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Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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Belz... said:
It's easy to say that when you look at select events rather than statistics. You know that most police officers never draw their gun in the course of their careers? And that the US isn't the only country in the world?
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You will note that the post you are responding to doesn't argue for or against any of what you have written.
 
Another incident of a man asphyxiated to death by police restraint.

A Hidden Death
Last year a Eugene man was arrested during a mental health crisis. He died two days after deputies knelt on his back at the Lane County Jail.

The unnecessary arrest flipped Payne from panic into delirium. The EPD officers refused to take Payne to a hospital and insisted he be booked in the Lane County Jail. At the jail, sheriff’s deputies pinned Payne face down on a concrete floor in order to control him. At least two deputies placed their knees on Payne’s back, according to documents and a video of the incident reviewed by EW.

At one point, a gasping Payne told deputies, “I can’t breathe.”

Payne’s heart stopped 63 seconds after that. Deputies and emergency medical technicians applied CPR for nearly 20 minutes before restarting his heart. But the damage was done. Payne died at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Medical Center at RiverBend two days later.
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http://eugeneweekly.com/2021/07/22/a-hidden-death/

The killing of George Floyd was only unusual in that it was captured on camera and occurred in an especially cruel, publicly performative manner. Police routinely use these dangerous, prolonged restraints on people occasionally resulting in death.
 
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PhantomWolf said:
I suspect that there is somewhat a sample bias in this. The headline "Nice cop gives motorist warning and wishes them a pleasant day." just doesn't sell papers.

It's like suspecting all teachers of being pedophiles because of the many headlines about the ones that are.
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The post you are responding to doesn't go into how many bad cops there are versus how many good cops there are. It states that "so many" transgress at the slightest opportunity to do so.

The amount of "bad" as percentage of "good" is irrelevant to my point.
 
Belz... said:
It's easy to say that when you look at select events rather than statistics. You know that most police officers never draw their gun in the course of their careers? And that the US isn't the only country in the world?
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I know that is stated as a fact, but I also know how often cops draw their guns as habit when there is no clear need for it. So I question how accurate that is and what the source of this so called statistic is.
 
Belz... said:
But that's not what I was addressing. I was initially responding to Thermal's claim that all people who become cops want to control people through violence. That's simply not true.
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It certainly is true for some percentage of the police population. Then there is the percentage who did not seek that out but become accustomed to using force.

Where are the studies that go in depth on how much this is someone's motivation for joining the police, or are you simply making an assumption?
 
Belz... said:
It's untrue that most police officers never need to use their guns?
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That is a change though, before it was draw their guns and now it is fire their guns. Then of course there is the whole issue of cops drawing and firing their guns when it is not actually needed.
 
Babbylonian said:
I was agreeing with you. Does that change your interpretation of what I wrote?
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No it doesn't. If you're agreeing with only to say something that says the opposite, you're not agreeing with me. My point is that there can be a problem with police culture in the US without every cop being a tyrannical monster who enrolled in order to beat people up.
 
Belz... said:
If you're agreeing, why did you say "and yet"? For funsies?
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No, I said "and yet" because, despite the fact many never or seldom resort to violence, "so many" do. It's a simple statement of fact.

"Yet" was being used conjunctively.
 
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Belz... said:
No it doesn't. If you're agreeing with only to say something that says the opposite, you're not agreeing with me. My point is that there can be a problem with police culture in the US without every cop being a tyrannical monster who enrolled in order to beat people up.
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.... and yet so many are and did.

:duck:
 
Belz... said:
No it doesn't. If you're agreeing with only to say something that says the opposite, you're not agreeing with me. My point is that there can be a problem with police culture in the US without every cop being a tyrannical monster who enrolled in order to beat people up.
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Yea they just cover up for them, that is of course fine and acceptable behavior one expects.
 
Belz... said:
No it doesn't. If you're agreeing with only to say something that says the opposite, you're not agreeing with me. My point is that there can be a problem with police culture in the US without every cop being a tyrannical monster who enrolled in order to beat people up.
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You wildly misinterpreted what I said. I've learned my lesson, though.
 
