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Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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Warp12 said:
The expression "bootlicking" tells me all I need to know.

Just be sure to call them "pigs" when you dial 911. That way, you are sure to get the help you need. ;)
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No it doesn't. Well, maybe for you, but not for skeptics.

The uncritical support and defense of police is one of the factors that leads to police not being held accountable to anywhere near the level they should be. That this uncritical support is given the derogatory shorthand 'bootlicking' does not actually impact the truth of that being a factor.

And when I call 911 I'll be sure to call the cops 'pigs' because it will make the EMS laugh. You know, the overwhelming reason to call 911. Yet EMS actually have accountability, even if often not enough either. (Also because it would make my police family and acquaintances laugh.)
 
tyr_13 said:
No it doesn't. Well, maybe for you, but not for skeptics.

The uncritical support and defense of police is one of the factors that leads to police not being held accountable to anywhere near the level they should be. That this uncritical support is given the derogatory shorthand 'bootlicking' does not actually impact the truth of that being a factor.

And when I call 911 I'll be sure to call the cops 'pigs' because it will make the EMS laugh. You know, the overwhelming reason to call 911. Yet EMS actually have accountability, even if often not enough either. (Also because it would make my police family and acquaintances laugh.)
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There is a level between "uncritical support", and calling all officers " pigs".

That level is not referred to as "bootlicking".
 
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Warp12 said:
Just be sure to call them "pigs" when you dial 911. That way, you are sure to get the help you need. ;)
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Remembering a joke:

some comedian said:
it'll be interesting to see who "hates the cops" when they get robbed and need someone to show up 7 hours later and shrug their shoulders
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"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.
 
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Warp12 said:
"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.
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Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.
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It's totally normal and good that cops have to be treated like dangerous, feral animals. If you surprise or anger them, they might react by killing and it's really up to you to keep things on an even keel. This is a fine state of affairs actually, please don't be rude.

ETA: How do I change my avatar, I want to put a blue line flag to show my support for our heroes
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.
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The data does not support your claim, although the media certainly does. There are certainly isolated incidents, but it is not an epidemic of any sort.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Listen I've butted heads with SuburbanTurkey over his gleeful hate-boner for police many a time and surely will do again in the future, but you're being massively disingenuous here.

Police are murdering people in the streets with no repercussions. Being insulted over that does not tip or balance any scales nor invite "whataboutism" from rational people.
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Actually a study showed that insults made a lot of cops more dangerous.

Just google "Cops 40%" it should come right up ;)
 
Warp12 said:
The data does not support your claim, although the media certainly does. There are certainly isolated incidents, but it is not an epidemic of any sort.
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Okay well if you're just going to deny reality, so be it. I will not waste my time arguing with someone who thinks there's some minimum amount of police murder that has to occur before you're allowed to worry about it.

Your "media" jab only taints the waters more.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay well if you're just going to deny reality, so be it. I will not waste my time arguing with someone who thinks there's some minimum amount of police murder that has to occur before you're allowed to worry about it.

Your "media" jab only taints the waters more.
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You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says.

Fine by me.
 
We need to understand the causes of what makes a police officer brutally beat on or unload an entire magazine into someone.

But protestors against police violence have got to tone things down, they get so emotional about it!
 
Warp12 said:
I'll just let that one simmer in public, lol.
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You can let it simmer all you want, so long as you demonstrate your claim.

You're assuming that cops have it worse but I don't see why. Maybe you're imagining that their jobs are far more dangerous than they really are.
 
Warp12 said:
"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.
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Actually, in a democratic society, it does.

You're just not thinking these things through.

Warp12 said:
You can worry about It all you want, in spite of what the data says.

Fine by me.
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Gee, I wonder how much I should bet that you can't present that data.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Remembering a joke:
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Comes up every time a protestor gets their car stolen . "Oh, will a social worker find your car?" Well, since the social worker would recognize that the stolen car is a significant problem, and the police can't seem to find cars even when they're writing tickets for the stolen car and having it towed after however long...yes, I expect the social worker to do a better job.

Same thing for nearly every other crime as well - putting aside that they might actually prevent the crime from occurring to begin with, a job that cops do not do outside of the very rare social work.
 
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Warp12 said:
"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.
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What is your view on the existence of Homan Square?

What about cops getting tattoos and gang-style initiations for killing people?

What about Chauvin's long history of complaints against him?

What about the DoJ report into policing in Baltimore?

