Desert Fox
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That is not how any court is suppose to work and is basically "Trust me, they are guilty."
Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case
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That is not how any court is suppose to work and is basically "Trust me, they are guilty."
Strozzi
Graduate Poster
Google will not let you translate their own pages
Probably doesn't matter because Pawn Shops in the US record enough info that they can track you down later. . . .
Even recycling records personal information - I recycle my aluminum cans and every time I bring them in, they take info off your DL and get a thumb print.
I would think that they do the same thing in Italy (or something similar)
Are you kidding? In Italy? They don't even impound a stolen laptop or lady's gold watch from someone detained for tresspass or burglary!
acbytesla
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I worked as an IT broker, if it was serialized, we recorded it. Motherboard, disk drives, interface boards. But we did a lot of buying Full servers and breaking it down into components and sold the components.
That's why Rudy probably thought twice about stealing any of the electronic equipment after he killed Meredith. Why would he want something that could tie him to her murdeR?
Desert Fox
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I hate buying from you guys because at least with hard drives I lose the warranty. Bought a 500 GB drive recently for a friend and it was listed as new but was a "pull."
Desert Fox
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Business owners are often smarter than the cops.
acbytesla
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Really? I had some very good customers and it was all about saving my customers money. Warranties were rarely an issue since most of my customers were big IT shops that had maintenance contracts so even though it might be used, they put it on their maintenance contracts and it's covered. So if their smart, they didn't care. Also, believe it or not, most failures with electronic equipment happen during the burn in period. I'd never misrepresent what I sold, but we also bought a lot of new equipment and we broke that down as well. New can be a pull. If you want NIB (New in Box) ask for it. But frankly for customers with maintenance it's a big waste of money. But I also had customers who would buy interface cards and cpus but never drives. Drives eventually fail. But the other stuff almost never.
Desert Fox
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I got a Netbook where the hard drive died and the owner did not want to pay me to put a new drive in and redo his OS. Netbooks are a pain to take a part.
I ended up giving him $20 for the machine, putting a 500 GB, and putting Ubuntu on it. I did upgrade RAM from 1 GB to 2GB and did buy "pulled" RAM.
Mainly is with hard drives I really want to know if they still carry their warranty.
Maybe Rudi could have stripped out his stolen computers and sold for parts?
acbytesla
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The cheaper the item DF the less sense it makes. I never sold Netbooks and virtually no stand alone PC or laptops. I sold Servers, their components and datacom equipment. Where the customer was buying a $500 drive and 5 thousand dollar CPU Board. Or a 100,000 Cisco switch.
If you asked me for a Netbook, a PC or a laptop I'd send you to Best Buy or Dell.
Desert Fox
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It seems like no matter how we argue this though, chances are that Rudy would have gotten very little for any computers he stole.
The woman's watch might have been an item he could have sold easily.
Desktops does seem strange. I have been given a few desktops which I then got working. The thing is though that I have a car. Did he just around the streets carrying a desktop?
acbytesla
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Now you are on to the conundrum. Personal Computers really isn't a very good market and it's got worse and worse. People want that portability. I think the ability even in 2007 to sell a stand alone pc is not going to be very good. Not unless it has some smoking hot processor, Rudy is not going to get much money for it.
Grinder points to this and declares that Rudy is a "fence" A fence is a guy who buys stolen goods that he can "sell". As an IT broker, I had all the tools to help me follow the value of computer components. And believe me the prices fluctuate like you wouldn't believe....Almost always dropping in price. I had about a million dollars in stock at any times but I never stocked anything that I didn't buy at what I thought was a killer price..because I had to be able to sell it to other brokers.
I would imagine, that there really aren't many "fences" that are buying PCs. They want "artwork" and jewelry, not personal computers.
A long time ago someone suggested that there might have been information on that lawyer's computer that was the actual target. It makes as much sense as anything else that Guede did, right? Local politicians looking to blackmail each other, using a petty thief to gather data ala the Watergate burglars?
He's the only one who knows all the answers. It would be so great if he told.
Can he do that? Does Italy have any way of punishing him more if he spills the beans about how he killed Meredith?
He's the only one who knows all the answers. It would be so great if he told.
Can he do that? Does Italy have any way of punishing him more if he spills the beans about how he killed Meredith?
Bill Williams
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You know me, I love a conspiracy. There was something about Filomena's computer where she was willing (apparently) to go retrieve it from behind a police line.
Then again I think I'd do that just for that I'd get the shakes with no computer!
