Deeper than primes - Continuation

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Science marches forward. Gunpowder. Biological weapons. Chemical weapons. Nuclear power.
My view is as follows:

An healthy organism survives as long as it does not use its organs against each other.

According to Organic Mathematics, there is a common foundation to the universe, which enables it to be developed as a consistent realm that eventfully enables to achieve actual harmony among its phenomena, such that each phenomenon acts like an organ of the same organism.

War or peace is derived from people's minds, so in order to avoid self-made destruction by further scientific developments, we have to discover within each one of us the common foundation that naturally enables each mind to be aware of other minds as organs of the common foundation.

The discovery is done by using both theory (discussing about the common foundation) and practice (directly be aware of the common foundation, which is the unified source of any given phenomenon, within and without us).

Without actually achieve Unity awareness (the awareness of each organ to the common foundation, which enables organs to act as a one organism) we shell not survive further discoveries and manipulations of Nature's forces, exactly because we will still get each other as potential enemies that have to be destroyed (exactly as components of an unhealthy organism attack and destroy each other).

We've found ways to survive all of these, all without the help of Doronetics.
As long as Unity awareness is not the natural state of mind of each one of us, we are not vaccinated form self-made destruction.
 
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Ok, so that's a no to the "can you give me something straight-forward (layman's terms) that I can use from your theory to avoid destruction". You've rambled on about Unity awareness, harmony, common foundations.

Yes, it would be fantastic if the human race were aware that we're all in the same boat, and if we all reached harmony, and if we all had / realized we had common foundations.

You've given me nothing that I can specifically use to make those events come about. Over 10,000 posts and you still can't give a straight-forward "do this, do that, and then do this" response. You lament that "Unity awareness is not the natural state of mind of each of us", hint at the fact that you can change that, and then give no simple step by step instructions to bring that about.

I was right, I was being punked.

/thread
 
Ok, so that's a no to the "can you give me something straight-forward (layman's terms) that I can use from your theory to avoid destruction". You've rambled on about Unity awareness, harmony, common foundations.

Theory, any theory is no more than discussing about X, where the discussion is always subjective with respect to X objectivity.

In other words, X exits whether we are aware of it, or not, which means that X is discovered (it is not an invention, where invention is always subjective, whether it is mantel or physical).

The human mind has the natural ability to directly be aware of X by following after finer levels of thoughts process until it goes beyond the thoughts process (which is always subjective) and directly aware of the common foundation of all possible mental\physical phenomena of our universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO3AnD2QbIg is a good example of such practice.
 
If mankind is going to use your system to avert disaster(s), it has to be accessible to someone like me - college (Ph.D., even) educated, reasonably smart, with an open mind.

Tell me, step by step, how I use your system to avert disaster(s).
1. Every successful method, in the following case, is involved with both theory (discussing about the common foundation of our universe, which is always done at the subjective level of thoughts process) and practice (the natural ability of the human mind to follow after finer levels of thoughts' process until it goes beyond the thoughts' process and directly become aware of the objective common foundation of all possible mental\physical phenomena (which are always the subjective aspects of the objective common foundation) of our universe.

2. TM is a good example of a natural and effortless practice that can be used by any human mind in order to tune the thoughts' process to consciously start right from the objective common foundation of all possible mental\physical phenomena of our universe (more details about TM, which have nothing to do with actually practicing TM, are given in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO3AnD2QbIg or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjT831cjaUY).

3. By actually achieving this tuning within each human mind, we actually become components of a one organic realm that naturally act with respect to each other as organs of a one body (that naturally do not attack each other).

4. As a result the chance of using mass-destruction weapons is quickly and dramatically decreased.

5. The theoretical (and therefore always subjective) aspect of the objective common foundation, can be addressed by using mathematical logic, and Organic Mathematics is an example of such framework.

6. According to Organic Mathematics the objective common foundation of all possible mental\physical phenomena of our universe, is a tautology (always true) in terms of existence, and this tautology enables the consistency among all of its possible subjective manifestations, such that they are in natural harmony (they are consistent) with respect to each other.

