Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

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Can you quote the part you think helps you?

So what you're asking is for me to re-post a link that you didn't bother to read in the first place, and then re-posted yourself a few pages back?

Sorry, this is the big leagues, and you're the one trying to prove the ridiculous, not me. I took the time to hunt through all kinds of CT BS to find it, and I posted it after I read the entire thing.

Research means reading a lot.
 
Since we've established the validity of my question "How did Dr. Finck see the entry hole in the intact skull after the brain had already been removed", I must remind everyone who still thinks the wound was high in the cowlick area to answer that in a way that isn't completely stupid, otherwise any reasonable person must revert to the original lower EOP location for the entry in the back of the head.

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Still no adequate refutation of this issue.
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Nope, doesn't answer anything. Just read the repeated statements of Finck and everyone else. No premise of my question has ever been successfully challenged. So the question stands.

Been there, done that. You don't get one free fringe reset just because you didn't like the evidence the first time around.

Hank
 
Been there, done that. You don't get one free fringe reset just because you didn't like the evidence the first time around.

Hank

Don't you remember? You had some kind of misunderstanding with the 60's statements of Finck, and 70's Finck came along and cleared everything up once and for all.
 
Don't you remember? You had some kind of misunderstanding with the 60's statements of Finck, and 70's Finck came along and cleared everything up once and for all.

I remember you claiming the wound of entry on the back of the skull at the supposed level of the "cowlick" had to be cut away from the skull to faciliate the removal of the brain; which, according to you, contradicts the testimony of Finck that he entered the autopsy room after the brain had been removed, yet saw the wound of entry on the skull.

You claimed that here:
Addendum: And the devoid cowlick area on the X-rays identified by the HSCA as an entry wound would also have been separated from the skull in order to remove the brain, which would flatly contradict Dr. Finck's repeated statements that he could see the unaffected crater in the intact skull after the autopsy doctors had already removed the brain.

I remember you also citing the 1965 statement of Finck, and telling everyone that was the evidence the skull had to be sawed open to remove the brain.

You claimed that here:
The depressed cowlick fracture was right beside the lower parietal area of the large defect, of course it would have to be separated in the process of removing the brain.

After that, you saw that blow up in your face and ran away from that evidence as quickly as you could, because I quoted Finck and Humes saying the precise opposite. Now you're claiming Finck's 1978 statements - where he said "I don't recall" and the like a dozen times or more - are the key statements, and the 1965 statements should be disregarded or I am interpreting them incorrectly.

We covered your argument extensively the first time around. No free fringe reset just because you didn't like the evidence the first time around. Review these posts and see how your arguments amounted to nothing.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876302&postcount=352

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876344&postcount=357

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876465&postcount=384

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876503&postcount=387

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876525&postcount=390

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876604&postcount=394

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11877009&postcount=408

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11878226&postcount=421

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11887600&postcount=556

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11888102&postcount=560

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11888746&postcount=583

All the best,

Hank
 
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Nope.

I have no problem with the autopsy, more to the point - since there are not enough photographs available to the public there is no way to dispute the report.

There was only one bullet wound to the head, and there is no reasonable doubt about where it came from. :thumbsup:
 

I don't need to click your obsessively catalogued links, I have a decent enough memory. Everything you have ever tried saying to answer my question has been debunked. May as well be trolling.
 
I don't need to click your obsessively catalogued links, I have a decent enough memory. Everything you have ever tried saying to answer my question has been debunked. May as well be trolling.

Debunked...okay...so you ask us for proof, we provide you proof, you refuse to read what we post, and you end up back where you started.
 
I don't need want to be reminded so I won't to click your obsessively catalogued links, I have a decent enough memory. Everything you I have ever tried saying to answer my question your evidence has been debunked. May as well be trolling.

FTFY

Hank
 
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I don't need to click your obsessively catalogued links, I have a decent enough memory. Everything you have ever tried saying to answer my question has been debunked. May as well be trolling.