Belz... said:
No it doesn't. If you're agreeing with only to say something that says the opposite, you're not agreeing with me. My point is that there can be a problem with police culture in the US without every cop being a tyrannical monster who enrolled in order to beat people up.
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THIS.THIS.THIS.
 
Bogative said:
They care about the "**** the police" angle, not him.
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Well the police are the problem not the victims. It's systemic and affects whites as well as other races, but racism adds to the mix and means that blacks are affected worse.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Seems there's a lot of begging the question when it comes to the idea that flooding the streets with cops will actually prevent violent crime. Driving away from an active shooting is probably not a good PR move for these departments desperately trying to justify their bloated budgets.
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link?
 
bonzombiekitty said:
That's a given. That's why I said "on the other end of things".... For those sort of people who think that the end justify the means. I.e. "he didn't have drugs on him, but I KNOW he's a dealer so I planted them to get him off the street"

If your primary concern is that the bad guys go to jail, so you'd look the other way if it meant bad guys going to jail, then this sort of action means a lot of actual bad guys may go free.
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I'm fine with some guilty being released, especially if they were minor drug possessions.

Maybe the negative press will get these depts to clean up their act (pfft). Freeing convicted criminals can't be a good look.
 
Bogative said:
They care about the "**** the police" angle, not him.
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There's also something to be said about the George Floyd protests not being so much about the experience of George Floyd, specifically, as it was about the way that so very many people, especially black people, have been unreasonably and unjustly screwed over by the police. "**** the police when they openly commit serious crimes whereever they feel like, knowing that they almost certainly won't be held accountable" is actually a reasonable angle to care about.
 
2 NYPD cops raped a 15 year old girl who was participating in a police youth cadets program.

Two NYPD cops raped a vulnerable teen member of the police youth program, cruelly taking advantage of the underage girl to “satisfy their depraved interests,” an internal department judge has ruled.

The officers’ “shocking professional and sexual misconduct” included behavior from one of them that “would cause any responsible adult, let alone a parent, to recoil in horror,” the NYPD judge wrote in a scathing ruling made public last week.

Then-Officers Sanad Musallam and Yaser Shohatee “targeted’’ the girl, who was 15 at the time and a member of the NYPD’s Explorers program, according to the disciplinary documents.

Musallam and Shohatee, now 34 and 41, respectively, separately raped her amid dozens of phone chats and hundreds of text exchanges, which included “sexually explicit” photos, between 2015 and 2016, the records claim.
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Apparently it takes 4 years to fire a couple of pedophile cops. No criminal charges have been pursued for either the rapes or the possession of child pornography.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/27/two-nypd-cops-fired-over-alleged-sexual-misconduct-with-teen/
 
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Aurora PD is at it again. This time they actually arrested the gang members police officers involved.

Two Cops Were Arrested After One Of Them Pistol-Whipped And Choked An Unarmed Man

Two police officers in Colorado were arrested Tuesday after disturbing video showed one of them using his gun to repeatedly hit an unarmed man on his head, choke him, and threaten to shoot him, as the man bled from his head and pleaded for his life.
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Warning: The body cam video is really hard to watch



During Tuesday's press conference, [police chief] Wilson attempted to reassure the community that her department was focused on reform and training and that officers would be fired “if this is how they police.”

“This was an anomaly,” she said.
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An anomaly? Elijah McClain would like a word. Oh, he can't your officers killed him. Maybe that black family your officers held at gunpoint would like to disagree?

It very much is starting to seem like "this is how you police".
 
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Oh please - how is it unnecessarily violent? I mean to paraphrase the police officers: "Excuse me Sir, could you please get on your face whilst my colleague is pushing you backwards onto the ground, thank you for you co-operation".
 
Darat said:
Oh please - how is it unnecessarily violent? I mean to paraphrase the police officers: "Excuse me Sir, could you please get on your face whilst my colleague is pushing you backwards onto the ground, thank you for you co-operation".
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"Also please ignore the gun pressed against your head whilst my colleague is yelling "I'll shoot you" into your face. We of course expect you to act rationally and calm in this situation."
 
California Highway Patrol did a hit-and-run on a 14 year old child.

A mother is seeking justice for her teenage son who showed up at his home with serious injuries after allegedly being hit by a California Highway Patrol officer who drove off in East Los Angeles.