My guess is he is a psychological mess, and scarcely able to comprehend the enormity of his crime as it dismantles families, lives, and fortunes beyond just Meredith. What a glorious day when he confesses everything. At the moment he is too ashamed to take his day leave.
That's my thinking, I know others will disagree.
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RWVBWL
Master Poster
LMT
Greetings,
The website is no longer around, Kwill,
that wrote of the details of the lawyers, the Perugian drug scene, etc.
But it was written about as you recall...
It was written by a few different people, (from what LMT wrote to me on The Old Perugia Shock discussions under FS's postings) who did much investigative reporting, at this website:
http://alternatetheories-perugiamurder.blogspot.com/
Man,
there was soooo much info at that blog, yet I've not been able to dig any of it up, though I've tried to a few different ways. You folks would luv, I bet to learn more of the local Perugia scene back then, it'd be great to read of RandyN, Grinder, Anglo, Bill Williams, Tesla, Strozie, Desert Fox, Samson, Kwill and my other online debating friends dissect this info about the lawyers office, the drug scene,
their Left-handed Murderer Theories .
Maybe someone, somewhere has it archived(*)...
RW
(*) - Man,
I got soooo lucky the other day,
an old website that I sometimes participated on about sharks and sharks attacks was taken off-line by the owner a few years ago. But it's back online again, as I found out a coupla days ago! YEA!!! I am sooo stoked, because there is alotta info in that blogs forum postings that I need for my research into a subject that I'm very curious about.
http://sharks77551.yuku.com/reply/79358/1989-Latigo-kayakers-shark-attack#reply-79358
Now I just gotta get it copied!!!
Gosh,
I hope that someone, somewhere can re-post online LMT's old blog:
http://alternatetheories-perugiamurder.blogspot.com/
Greetings,
The website is no longer around, Kwill,
that wrote of the details of the lawyers, the Perugian drug scene, etc.
But it was written about as you recall...
It was written by a few different people, (from what LMT wrote to me on The Old Perugia Shock discussions under FS's postings) who did much investigative reporting, at this website:
http://alternatetheories-perugiamurder.blogspot.com/
Man,
there was soooo much info at that blog, yet I've not been able to dig any of it up, though I've tried to a few different ways. You folks would luv, I bet to learn more of the local Perugia scene back then, it'd be great to read of RandyN, Grinder, Anglo, Bill Williams, Tesla, Strozie, Desert Fox, Samson, Kwill and my other online debating friends dissect this info about the lawyers office, the drug scene,
their Left-handed Murderer Theories .
Maybe someone, somewhere has it archived(*)...
RW
(*) - Man,
I got soooo lucky the other day,
an old website that I sometimes participated on about sharks and sharks attacks was taken off-line by the owner a few years ago. But it's back online again, as I found out a coupla days ago! YEA!!! I am sooo stoked, because there is alotta info in that blogs forum postings that I need for my research into a subject that I'm very curious about.
http://sharks77551.yuku.com/reply/79358/1989-Latigo-kayakers-shark-attack#reply-79358
Now I just gotta get it copied!!!
Gosh,
I hope that someone, somewhere can re-post online LMT's old blog:
http://alternatetheories-perugiamurder.blogspot.com/
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Desert Fox
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I agree that there may be another agenda, given the extremely poor prosecution case (staged break in clearly not proven; dubious DNA); but I think the agenda has been alluded to. I think that it is partly a national pride - Italian scientists have nothing to learn from foreigners. I think it is partly concern that if they accept that the LCN DNA testing for improperly collected samples, by an ill equipped lab, without appropriate controls is accepted in this case, then it has repercussions in other cases.
There is nothing intrinsically bad about Italian engineering or science. I think that the issue is that of a state institution; the Scientific Police who seem to be on a fixed budget (according to Stephanoni), and run by the police (the head of the laboratory was a police officer rather than a scientist). The result being an ethos of delivering results to support the police taking priority over independent scientific opinion. The Italian argument would be that the ability to observe the test by the defence substitutes for independence, but this still leaves the decision on testing in the police hands. Thus we see that the hair samples reported as found were not tested (would need mitochondrial DNA testing), there was no fibre testing, the blood in the room could have been tested to see if there was an Y contribution (was there some blood from the injuries on Guede's hands, as a minor contributor this would be difficult to test conventionally but looking for Y typing could pick this up). As we know the defence were refused permission for testing the suspected semen stain, and the raw data for DNA testing was never disclosed. Not testing the hair found on the broken window testing for a Y contribution to blood etc. all limited the defences ability to demonstrate Guede's involvement which would contribute to the defence case.
