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Search: Posts Made By: stanfr
Forum: Non-USA & General Politics 16th February 2024, 01:05 PM
Replies: 55
Views: 1,437
Posted By stanfr
Was he vaccinated? :)

Was he vaccinated? :)
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 07:30 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Meh, once we are all dead and become food for the...

Meh, once we are all dead and become food for the bugs, no one will care anyways. Well...I will, cause im hoping I get to feed a really cool bug :blush:
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 07:24 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
That's why I qualified by saying 'certain...

That's why I qualified by saying 'certain things'. I was talking about joyful puppy killing, not a full blown discussion of how one evaluates tricky moral questions, like whether the bombing of...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 07:06 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
True, but that just kicks the can down the road...

True, but that just kicks the can down the road because then you have to determine how that criteria came into being. Is it just a societal norm, or is it more universal. I would argue that if one...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 05:56 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Short answer: I don't know. I don't know how the...

Short answer: I don't know. I don't know how the universe came into existence either, but I know it came into existed (or has existed forever)--Je pence, donc je suis! I believe it is objective...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 02:57 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Where we disagree is on where you are getting...

Where we disagree is on where you are getting that 'value' from. You are saying it is purely internal and subjective, I am saying there could be an external objective basis for that value. Otherwise,...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 10:54 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
:D:thumbsup:

:D:thumbsup:
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 10:53 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
It's certainly bad for the sun, and bad for us,...

It's certainly bad for the sun, and bad for us, since we would all die. That's not a challenging conclusion.


Ugh. Again, you are conflating bad as a synonym for immoral. I am not using it that...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 10:39 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Somehow this led to a full blown debate about the...

Somehow this led to a full blown debate about the objectivity of morality. But it makes sense, cause how do you measure if something (Ukraine, Israel) is "good" or "bad" --"wrong" or "right" unless...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 10:22 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
NO, it is an intersection of those two things,...

NO, it is an intersection of those two things, society and the individual, it is not one or the other.


All you are demonstrating is that capitalism is doing some horrible things, I don't...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 10:12 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
I have no idea what you are saying here (typos,...

I have no idea what you are saying here (typos, maybe?)


Not if you take the idea of subjectivity too far, which is what I claim you have done. Then the planet Mars only exists because we...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 28th January 2024, 10:01 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Ugh. I get your confusion, I'm just not buying...

Ugh. I get your confusion, I'm just not buying it. You are conflating good-bad with moral-immoral. A dog's suffering is no different than people's suffering in the sense that yes, aside from our...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 27th January 2024, 08:10 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
If morality is objective, then the highlighted is...

If morality is objective, then the highlighted is meaningless. What is true for a particular group is irrelevant. If slavery is "morally true" for a group, that doesn't make slavery moral-it's still...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 27th January 2024, 07:59 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Well, As I just said to Roboramma--suppose AI...

Well, As I just said to Roboramma--suppose AI does become sentient and develops its own moral code. Is that code still coming from our 'mental states'? If you take subjectivity to the extreme, then...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 27th January 2024, 07:50 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Wink Yes, I completely agree! that's how it...

Yes, I completely agree!


that's how it came off to me...



Absolutely!
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 08:19 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
I'm somewhere in between. As I've said, I don't...

I'm somewhere in between. As I've said, I don't think morality is a mathematical equation necessarily (maybe AI will figure that one out) but I also don't think it is necessarily confined to ones...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 07:46 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
I'm not ignoring it, I'm just putting less...

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just putting less emphasis on it.

Let me try to clarify using the example I mentioned earlier, cause it's a classic. The bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

Was it...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 11:46 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Yep, I was using definition 1, you were using 2....

Yep, I was using definition 1, you were using 2. I dont agree with your conclusion that (2) is more appopriate. The OP is about making black and white conclusions about subjects that are really...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 11:35 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
We are just disagreeing about the semantics. The...

We are just disagreeing about the semantics. The killing is wrong, period. Justification doesn't even enter into the picture. Just as the bombing of Hiroshima was 'wrong' regardless of whether it...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 11:21 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Their intent was moral, if misguided. The act...

Their intent was moral, if misguided. The act could be immoral depending on the precise facts. What I am saying is the act is to be differentiated from the intentions.



False dichotomy. But...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 11:09 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Don't worry, watch enough Star Trek and you will...

Don't worry, watch enough Star Trek and you will become convinced that we are on the right track. Even those commies the Borg are capable of redemption!:p
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 11:06 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Interesting perspective! I disagree to some...

Interesting perspective! I disagree to some extent (I said above I am a proud commie but also ok with benevolent capitalism) Where we disagree is the highlighted. While one could point to the...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 10:58 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
In that sense, 'morality' is subjective (We...

In that sense, 'morality' is subjective (We agree!) but I still say that does not mean their 'moral codes' are good or justified. Semantics...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 10:51 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
OK,ninjad, i just cant keep up with this thread.:(

OK,ninjad, i just cant keep up with this thread.:(
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 10:49 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Again, I didn't say "society" I said in the case...

Again, I didn't say "society" I said in the case of criminalization, you are *harming* the criminalized person--whether by fining them, killing them or whatever. It is pretty much a fact that when...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 10:45 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Not completely, cause I didn't say anything about...

Not completely, cause I didn't say anything about society, I am talking about specific actions.