Declaring victory after getting trounced by the evidence isn't a new tactic among conspiracy theorists. Your approach is amusing but not surprising. This isn't my first rodeo. I've been debating the JFK assassination since the early 1990's - starting with Prodigy. I've seen this before.

Hank
 
He wants a free fringe reset so we go around in circles and eventually tire of refuting him.

Hank

You've had your say, Potion Seller, but I'll have mine. You're a rascal. You're a rascal with no respect for knights. No respect anything, except your potions!
 
Declaring victory after getting trounced by the evidence isn't a new tactic among conspiracy theorists. Your approach is amusing but not surprising. This isn't my first rodeo. I've been debating the JFK assassination since the early 1990's - starting with Prodigy. I've seen this before.

Hank

In no universe have you had a victory on the EOP wound subject.
 
Now you're claiming Finck's 1978 statements - where he said "I don't recall" and the like a dozen times or more - are the key statements . . . .

Typical CT selectivity. They also cite Buell Frazier's WC testimony to claim that the bag found in the TSBD couldn't have been the one Oswald had in the car that morning, despite Frazier's Guinness Book world record for the number of times a person can say, "I didn't really pay much attention."
 
You've had your say, Potion Seller, but I'll have mine. You're a rascal. You're a rascal with no respect for knights. No respect anything, except your potions!

And in your universe, I'm a rascal with no respect for knights, and you're the knight going into battle and you come armed with a water balloon?

Hilarious.

And you want my strongest potion? It's called evidence.

And you can't handle it.

Hank
 
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Are you saying you have the balls to spell out your comprehensive theory for how JFK was assassinated?

What are we to make of your abject failure to state your comprehensive theory for the assassination that fits all the evidence? Don't all those opinions you've been trying to pass off as evidence add up to anything at all?
 
And in your universe, I'm a rascal with no respect for knights, and you're the knight going into battle and you come armed with a water balloon?

Hilarious.

And you want my strongest potion? It's called evidence.

And you can't handle it.

Hank

Potion Seller, I'm telling you I need your strongest potions. I'm going into battle! I'm going to battle and I need your strongest potions!
 
Typical CT selectivity. They also cite Buell Frazier's WC testimony to claim that the bag found in the TSBD couldn't have been the one Oswald had in the car that morning, despite Frazier's Guinness Book world record for the number of times a person can say, "I didn't really pay much attention."

How? What is your answer to the brain removal problem?
 
Yes, that's another good example of you attempting to pass off your opinion as evidence. Do you have anything that isn't your opinion? Remember that your opinions are of no value.

What are you talking about, Robotimbo? A proper brain removal procedure involved having a large enough skull cavity to get your fingers under the temporal lobes, to cut the brainstem, to cut the tentorium cerebelli, etc. and any medical source will say that.
 
That there is no problem. Nobody is else seems troubled by your flawed opinion of what the autopsy was like, and is satisfied by evidence.

But how do you think the brain was removed? You don't seem to be able to give a straight answer.
 
But how do you think the brain was removed? You don't seem to be able to give a straight answer.

By reflecting the scalp.

There you go, a straight answer that fits the autopsy records. If that doesn't fit your understanding of the autopsy that is entirely your problem. The onus is on you to prove an anomaly, which you have not done. You have not even given me a reason to suspect anything unusual, given you seem to move the "cowlick" around the skull to get in the way of whatever you need. Quite frankly it seems you don't understand what the autopsy says, but need it to be wrong.

Why you keep challenging others, instead of laying out a comprehensive and convincing theory is beyond me.
 
Here's a straight answer straight from Humes himself on page 102:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=788#relPageId=104&tab=page

The whole thing starts on page 95, and a smart person would read the entire thing as it is for the ARRB...but we know who is not a smart person.

They cut the brain out with a saw. They cut the scalp, and sawed away.