Isaac Cota, 14, was riding his bicycle in East L.A. at around 9 p.m. on June 27 during a community car show near Whittier Boulevard and Williamson Avenue when the incident happened, according to his mother, Sara Cervantes.
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https://ktla.com/news/mother-seeks-justice-for-teenage-son-allegedly-injured-by-chp-in-east-l-a-hit-and-run/
 
The dumpster that is the NYPD is wide open for inquiring eyes.

Brooklyn DA Releases Massive Trove Of Internal Documents On NYPD Misconduct

“Mass protests and organizing over police brutality last summer led New York lawmakers to repeal the state’s secrecy law on police disciplinary records,” said Gideon Oliver, a public records attorney who negotiated the release on behalf of Gothamist/WNYC. “This is just the kind of mass disclosure that every prosecutor’s office in our state should do to meet that promise of transparency.”
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https://gothamist.com/news/brooklyn-da-releases-massive-trove-internal-documents-nypd-misconduct

Whole lot of rotten apples out there.
 
Five Miami Beach cops charged after pummeling two men in hotel lobby. Video released
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A mob of cops beat a handcuffed, face-down man before turning their attention and attacking a bystander that was filming the arrest. Hotel lobby cameras captured one cop kicking the fully restrained person in the head on 3 different occasions. Body cameras captures another cop tackling the video recording bystander without provocation before several other cops join in the extrajudicial beating.

The man video recording was arrested and charged with impeding an officer and resisting arrest with violence before the video was reviewed and charges dropped.

I guess the cops did learn something from the Floyd murder, beat and arrest anyone who dares to record their illegal use of excessive force.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article253191533.html#storylink=cpy

 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
A mob of cops beat a handcuffed, face-down man before turning their attention and attacking a bystander that was filming the arrest. Hotel lobby cameras captured one cop kicking the fully restrained person in the head on 3 different occasions. Body cameras captures another cop tackling the video recording bystander without provocation before several other cops join in the extrajudicial beating.
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Jesus. The guy is on the ground, complying (granted, after running) and seems to be under control. Then another cop shows up... then another... and another.... and another... and another... and another... and another... and another.... and another... and another... and another....

It's like there's a clown car of cops just off screen.
 
bonzombiekitty said:
Jesus. The guy is on the ground, complying (granted, after running) and seems to be under control. Then another cop shows up... then another... and another.... and another... and another... and another... and another... and another.... and another... and another... and another....

It's like there's a clown car of cops just off screen.
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Pack of feral hogs.
 
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bonzombiekitty said:
It's like there's a clown car of cops just off screen.
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I had no idea how many officers there would be when I read your post. Criminal violence on their part aside, that was damned funny.

But I guess if they start beating up bystanders filming, it would discourage that practice. Smart. Evil, but smart.
 
Darat said:
Oh please - how is it unnecessarily violent? I mean to paraphrase the police officers: "Excuse me Sir, could you please get on your face whilst my colleague is pushing you backwards onto the ground, thank you for you co-operation".
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Indeed - was just going to post that he couldn't roll onto his face as the other cop was pulling back on his arm, preventing him rolling over...
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
A mob of cops beat a handcuffed, face-down man before turning their attention and attacking a bystander that was filming the arrest. Hotel lobby cameras captured one cop kicking the fully restrained person in the head on 3 different occasions. Body cameras captures another cop tackling the video recording bystander without provocation before several other cops join in the extrajudicial beating.

The man video recording was arrested and charged with impeding an officer and resisting arrest with violence before the video was reviewed and charges dropped.

I guess the cops did learn something from the Floyd murder, beat and arrest anyone who dares to record their illegal use of excessive force.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article253191533.html#storylink=cpy

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_7410561092cb1da5d3.png[/qimg]
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Holy hell that was a tough watch. Only 5 charged? Again, the cops that don't stop their buddies should be at least somewhat responsible, too.
 
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chrispy said:
Holy hell that was a tough watch. Only 5 charged? Again, the cops that don't stop there buddies should be at least somewhat responsible, too.
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"A good cop that stops other cops from brutalizing people" is so rare it may as well be a cryptid like the sasquatch or Nessie.
 
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