act committed to gain sexual release for the perpetrator of it. I assure you that the only satisfaction I would get from the things I have spoken of is a moral one.
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That is not its only or very specific meaning. It's the predominant meaning, but the word IS used in other contexts.
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.
3. Extreme cruelty.
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There is no word meaning "the tendency to derive moral gratification from the inflicting of pain on others" as you are perhaps the only person to possess such a tendency. So you'll have to invent a word yourself.
fuelair said:
Also, with such evil, I am missing what is wrong with vindictiveness.
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Given your unique moral attributes, it's mildly surprising that you can see nothing wrong with vindictiveness.
 
Craig B said:
It's not poetic and it's not "justice" which is that people answer in legal process for their crimes. If that can't be done in this case, it's no cause for gloating, but for regret. No, amigo, you didn't say it, but it's not in my head, amigo. I know fuelair's views on torture, which he has expressed in the Forum often enough, to know what he meant by this, in a reply to one of your posts. This has nothing to do with people being Muslims. It would apply to anyone at all. If something is being done out of pure vindictiveness or to slake impulses of sadism, it shouldn't be done.
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Vindictiveness - better words are retribution or revenge - is a key part of justice systems worldwide. You may not like it, but pretty much everybody else in the world does. When victims cry "we want justice" what they really mean is "we want revenge." Justice in that case is simply a euphemism for revenge that most people agree is fair and appropriate.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Vindictiveness - better words are retribution or revenge - is a key part of justice systems worldwide. You may not like it, but pretty much everybody else in the world does. When victims cry "we want justice" what they really mean is "we want revenge." Justice in that case is simply a euphemism for revenge that most people agree is fair and appropriate.
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The shrinks don't agree. Read this.

But probably they're all Liberal do gooders anyway.
 
Craig B said:
The shrinks don't agree. Read this.
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That article is not responsive to my point at all. It is trying to distinguish personal retribution from state sanctioned, dispassionate retribution. State sanctioned retribution is better, for many of the reasons noted (particularly the one about preventing a cycle of revenge), but it is still retribution. It is a part of our system of criminal justice system, and a very important part too. Otherwise, we would allow certain kinds of people to escape incarceration for horrific crimes, since the other goals of the criminal justice system (i.e. compensation, deterrence, protection of society, and rehabilitation) do not necessarily require incarceration (and in fact incarceration even impedes compensation and rehabilitation).

But probably they're all Liberal do gooders anyway.
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Probably. I'll note that the author undermines his own credibility with the following aside:
The punishment may fit the crime, but it’s often an exaggerated response to another’s perceived offense. (And I use the qualifier “perceived” purposely here. For take the Florida case of George Zimmerman’s fatal 2012 shooting of Trayvon Martin. Not only does such an instance exemplify the wrongheadedness sometimes linked to vigilante justice but, as many (if not most) people would agree, Zimmerman’s ultimate acquittal represented a serious miscarriage of justice—especially in light of the gunman’s anti-social conduct and legal infractions subsequent to the case.)
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What nonsense. Does anybody actually believe that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to punish him? And what are his reasons for thinking that the failure to punish Zimmerman was a miscarriage of justice? What is it because jail time would have rehabilitated Zimmerman or protected society from him or compensated Martin's family in some way? Or is it rather the failure to get revenge on Zimmerman. The author is contradicting your argument with that aside right there.
 
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