7. So if you are using Organic Mathematics you are naturally tune your mind to logically understand non-entropic conditions, by distinguishing between actual infinity at the objective level of existence, and potential infinity at the subjective level of existence, and it has to be stressed that non-entropic conditions are essential to further development of life phenomena (which we are part of it).

8. This theoretical understanding (or any other theoretical understanding) has no impact on our abilities to become consistent organs of our universe, if it is not supported by actual mind's practice like TM.

9. The practice itself is very simple and learned step by step by a TM teacher, but what happens during TM practice does not have a step by step nature that can be explicitly described within some book, post in some forum etc.

10. All we can say in a medium like this forum is that both theoretically and practically, the mind is trained to unfold its true objective nature and use it in day by day life in natural harmonious (or consistent, if we use logic terminology) ways.
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtd2zqDXZkA is an example of TM and brain's waves function.

In order not to be confused, I use SR (Self Referential state of mind, as described in that video) in terms the objective level of existence known by the vedic knowledge as Atma (the unity of reality), where OR (Object Referential state of mind, as described in that video) in terms of the subjective level of existence known by the vedic knowledge as the fragmented diversity of reality (where the level of thoughts is at the level of fragmented diversity).
 
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"An healthy organism survives as long as it does not use its organs against each other"

1. Are you familiar with auto-immune disorders?

2. The organisms survives as long as it doesn't use its organs against each other. I stab you with a large knife. Despite all your organs acting together, you die.

3. TM can help because it will get everyone into the same mode of thinking and they naturally won't attack each other? So I try to teach my neighbor TM, and he says, screw you, I've got better things to do than waste my time on this rubbish. Do I now stab *him* with a large knife, because he's not being a cooperative "organ"?

Ugh. Reading Doron's posts saps my energy, just trying to parse all of that long-winded doubletalk.

Your basic premise is flawed. Human-kind can be a violent, hateful, anger-filled species, underneath the surface. It would be *nice* if everyone was calm and at peace and in agreement, but it hasn't happened yet, because it goes against our nature. Some parts of the world are just more civilized than others.
 
Human-kind can be a violent, hateful, anger-filled species, underneath the surface.
If the minds of the Human-kind are trained to be aware of finer levels of thoughts until they are enable to directly aware of the common foundation of all phenomena, the natural result is that all negativity above and underneath the surface is simply gone.

As long as such technique is not used day by day, the Human-kind
violent, hateful, anger etc. underneath the surface is not treated, until it expressed as devastating actions upon the surface.

Do I now stab *him* with a large knife, because he's not being a cooperative "organ"?
No.

You continue practicing TM and your natural growth of calm within you is expressed upon the surface and has an influence also on your neighbor.

Exactly at one does not force its mind to be calm during TM, one does not force anything on any level of environment.
 
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2. The organisms survives as long as it doesn't use its organs against each other. I stab you with a large knife. Despite all your organs acting together, you die.
This is a good example of why TM training is important in order to decrease potentially destructive thoughts from being expressed, by naturally develop deeper intimacy between inner and outer environments, which leads to natural compassion to other creatures.

In other words, the organic principle of nature is reinforced.
 
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It would be *nice* if everyone was calm and at peace and in agreement, but it hasn't happened yet,...
It happens if you actually do something in order to make it happen, and TM is an example of such activity that helps good things to actually happen.

PiedPiper please share with us your view about improving calm and at peace among people (which, by the way, can see things differently of each other, but these different points of view are cherished by each other instead of be used in order to attack each other. For example, in a given healthy organism, the brain cells do not attack the heart cells and vice versa even if their structure and functionality are different).

Being in agreement does not mean that all phenomena must be the same. On the contrary, different phenomena are in harmony with each other without losing their differences.
 
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You're promoting TM now?

Wow, it's all even stupider than I thought.
 
You're promoting TM now?

Wow, it's all even stupider than I thought.

