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Old 12th January 2020, 01:30 PM   #658
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,079
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You aren't paying attention.

Claptrap snipped.
Let me take this opportunity to make an observation and throw some actual evidence into the mix - not that you'll do any better addressing it than you did with the non-answer I snipped.

Other than a throw-away comment about cops and firemen being paid to plant evidence, you (as well as every-other 9/11 truth nutter) have simply referred to the human beings that are required to participate in your fantasy construct as "they."

When one believes the John Wick series of movies are documentaries and there's a criminal mastermind around every corner it's easy to come to the "they" conclusion as the catch all for their little evil deed fantasies.

Reality is considerably different. There is a name for average folks that believe they can purchase murder on any corner - Defendant:

A Rapid City man who was convicted for seeking help to murder his late wife's doctor has been sentenced to prison.

William Thoman, 63, was sentenced Friday by Judge Jeff Connolly to 15 years in prison with 10 years suspended and nearly a year of credit for time served, said defense lawyer Ellery Grey.

This one hits a little close to home. One defendant, who was convicted, was a friends father:

In June 1992, appellant met with Hiroshi Hirashima, an old friend and business partner. Appellant told Hirashima that Wei had cheated him out of $80,000. Appellant asked Hirashima if he knew anyone who could help him get his money back. Assuming that appellant wanted someone to "rough up" Wei, Hirashima told appellant that he might know of someone who could do that. After his meeting with appellant, Hirashima approached Frank Amo, who at that time was living with Hirashima's daughter Donna at Hirashima's house. Amo had previously collected money for Hirashima. Hirashima told Amo that he had a possible new collection job for him. Amo agreed to meet appellant.

Appellant took Amo and Hirashima out for dinner and told them that Wei had "ripped [him] off" and cheated him out of "millions" in the gambling business. Appellant wanted Amo to kidnap Wei, his wife and "possibly his children," extort them, and then kill them. It appeared to Amo that Hirashima already knew of the plan, and was participating with appellant in presenting it to Amo. Both appellant and Hirashima suggested that "it would be best if a White guy did the job" in order to divert attention from themselves. Hirashima said that he would have to "put . . . away" or kill anyone who learned about the plan. Amo was shocked and frightened. He agreed to help appellant and Hirashima because he "didn't want to end up dead on the beach at that point." They agreed to meet again to discuss details of the plan.

The tough talking boyfriend of his daughter went right to the feds after he got his 10K. My friend explained his father's behavior as being "in his head, he was a gangster." Unfortunately for him, but fortunately for the intended victims, he was not. Liu beat the rap, Hirashima ended up in Folsom.

I can go on and on. Google "convicted of solicitation to commit murder." if you need further evidence.

I can already hear the great conspiracy investigator's complaint - "those are common criminals not GOV.FED.CORP.CONTRACTOR.PMC trained killers!

We've got some actual evidence from that side of the street to look at as well.

The My Lai massacre is well known and well documented, but what isn't generally known is that an Army Warrant officer landed his helicopter in between the troops involved and victims to put a stop to the killing, and several enlisted and noin-coms either refused to participate or tried to stop the murders. They also acted as witnesses and reported what they saw, The Army dragged it's feet and tried and hoped it would go away - it didn't - and whether one agrees with the judicial outcome or not the truth was known about the incident.

Far less well known is this - The Tiger Force recon platoon in the 101st ABN.:

Tiger Force was the name of a long-range reconnaissance patrol unit[1] of the 1st Battalion (Airborne), 327th Infantry, 1st Brigade (Separate), 101st Airborne Division, which fought in the Vietnam War from May to November 1967.[2] The unit gained notoriety after investigations during the course of the war and decades afterwards revealed extensive war crimes against civilians, which numbered into the hundreds.[3]...

Sallah found that between 1971 and 1975, the Army's Criminal Investigation Command had investigated the Tiger Force unit for alleged war crimes committed between May and November 1967.[8] The documents included sworn statements from many Tiger Force veterans, which detailed war crimes allegedly committed by Tiger Force members during the Song Ve Valley and Operation Wheeler military campaigns. The statements, from both individuals who allegedly participated in the war crimes and those that did not, described war crimes such as the following:

the routine torture and execution of prisoners[9]

the routine practice of intentionally killing unarmed Vietnamese villagers including men, women, children, and elderly people[10]

the routine practice of cutting off and collecting the ears of victims[11]

the practice of wearing necklaces composed of human ears[12]

the practice of cutting off and collecting the scalps of victims[13]

incidents where soldiers would plant weapons on murdered Vietnamese villagers[14]

an incident where a young mother was drugged, raped, and then executed[15]

an incident where a soldier killed a baby and cut off his or her head after the baby's mother was killed[16]

The investigators concluded that many of the war crimes indeed took place.[17] This included the murder of former-ARVN personnel, the murder of two blind brothers, the crippled and old and the routine murder of women and children.[3] Despite this, the Army decided not to pursue any prosecutions.[18]...

After studying the documents, Sallah and fellow reporter, Mitch Weiss, located and interviewed dozens of veterans who served in Tiger Force during the period in question as well as the CID investigators who later carried out the Army's inquiry. The reporters also traveled to Vietnam and tracked down numerous residents of Song Ve Valley who identified themselves as witnesses. Sallah and Weiss reported that the war crimes were corroborated by both veterans[20] and Song Ve Valley residents.[21] The reporters also managed to track down dozens of additional investigative records not included in the National Archives.