I'm a proud commie but I think capitalism has its benefits, just not the run-amok capitalism we...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 09:51 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Google is your friend here. Google 'is society...

Google is your friend here. Google 'is society becoming less violent' and even if you like to search for violent things, I am betting the vast majority of factually based sources (first one that came...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 09:47 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
They are coming to what most people would call an...

They are coming to what most people would call an 'objective' decision. You might call it 'subjective' since it is not based on a strict application of mathematical formulas, but the law sees it as...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 09:40 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
You are introducing facts I did not introduce....

You are introducing facts I did not introduce. Those are mitigating factors. They don't change the fact that "unjustified" killing is *wrong* Our legal system has a billion laws to deal with how we...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 09:37 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
You are discussing the gray areas, I'm addressing...

You are discussing the gray areas, I'm addressing the point of this thread, which is that those grey areas are polarized by society into black and white. I think we both agree on that. Our only...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 26th January 2024, 09:25 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Fair enough! But everything "carries a religious...

Fair enough! But everything "carries a religious connotation" like what existed before the big bang. I'm perfectly happy saying "nature (ie, mass, energy) existed, rather than 'god' but if you wanna...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 02:56 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
That's a fair question and I think the answer is...

That's a fair question and I think the answer is worthy of a whole book, too bad I don't have time to write it. But in a nutshell, as others have pointed out, natural selection in general does not...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 02:47 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Yes it is! And yet, we send people away for life...

Yes it is! And yet, we send people away for life by getting a group of their peers together to make a factual determination of a person's subjective perception!
Amazing, aint it? It's almost as if...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 02:43 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Well your example is great because it shows why...

Well your example is great because it shows why semantics get in the way of people actually agreeing. 'Murder' is typically (not always) used in a legal context, so it most definitely is defined by...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 02:36 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
I was referring to my specific example, not...

I was referring to my specific example, not 'killing in general' Those tribes you referred to still would have found my example 'wrong'!

And whether it is 'effective' or not is irrelevant or to...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 02:21 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Thats a bit of an overreach, since that 'specific...

Thats a bit of an overreach, since that 'specific individual' is the fittest, therefore there survival passes along the 'fittest' genes. And female lions will not be receptive to mating while they...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 01:53 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Completer rubbish. You contradict yourself. You...

Completer rubbish. You contradict yourself. You cannot, repeat CANNOT say that it is "a demonstrable *fact*" that people are "good" and then say in the same breath that the concept of good is...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 01:40 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Even ants demonstrate behavior that is socially...

Even ants demonstrate behavior that is socially cooperative, although no one is calling that ant morality to my knowledge lol. There are whole books on the subject of animal 'morality' maybe you...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 09:56 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Thanks for your thoughtful response--I can relate...

Thanks for your thoughtful response--I can relate to it because I was raised Catholic but am an atheist. Your answer is in good part *why* I am an atheist. You are making the exact same argument that...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 25th January 2024, 09:37 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
It's not that just you or I disagree with it, it...

It's not that just you or I disagree with it, it is that every human-wide notion of morality disagrees with it. From Plato to Kant and beyond. It violates the basic standards of the golden rule, the...
Forum: USA Politics 24th January 2024, 11:20 PM
Replies: 32
Views: 1,302
Posted By stanfr
Ick...the comments to that old video are...

Ick...the comments to that old video are nauseating :boggled:
She is straight out of the Trump playbook and she is trying to ride the recent Trump wins with her own strategic 'im gonna drain the...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 10:37 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Of course it does! That's the definition of...

Of course it does! That's the definition of 'objective'!

I guess your definition of 'objective' is different than mine. I go by the commonly accepted definition of something that is determined by...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 10:00 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
I would agree with that. That's what makes...

I would agree with that. That's what makes looking at animal behavior so interesting from a human societal perspective. On the one hand, you have predators showing no mercy to prey, (or even their...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 09:10 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Possibly. In theory something like Covid, or at...

Possibly. In theory something like Covid, or at least a more lethal bug, should wipe them all out. But then all the damn empaths intervene and save their dumbasses....
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 08:19 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Fascinating subject! Do you think 'morality' is...

Fascinating subject! Do you think 'morality' is inheritable?
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 08:15 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
And who/what decides where the line is between...

And who/what decides where the line is between 'complex' and 'basic'?

I do think that since evil-good is a spectrum, there are certainly some grey areas, but even then, the underlying principles...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 08:03 PM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
I didn't dismiss them and i never said 'mere' or...

I didn't dismiss them and i never said 'mere' or that they were simple. Do you think shooting a guy's brains out for the fun of it is objectively evil?
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 11:09 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Take the following simple example: A man...

Take the following simple example:

A man walks up to another man randomly on the street, says "I don't like you" and proceeds to pull out a gun and shoot the other man in the face, blowing his...
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 10:58 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
That's fine, I never claimed it had a plan. We...

That's fine, I never claimed it had a plan. We don't plan for what good or evil is either, it just is :)
Forum: Social Issues & Current Events 24th January 2024, 10:48 AM
Replies: 300
Views: 4,826
Posted By stanfr
Hurray. I think i'm gonna go to the gym now to...

Hurray. I think i'm gonna go to the gym now to support my metabolism and hopefully live a few more decades.
ETA: note that I did not use the word 'select'--Roboramma did.
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