Oh, he has gone down this path before. Keep in mind, too, our friend lives in area of of the world with high interpersonal turmoil. You'd think he would have had some sort of demonstrable success by now quelling the hatred among the warring factions there through the miracle of transcendental meditation.
 
Oh, he has gone down this path before. Keep in mind, too, our friend lives in area of of the world with high interpersonal turmoil. You'd think he would have had some sort of demonstrable success by now quelling the hatred among the warring factions there through the miracle of transcendental meditation.
Unfortunately not enough persons are practicing day by day an effortless mind's technique that follows after finer levels of thoughts' process until it naturally goes beyond the thoughts' process and directly become aware of the objective common foundation of all possible mental\physical phenomena.

What goes between Israel an Gaza these days actually demonstrates the need of such daily practice.

Wars start and end in the human minds, so the treatment is always done in human minds and TM is such technique.
 
It happens if you actually do something in order to make it happen, and TM is an example of such activity that helps good things to actually happen.

PiedPiper please share with us your view about improving calm and at peace among people

Doron, the world's population hasn't been at peace with each other for the entire history of our species. The fact that I start to practice TM is not going to affect my jerk of a neighbor any more than if I were to offer to teach him about Jesus / Allah / Thor or bake him a cake. He's a jerk. He doesn't care about TM and he's not alone.

You seem to be under the impression that if everyone just got along with each other the world would be at peace. I agree with you on that. How we actually *get* to that point is another matter entirely. It hasn't happened yet, in the history of humankind. People fight. People argue. Pacifists exist, but so do serial killers.

TM is not the world's savior. I hate to break it to ya, but it's just not. From what I've researched, it appears to be a good relaxation technique, but links to any real medical benefits seem to be of poor quality; more study is needed. You're never going to convince the entire world to become practitioners of TM.

Given that there's always going to be that "Jerk Percentage", I don't see how TM is going to save us from destruction. I also fail to see much of a connection between TM and the math that you've been tossing out for the past 10k posts. If there is a link, explain it to me in a short, easy to read single paragraph that uses layman terms and words of short syllables. Failure to do this indicates a lack of a connection.

Being able to distill a complex subject into a simple, straight-forward statement is vital for communication between highly specialized individuals and the average Joe. I'm not qualified to comment on your many thousands of posts involving mathematics, although the common opinion of other experts here on the forum seems to be quite low. I'll go with the majority for the moment, but I'm willing to extend an olive branch if you can do the above (distill down the essence of what you're saying into a simple statement).

No wishful thinking. No statements that aren't supported. No self-beliefs pushed forward as facts. An example of a post that would convince me is something like this:

"XYZ has been shown (citations) to do ABC. People who practice XYZ have been shown to experience less disasters (citations). Therefore, I advocate that more people learn about XYZ, because it will help them avoid disasters. Also, this positive experience with XYZ has been demonstrably shown to convince normal, skeptical non-practioners of XYZ to begin practicing XYZ (citations). Therefore, XYZ will eventually lead to a worldwide reduction of disasters".

That's 10,000 posts distilled down into one, easy to digest paragraph. Can you do this? One paragraph, say no more than 7-8 sentences? Including citations to well-reviewed studies or statistics?

Regarding your challenge to me ("please share with us your view about improving calm and at peace among people") I would be happy to provide my thoughts on how this can be done once you write out the above requested paragraph. My ideas won't work, because they've been tried and shown not to work, but you claim your idea does work. So, let's see what you've got.

1. No buzzwords.
2. Short, easy to understand vocabulary. Like you're talking to a friendly stranger at the pub.
3. At least one peer-reviewed citation for every claim that you make to be true.

If you can't provide this, or respond with double-talk, or respond with "well you can't 'get' this because blah blah blah" I'm afraid we really have nothing further to talk about.

You're the one that claimed your method could reduce the chance of all mankind falling prey to cataclysmic destructive forces. Time to prove it. One paragraph.
 
Unfortunately not enough persons are practicing day by day an effortless mind's technique that follows after finer levels of thoughts' process until it naturally goes beyond the thoughts' process and directly become aware of the objective common foundation of all possible mental\physical phenomena.