On page 109 he discusses the hole in the skull from the 6.5x52mm round. He says the entry was at the scalp wound, and that they didn't have to reconstruct fragments to view the entire hole in the Occipital. They spent 30 to 45 minutes examining the skull and found nothing else unusual.
 
What are we to make of your abject failure to state your comprehensive theory for the assassination that fits all the evidence? Don't all those opinions you've been trying to pass off as evidence add up to anything at all?

That, plus I'm still waiting for a list of all the people MicahJava says have been convinced by his arguments.
 
Potion Seller, I'm telling you I need your strongest potions. I'm going into battle! I'm going to battle and I need your strongest potions!

I gave you the evidence over the past month, but you couldn't handle it.

I gave it to you again last night here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11897951&postcount=689

And you still couldn't handle it. You refused to even look at it, in fact - claiming your recollection of all that was sufficient.

Repeating your mantra that the evidence isn't there while refusing to even look at the evidence in front of you is not very convincing. And won't become more convincing regardless of how many times you repeat it.

Hank
 
Here's a straight answer straight from Humes himself on page 102:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=788#relPageId=104&tab=page

The whole thing starts on page 95, and a smart person would read the entire thing as it is for the ARRB...but we know who is not a smart person.

They cut the brain out with a saw. They cut the scalp, and sawed away.

On page 109 he discusses the hole in the skull from the 6.5x52mm round. He says the entry was at the scalp wound, and that they didn't have to reconstruct fragments to view the entire hole in the Occipital. They spent 30 to 45 minutes examining the skull and found nothing else unusual.


Don't encourage him.

The problem with that statement of Humes - made 33 years after the fact - is that Humes himself says he doesn't recall the specifics, and they probably made a normal cut around the top of the skull to open up the head.

And that stumbling response comes only after the very loaded question: "Where did you cut the bone?" - an absolutely horrible question if you're trying to get Humes best recollection, and not lead him into false recollections.


But there was no cutting of the skull bone necessary, according to the contemporaneous statements (1963-1965).

For example, Finck's testimony in 1965, only 14 months after the assassination, is he was told upon joining the autopsy already in progress the skull was sufficiently shattered only cuts through the scalp were necessary to open up the skull sufficiently to remove the brain because of the extensive fracturing of the skull bones. MicahJava quoted that himself, but didn't understand what Finck was saying:
This is Dr. Finck's earliest recorded description of exactly what happened, in his 1/25/1965-2/1/1965 reports of Kennedy's autopsy to Gen. Blumberg:

"]I examined the wounds. The scalp of the back of the head showed a small laceration, 15 X 6 mm. Corresponding to this lesion, I found a through-and-through wound of the occipital bone, with a crater visible from the inside of the cranial cavity. This bone wound showed no crater when viewed from outside the skull. On the basis of this pattern of the occipital bone perforation, I stated that the wound in the back of the head was an entrance."

"THE WOUNDS

The scalp of the vertex is lacerated. There is an open comminuted fracture of the cranial vault, many portions of which are missing.

The autopsy had been in progress for thirty minutes when I arrived. Cdr Humes told me that he only had to prolong the lacerations of the scalp before removing the brain. No sawing of the skull was necessary.
"


Humes testified to the same thing before the Warren Commission in 1964.

Commander HUMES - Our interpretation is, sir, that the missile struck the right occipital region, penetrated through the two tables of the skull, making the characteristic coning on the inner table which I have previously referred to. That one portion of the missile and judging by the size of the defect thus produced, the major portion of the missile, made its exit through this large defect.

A second portion of the missile or multiple second portions were deflected, and traversed a distance as enumerated by this interrupted line, with the major portion of that fragment coming to lodge in the position indicated.
Perhaps some of these minor fragments were dislodged from the major one it traversed this course.

To better examine the situation with regard to the skull, at this time, Boswell and I extended the lacerations of the scalp which were at the margins of this wound, down in the direction of both of the President's ears. At that point, we had even a better appreciation of the extensive damage which had been done to the skull by this injury.