There's more to read for interested parties, but the facts are that in this case, the criminal acts committed took place over a specific period of time and while the acts were encouraged by lower level officers and NCO's and the Army didn't start a serious inquiry until 4 years after the crimes were committed individual service members in that unit had reported the crimes to the CoC at the time - some people turned a blind eye to those reorts but the EM's and non-coms didn't.

Another example from Vietnam, Robert Rheault:

Robert Bradley Rheault /roʊ/ (October 31, 1925 October 16, 2013) was an American colonel in the U.S. Army Special Forces who served as commander of the First Special Forces Group in Okinawa, and the Fifth Special Forces Group in Vietnam from May to July 1969.

Rheault was best known for his role as a co-conspirator and commander of the unit responsible for the 20 June 1969 execution of South Vietnam double agent Thai Khac Chuyen, who compromised intelligence agents involved in Project GAMMA operating in Vietnam and Cambodia.[1]


All U.S. Army Special Forces in 1969 operated under the control of 5th Special Forces Group, headquartered at Nha Trang on the southeast coast of South Vietnam. There was a close relationship with the CIA that complicated the chain of command and philosophy of rules of engagement.[6]

Colonel Rheault took command of the 5th in May 1969 and his unit was charged with seeking out leaks in a CIA-directed espionage ring as part of Project GAMMA. Rheault, along with six of his Special Forces officers and a sergeant were arrested by the U.S. military under the orders of General Creighton Abrams and threatened with charges of murder and conspiracy to commit murder, arising from the alleged extrajudicial killing of Thai Khac Chuyen, a Vietnamese double agent for the Americans and the North Vietnamese.[1][7]

The investigation and court-martial, held by the U.S. Army in Vietnam, rapidly became engulfed in a firestorm of media publicity. Most of the American public and the Special Forces believed that Colonel Rheault and all involved had been made scapegoats for a matter that reflected poorly upon the Army.[8] The view that there was no wrongdoing by the soldiers was probably best stated by Rheault's 11-year-old son, Robert, Jr. who upon learning of his father's arrest said, "What is all the fuss about? I thought that was what dad was in Vietnam for ... to kill Viet Cong".[3

My point here with this case is that contrary to the popular fiction version of reality where "they" can get away with anything everywhere from a single murder in Dallas to 9/11, the commanding officer of the 5th Special Forces Group can't get away clean with killing an enemy operative in the middle of a war, in the war zone.

That's reality.

I can hear more complaints from folks with an MCU worldview - "That's old, that doesn't have anything to do with the here and now!"

Unfortunately for that rooting section, we've got recent examples. I bet mosr CTists are aware of part of this story:

The Nisour Square Massacre occurred on September 16, 2007 where employees of Blackwater Security Consulting (now Academi), a private military company contracted by the US government to provide security services in Iraq, shot at Iraqi civilians, killing 17 and injuring 20 in Nisour Square, Baghdad, while escorting a U.S. embassy convoy.[1][2][3] The killings outraged Iraqis and strained relations between Iraq and the United States.[4] In 2014, four Blackwater employees were tried[5] and convicted in U.S. federal court; one of murder, and the other three of manslaughter and firearms charges.[6]

The CTists are happy, "Now that's what we're talking about!"

Except this part of the story might not make them happy:

On September 27, 2007, the New York Times reported that during the chaotic incident at Nisour Square, one member of the Blackwater security team continued to fire on civilians, despite urgent cease-fire calls from colleagues. It is unclear whether the team-member mistook the civilians for insurgents. The incident was allegedly resolved only after another Blackwater contractor pointed his weapon at the man still firing and ordered him to stop.[33]


How about this favorites of our fearless leader and Fox news, Clint Lorance

Clint Allen Lorance[1] (born December 13, 1984) is a former Army officer previously commissioned as a first lieutenant in the U.S. Army who in August 2013 was found guilty on two counts of second-degree murder for ordering soldiers in his platoon to open fire at three men on a motorcycle in southern Afghanistan in July 2012.[2] He was confined in the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas until he was fully pardoned and ordered released by President Donald Trump, on November 15, 2019.[3][4]

At his trial in August 2013, nine members of his platoon testified against him.[5] Lorance never testified in the court hearings, though he did take responsibility for his men's actions. Lorance claimed three men on a motorcycle were speeding towards the platoon and ignoring commands to stop. Reports from his Platoon members state the motorcycle was 200 yards away and could not have reached their position easily[5]

Guy was in-country 3 days. His EM's and NCO's new he was bad news on day 1. As soon as the murders went down multiple members of his platoon went right to the CoC and reported the incident and stood as witnesses against him. I'm proud of those kids. They absolutely did the right thing.

That's the reality that all this "they" ******** has to overcome. There is no vast pool of professional sociopaths and psychopaths just waiting for a call from the head office to murder innocents. There is no cadre of technical experts that fall into those categories that would wire an occupied civilian building with explosives and not realize what was going on, or conveniently forget what they had done after the building comes down.

What there is are a demographic of amateurs that believe belief in and promotion of conspiravy theories rasies their social standing.

They're wrong both ways.
Music is what feelings sound like

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
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