What goes between Israel an Gaza these days actually demonstrates the need of such daily practice.

Wars start and end in the human minds, so the treatment is always done in human minds and TM is such technique.

And what is the evidence that there are not enough persons practising it day to day to make any difference as opposed to, say...

It's bunch of made up cobblers and does not work, period?

How would a rational person distinguish between these competing hypotheses?
 
From what I've researched, ...
Please demonstrate how exactly you have researched it.

It will help me a lot to communicate with you about how things are actually researched and can be used by practical and useful ways.
 
... it appears to be a good relaxation technique ...
PiedPiper please think very carefully about the following statement:

"Wars start and end in people's minds, so the solution is profoundly related to people's minds"

You're never going to convince the entire world to become practitioners of TM.
Maybe it is not needed if Maharishi effect really works ( http://scholar.google.co.il/scholar?q="maharishi+effect"&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5 ).

Do you think that you are qualified to comment on this topic?

If your answer is "yes", then explicitly demonstrate it.

Maybe http://ts-si.org/files/DavidRLefflerNewRoleMilitary.pdf or http://www.wholistichealingresearch.com/user_files/documents/ijhc/articles/Orme-Johnson-3-3.pdf can help you.

I don't see how TM is going to save us from destruction.
What are your qualifications that are used by you to conclude such a thing?

I also fail to see much of a connection between TM and the math that you've been tossing out for the past 10k posts. If there is a link, explain it to me in a short, easy to read single paragraph that uses layman terms and words of short syllables. Failure to do this indicates a lack of a connection.
Failure to do this indicates a lack of connection by your layman point of view.

Until this very moment you did not ask any detailed questions or detailed remarks that are related to http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10100311&postcount=4128 content , or in other words, all you demonstrate until this very moment is no more than hands waving communication style about this topic.

So please stop your hands waving communication style and ask some detailed questions or express some detailed remarks about http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10100311&postcount=4128 content.

Nobody is going to replace you in order to do this.

So if this time you are going to supply more hands waving communication style (by avoiding detailed questions about or express some detailed remarks http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10100311&postcount=4128 content) I am going to ignore it.
 
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Sometimes--frequently in this thread as it turns out--the the problem is that there is nothing to get.

Frequently in this thread as it turns out ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10066680&postcount=4095 and your "response" to it in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10066748&postcount=4096 ) you are doing nothing in order to get http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10100311&postcount=4128.
 
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No wishful thinking. No statements that aren't supported. No self-beliefs pushed forward as facts. An example of a post that would convince me is something like this:

"XYZ has been shown (citations) to do ABC. People who practice XYZ have been shown to experience less disasters (citations). Therefore, I advocate that more people learn about XYZ, because it will help them avoid disasters. Also, this positive experience with XYZ has been demonstrably shown to convince normal, skeptical non-practioners of XYZ to begin practicing XYZ (citations). Therefore, XYZ will eventually lead to a worldwide reduction of disasters".
Some examples:

http://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ996375

http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/research.html

https://consciousnessbasededucation.org/uploads/file/pdf/20p-CBE-sciRes_Sep10_A4.pdf

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J076v36n01_03#.U8BMT7HlZaU

http://journals.lww.com/jhypertensi...critics_of_research_on_Transcendental.29.aspx

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-h-schneider/
 
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Wow! for someone who is practicing TM, your approach is quite destructive....
Wrong. If you or AdMan wish to reply, it simply has to be done in details.

My approach is quite straightforward about that, and it is uncomfortable to persons that use hands waving style.
 
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...but since you yourself fail to understand them...

Please support you claim in details according to what is written in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10100311&postcount=4128 , including the links and my two posts above it.

Doron, you really need to try harder with your reading comprehension. Your response, coupled with a link to an irrelevant post, is a complete non sequitur.

Let's take this in parts, then. Which part of:
I ask you which part you didn't understand, and you point me to one of your posts.
Did you not understand?
 
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