And the autopsy report prepared on the weekend of the assassination doesn't mention a craniotomy or any skull cutting at all. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-09.pdf

And you can see in the x-ray Micah Java himself cited how extensively fractured the skull is - and why cutting the scalp alone would reveal enough of the brain to excise it: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11882692&postcount=537

So, according to the earliest statements, no sawing was necessary to remove the brain, and the skull bone fragments adhered to the scalp and revealed the entry wound on the scalp in the back of the head; the entry wound with beveling on the interior of the back of the skull; and the entry wound on the exterior of the skull - once that bone was cut away from the scalp itself - and that the wounds in the scalp and skull corresponded to each other.

Hank
 
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What are you talking about, Robotimbo? A proper brain removal procedure involved having a large enough skull cavity to get your fingers under the temporal lobes, to cut the brainstem, to cut the tentorium cerebelli, etc. and any medical source will say that.

I'm not sure how you could have missed it after so many times that your error was pointed out to you. Your opinion of how it "should have been done" is of no value and yet that's what you keep going on about. I've even asked you recently if you have anything other than your opinion. I see that your answer is "NO".

How does a "proper" brain removal procedure impact your comprehensive theory for how the assassination occurred? Perhaps you could be useful and answer that?
 
My question to MicahJava is still what difference does a couple of inches difference in the entry wound location make? MicahJava treats the difference as if this difference necessarily makes a conspiracy. Both the WC and HSCA both reported that a SINGLE bullet wound entry at the back of the head caused the damage. No "second" bullet wound was noted.
Where is the conspiracy?
 
Nope.

I have no problem with the autopsy, more to the point - since there are not enough photographs available to the public there is no way to dispute the report.

There was only one bullet wound to the head, and there is no reasonable doubt about where it came from. :thumbsup:

Well yes. The sad (for MJ) truth is that, even if he is correct about the location of the entry wound, it still was made by a bullet from Oswald's rifle, and there is no evidence that any other shooters or weapons were involved. It is the most pointless sort of anomaly hunting.
 
Well yes. The sad (for MJ) truth is that, even if he is correct about the location of the entry wound, it still was made by a bullet from Oswald's rifle, and there is no evidence that any other shooters or weapons were involved. It is the most pointless sort of anomaly hunting.

But he (actually whatever CTist he is a fan of) believes it to be of significance.

The fact that he won't answer as to how the pin-the-headwound nonsense fits in with the totality of evidence is just CTist sop.
 
Well yes. The sad (for MJ) truth is that, even if he is correct about the location of the entry wound, it still was made by a bullet from Oswald's rifle, and there is no evidence that any other shooters or weapons were involved. It is the most pointless sort of anomaly hunting.

I wonder if the CTist point of view is that this is the work of a trunk monkey.
 
Here's a straight answer straight from Humes himself on page 102:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=788#relPageId=104&tab=page

The whole thing starts on page 95, and a smart person would read the entire thing as it is for the ARRB...but we know who is not a smart person.

They cut the brain out with a saw. They cut the scalp, and sawed away.

On page 109 he discusses the hole in the skull from the 6.5x52mm round. He says the entry was at the scalp wound, and that they didn't have to reconstruct fragments to view the entire hole in the Occipital. They spent 30 to 45 minutes examining the skull and found nothing else unusual.

That's not what I asked and you know it.

And, importantly, the area of the skull around the large defect was so fractured that pieces would naturally break off. Very little sawing of the skull was necessary. So since the X-rays show the cowlick fracture right beside the large defect, the cowlick area of the skull would have been among the pieces to naturally break off. Since Dr. Finck arrived to the autopsy after the skull cavity was enlarged and the brain was removed yet could still examine the entry wound in the intact rest of the skull, this indicates that the entry wound was not on the upper cowlick area as theorized by the HSCA.
 
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