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The study of atoms in the brain doesn't explain the redness of red;Materialism = FAKE
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P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
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[All impolite comments will be ignored.]
As noted in the other thread
This stilll isn't Facebook..
RedStapler
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Soon there will be no one left..
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
Well obviously. You'd have to study boiled eggs, Duh!
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
I engaged you with open good faith in the other thread and you never engaged me. I don’t consider myself a materialist either as a borderline idealist. I would love to see a discussion of the ideas around your question.
Sorry but I'm not following you. You haven't answered with any clarity what "redness of red" means.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
According to the consensus definition.
In the sense that you are using words to mean something other than the consensus definition.
Dave
I have answered by pointing to you towards what you feel when you see the red color or when you fall in love.
In other words, what do you experience when a certain wavelength hits your eyes vs. what do you experience when the wavelength of the yellow color hits your eyes.
Nothing exists except matter.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Verb
2.
experience (an emotion or sensation).
"I felt a sense of excitement"
I.e.: what do you experience when you see the red color vs. yellow.
Better like that?
I don't feel anything when I see red in the world, I may make a categorisation, "That telephone box is red".
That's a complex behaviour so something different to seeing something that is red.
I see red things, I see yellow things, I see orange things, none have any "feel" to them.
RedStapler
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Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Verb
2.
experience (an emotion or sensation).
"I felt a sense of excitement"
I.e.: what do you experience when you see the red color vs. yellow.
Better like that?
When I see the colour red, I experience seeing the colour red. When I see the colour yellow, I experience seeing the colour yellow. These are tautologies. Since a tautology must be true under any set of assumptions, they cannot be used to prove or disprove any theory, including materialism. Your argument is therefore demonstrably specious.
Dave
Can be induced by altering the chemical composition in the brain; also such feelings can be induced by physically altering the brain. So that evidence indicates it is "atoms".
I.e.: what do you experience when you see the red color vs. yellow.
Better like that?
Still not understanding this part. I don't feel anything when I see something that is red. I may decide to categorise something based on my perceptions, for example "that is red apple", "that is a green apple".
Of course they do: otherwise, how can you tell them apart?
Robin
Penultimate Amazing
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When I have made a metaphysical claim in this forum I have set out
1. Here is what I think is the case and;
2. Here is why I think it is the case.
Thereafter there is a basis for discussion during which someone may or not change my mind.
Now we have the case of
1. Here is what I think is the case and;
2. Change my mind.
No basis for discussion because we have no idea why he thinks the conclusion follows from the premise.
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, we were to accept the premise "The study of atoms does not explain the redness of red", how does the conclusion "Materialism = fake" follow?
1. Here is what I think is the case and;
2. Here is why I think it is the case.
Thereafter there is a basis for discussion during which someone may or not change my mind.
Now we have the case of
1. Here is what I think is the case and;
2. Change my mind.
No basis for discussion because we have no idea why he thinks the conclusion follows from the premise.
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, we were to accept the premise "The study of atoms does not explain the redness of red", how does the conclusion "Materialism = fake" follow?
They are to my perception different colours, that is how I see them. But there is no "experience" of red separate from seeing something that is red. Without seeing something that is red I have no experience of "red" or "redness".