What about the shooting of sleeping people?
 
Warp12 said:
"I expect respect and fair treatment from Police. I also feel it is ok to refer to them as "PIGS"".

Makes sense.
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Personally, I expect disrespect, racism, and violence from police, based on prior experiences. I’ll call them under specific situations, but I’d never be shocked if they made things worse. I have no objection to people who call them “pigs”.

Don’t like it. Reform the police so they actually solve crimes rather than harassing and attacking random black and brown people.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It would be objectively better if every cop throwing a tantrum over the mere suggestion of accountability for police excesses quit. Like the example of the Portland riot squad that disbanded as a form of protest because one of their own was charged for brutalizing a photojournalist. That decision alone may save the city millions of dollars as the goon squad was the frequent source of expensive lawsuits and was showing no indication they intended to change their ways.

If there's any hope for police reform there must be a cultural shift in these departments, and it's hard to imagine that being possible unless there's significant purging of the most toxic elements. If these people decide to self-select and quit, that saves us a bit of work.
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Unfortunately they only resigned from this extra, voluntary duty not from their actual jobs. Basically a withdrawal of good will / work to rule type action....or a protest if you will.
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
Unfortunately they only resigned from this extra, voluntary duty not from their actual jobs. Basically a withdrawal of good will / work to rule type action....or a protest if you will.
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Sure, they are all still cops.

It's a good thing that the current riot squad has disbanded. As a unit, they were responsible for numerous examples of illegal police violence, some of which are currently working through the court system and will almost certainly result in the city having to pay out substantial damages for civil rights violations.

Their little protest is bound to save the cities budget a serious amount of cash and probably do a lot to ease tensions between the public and police.
 
Good Samaritan who likely stopped a mass shooting was shot dead by responding cops.

DENVER – The Good Samaritan who died in Monday’s shooting in Olde Town Arvada was shot and killed by a police bullet, Denver7 Chief Investigator Tony Kovaleski has confirmed through three informed, ranking sources — including two law enforcement sources.

Arvada Police Officer Gordon Beesley, Good Samaritan John Hurley, and the man believed to be the suspect in the original shooting, 59-year-old Ronald Troyke, all died in the shooting, but Arvada police have not said who was shot by whom.
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https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritan-who-died-in-arvada-shooting-was-shot-by-police-according-to-sources
 
jimbob said:
What is your view on the existence of Homan Square?

What about cops getting tattoos and gang-style initiations for killing people?

What about Chauvin's long history of complaints against him?

What about the DoJ report into policing in Baltimore?

What about the shooting of sleeping people?
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I'm sure someone called them a mean name, which as we all know is illegal in the US, I mean its right there in the constitution: "Congress shall make no law abridging free speach, but saying something mean to a LEO shall be punishable by death at their sole discretion." Freedom ain't free ya know :rolleyes:
 
Just as an aside, I'm finally getting around to watching the second season of The Punisher. One episode ends with Frank standing in a room containing multiple corpses, covered with blood, and holding an assault rifle, as multiple heavily armed police burst into the room. They shout "Drop the weapon and get on your knees" at least three or four times. I couldn't help but think "Damn. Frank's lucky he's white."
 
quadraginta said:
So much for the 'good guy with a gun'.
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A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down.

The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down.

The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.
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This also happened to a guy in Georgia a couple years ago I believe. Only the victims weren't cops. They saw "guy with gun" and started shooting.

Lesson is, don't be a hero. If you conceal carry only draw if thats YOUR best option rather than running away. Unless your OK with your reward being gunned down the split second a LEO think you might potentially maybe be a threat. I'm sure their penalty will be paid vacation and, maybe, having to talk to a shrink.
 
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Third PPB riot squad cop under criminal investigation for assaulting protestors.

This incident was also captured on camera. The cop is seen chasing after fleeing protestors, tackling one, and repeatedly punching the helpless person in the face.

https://www.opb.org/article/2021/06/25/portland-police-possible-charges-3rd-officer-protest-enforcement/

The entire goon squad resigned in protest when one of their members was indicted by a grand jury for an on-camera assault of a photojournalist. That makes 1 indicted, 2 under criminal investigation. The message is clear, cops will resign in protest if the city dares to hold them accountable for criminal misconduct.

Like the other incidents, this example of police brutality is currently the subject of litigation and is likely to cost the city a hefty amount of damages.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
A double dose of irony because the original shooter had targeted and ambushed a cop. This guy was literally out there risking his life to save cops and the pigs thanked him by gunning him down.