The scientific police investigated to find evidence of Knox's and Sollecito's guilt, but if they were acting as an independent body they should equally have looked for evidence of innocence, and they failed to do that.
In Scotland there is an argument that the new state forensic laboratory must not be co-located with police services to avoid contaminating the assumptions of the scientists, no chance of quiet chats in the canteen etc.
Dan O.
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Aiken77, there are more explanations for the dna evidence, accidental or deliberate contamination and so on, than there are for a multitude of other irreconcilable elements in the crime. For example it is now a court fact that Raffaele has an alibi till 9 26 pm plus however long it might take to get there. Nencini has written this in his report, though he said about 9 20, knowing full well that he was fudging the time to his advantage. Unfortunately he neglected to educate himself on simple pathology, which guarantees the victim was dead by this time. You can research this with great ease on the internet, that if you eat at 6 30, your gastric emptying will begin at 9pm at the very latest. The victim's gastric emptying had yet to commence, so she probably died very soon after she was last confirmed alive.
It is also impossible to forensically simulate the break in, so it was real. This was a false assumption foisted on the Italian people from day one. It has been completely disproved by multiple physical realities.
Deliberate evidence tampering is commonplace to secure a conviction where it is believed other evidence proves guilt but the prosecution want it nailed home hard. Unfortunately in this case the other evidence actually proves innocence, so wrongful convictions were the result.
Fortunately Judge Hellmann (who is a real live human being) could see this easily.
Welcome to the forum.
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Welcome happy to discuss.
My argument was that the forensic scientists should be independent. This is a problem everywhere that the forensic scientists tend to identify with the police and lose neutrality. They should not be defence or prosecution. The independent court appointed opinion was that the technique was not available to them to reliably test a LCN sample. Subsequently it became available to the carabinieri. The sample was tested, it favoured the defence.
Scientific research is exactly what forensic scientists do. They research a crime scene using scientific techniques. They absolutely do science. If they do not do science then they might as well be dowsing.
I think you fail to understand the raw data refers to the electronic output of the analyser, never disclosed, not the limited paper records disclosed.
The case against Guede would have been solid without DNA - the bloody handprint places him there at the time and provides identity.The shoe prints help. That his friend reported him to the police as being the murderer, and Guede admitted being present assists. I think that in the absence of DNA Guede would have been convicted.
I do not believe in a conspiracy, just incompetence. I do not think MK DNA was on the knife in Sollecito's flat. (In any case this is only evidence against Sollecito not Knox). I think there was no DNA on the sample taken from the blade (supported by the test showing no detectable DNA). I think there was in laboratory contamination, the negative controls were not reported as having been processed through for typing. I think these would have confirmed contamination. Without the result of the negative controls the test is uninterpretable. We only know the controls were run, not the result.
If you do sufficient tests you get a false positive. There is always a danger to repeating tests until you get the answer you want. This is what happened here. The first crime scene analysis found only Guede, so they did more tests.
Contamination is a reality in DNA work. A single small sample of contaminated DNA (the multiple Ys) on the hook with no other DNA of Sollecito on the bra does not fit a logical scenario. The hook is not a part of the bra that gets touched easily. Why no DNA elsewhere? Why no DNA or blood from MK on Sollecito? We do not know who the other Y chromosomes were from; MK's boyfriend was not matched to them. Nencini just alleged this with no evidence. Why are there multiple Y chromosome results if not a contaminated sample? The sample must be contaminated. Therefore the question is whether the sample of Sollecito DNA (and I accept Sollecito DNA was on the hook) arose from direct contact or secondary contact. It is impossible to say for certain. I think in the broader scenario the most likely explanation is secondary transfer. Prof. Gill one of the inventors of forensic DNA techniques also says this.
anglolawyer
Banned
Nobody objected to the independent experts decision not to test 36I until it turned out their conclusions were not favourable to the prosecution. You might like to explain why Stefanoni didn't test that part of the knife either if the results are supposed to be incriminating.
Care to put some dates on that? And maybe also say exactly what you mean by 'raw data'? On 5th April 2011 the experts in the case signed this memorandum:
These electronic files have not been disclosed. Can you think of a good reason why not?
Rudy was professionally represented. It was open to him to contest the DNA evidence against him. Do you happen to know whether he did?
Can you offer a cite to support the highlighted claims? To advance the conversation a little, let's record that the bra clasp was effectively destroyed as evidence by being improperly stored and that such tests as we know of on the knife blade showed the 'sample' consisted of nothing at all.
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