The lesson is clear. If you see someone murdering a cop, do not interfere.
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Bias showing much there?

This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Bias showing much there?

This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.
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So there's no lesson about trying to get a suspect to drop their gun? To surrender and submit to arrest? You do get that, unless they saw him shoot someone, the responding cops had a duty to identify themselves and attempt arrest before opening fire, right?

But what the hell. I guess they've got to get their rocks off while they can in the two ******* years before they put on body cameras.
 
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Babbylonian said:
So there's no lesson about trying to get a suspect to drop their gun? To surrender and submit to arrest? You do get that, unless they saw him shoot someone, the responding cops had a duty to identify themselves and attempt arrest before opening fire, right?

But what the hell. I guess they've got to get their rocks off while they can in the two ******* years before they put on body cameras.
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Considering that there is currently no information about what actually happened, you don't know that he wasn't told to drop the weapon and then argued about it. I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.
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Is this a recognition that the police shoot first then ask questions later?
 
PhantomWolf said:
Bias showing much there?

This is the result of something that has been stated a lot over time, that when the police arrive on the scene of an active shooting and you are standing there holding a gun, they aren't going to know you aren't the shooter and you're likely to get shot yourself. The responding officers aren't going to know that the guy in front of them holding a gun was the one that shot the killer of the officer on the ground, so yeah. Something to consider before pulling out your gun and rushing off to play hero.
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Like I said. So much for the 'good guy with a gun'.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Considering that there is currently no information about what actually happened, you don't know that he wasn't told to drop the weapon and then argued about it. I mean for normal people the whole sirens and lights thing might be an indication that not having a gun in your hand while standing over the body of a police officer would probably be a good idea, but hey, you do you.
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We know that he wasn't the criminal and the cops shot him. We therefore know that the cops ****** up. We also know that, because they're cops, they are likely to lie in order to cover up their fatal mistake. So, it might be a good idea for cops to avoid shooting people until they've assessed the situation.
 
Another shooting in recent months in Times Square, in NYC, a heavily visited tourist hotspot.

What's interesting about this is that Times Square is probably one of the most heavily policed public places in all the country, and this is the second time that a heavy police present hasn't stopped a broad daylight shooting nor even prevented the shooter from escaping the scene.

Whenever there's a public concern over crime rates, the kneejerk response always seems to be to throw more money at police departments to put more cops on the streets. Does this actually accomplish anything? How many more cops does Times Square need before people can't commit daylight shootings?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/21-year-marine-injured-times-square-shooting-cd/story?id=78531576&cid=social_twitter_abcn

An article exploring this from the first shooting back in June:

Times Square is one of the most heavily surveilled and policed places in New York City. And yet the NYPD did not prevent, let alone apprehend the shooter. If all of Times Square’s surveillance cameras, armed police officers, and an actual NYPD station were not enough to prevent a shooting, what would do it? Another few hundred cameras? A few dozen more cops with even bigger guns? A robot dog?

At a certain point, we must ask ourselves why, if our primary solution to a problem proves inadequate over and over again, we continue to invest in it. If all the police and surveillance cameras in Times Square were not enough to stop a shooting, why are we to believe more police will prevent violence in already over-policed neighborhoods — ones that are far more frequent sites of shootings than Times Square? In fact, a comprehensive meta-analysis of crime data conducted by the University of Alaska showed that “...crime rates are rarely associated with increases in police force size, and when changes are found they are small.” This study confirms what we already know — that there is no specific relationship between police force size and crime.
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https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-the-real-lesson-of-the-times-square-shootings-20210514-goperjkexvdrrfltj2y22o4bk4-story.html
 
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Fifth Circuit Grants Qualified Immunity To Officers Who Tased Man Soaked in Gasoline, Knowing it Would Light Him on Fire

[T]wo police officers tased the suicidal [Gabriel] Olivas, despite:

1. knowing that he was soaked in gasoline,

2. knowing from recent training that tasers ignite gasoline, and

3. knowing from a fellow officer’s explicit warning in that instant, “If we tase him, he’s going to light on fire!”

They fired their tasers anyway, knowing full well that using a taser was tantamount to using a flamethrower. Olivas burst into flames and later died.
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https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2021/06/the-qualified-immunity-doctrine-insulates-governmental-agents-from-liability-for-unconstitutional-acts-as-long-as-their-co.html
 
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