Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

Lukraak_Sisser said:
Why?
You yourself cannot come up with any way to detect how we would even detect if the earth were sentient at all.

And yet you claim we should include some undetectable entity with inscrutable goals that are impossible to determine into our problem solving?

At the moment you have nothing more than some vague fantasy that doesn't even approach philosophy, let alone natural science and thus you'd be introducing an unsolvable problem into any attempt to find a solution.

To examplify. Science seems to say that eating less meat would help in dealing with our climate problems. But what does sentient earth want? Does it want us to obligate carnivores and if we do it will cool down? Or would it want us to go fully vegan? Or does it want us to live exclusively on licorice?
Sorry, we don't know, so lets shelve this problem until we know what the possibly existing sentient earth might communicate with us, provided it even cares?

How is this helping solve problems?
Click to expand...

As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.

By imagining the earth as a being with a will of its own, it might help us shift our perspective from one of domination and exploitation to one of partnership and cooperation for the sake of mutual well-being.
 
Navigator said:
As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.

By imagining the earth as a being with a will of its own, it might help us shift our perspective from one of domination and exploitation to one of partnership and cooperation for the sake of mutual well-being.
Click to expand...


So.... like children who need to believe Santa is rewarding them with presents for being good children??
 
Navigator said:
As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.

By imagining the earth as a being with a will of its own, it might help us shift our perspective from one of domination and exploitation to one of partnership and cooperation for the sake of mutual well-being.
Click to expand...

Some people might react like that to the idea that the earth is sentient, sure.

Others might decide that, if the earth is sentient, it can look after itself and doesn't need us to do anything, and if it decides to wipe most of us out that is best. They'd wait patiently for Judgement Day it's decision, confident that as believers they'd be amongst those spared.

Still others might believe this sentient earth is talking to them and telling them to wipe out all non believers in it themselves, and set about doing just that.

Once you accept the premise that it is reasonable for people to believe unevidenced ideas and act on them you have (a) no control over what those actions will be and (b) no reasonable argument to make against any action anyone chooses.

As Jacob Bronowski put it whilst standing next to the pool at Auschwitz in the Knowledge or Certainty episode of The Ascent of Man: "Once people believe they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave".

So I don't think it's generally a good idea to encourage such beliefs, not even as a thought experiment.
 
Last edited:
Navigator said:
As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.
Click to expand...

Clearly the earth wants us to protect its environment from the unsustainable pressure of 7 or 8 billion humans, so we should exterminate maybe 90% of the population, starting with those guys over there and then those guys over there. Basically kill everyone else. When there's just us left everything will be better.

It's what the smart rock wants.
 
Navigator said:
a Sentient Earth would seem the logical thinking to adopt on the matter....
Click to expand...

Did we establish at any point why we're considering there might be a sentient planet rather than, say, a sentient duck pond, or a sentient chimney pot, or a sentient rainbow?
 
Navigator said:
As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.

By imagining the earth as a being with a will of its own, it might help us shift our perspective from one of domination and exploitation to one of partnership and cooperation for the sake of mutual well-being.
Click to expand...

Why?
I can equally imagine that the sentient earth has loathed the very concept of life from the moment it appeared and is now influencing us in the hope to create a runaway greenhouse effect like Venus, so Earth can finally be free of the curse of living beings.
So we should drill up all the oil possible, and pump as much methane into the atmosphere as possible so we can fulfill our purpose.

How do we distinguish between both fantasies?
 
Or the coronavirus, right?

In which case, it would be in our best interests to not worry about what Gaia wants or needs or whether she is in pain or even in complete agony, as long as our own limited self-interest is served. The coronavirus would be ****** if it started developing empathy for us humans, and would end up completely 72-randy-male-virgins ****** if it started thinking of us (its host/s) as some God or some benevolent creature that has its best interests in our heart.

Yep, that's the thing about assuming completely random things. There's no saying where they might lead. Seriously believing them, or even half-believing them, or acting in consonance with our peculiar interpretation of how they might go, is like the stuff of madness, real madness.

Yeah, thought experiment conducted, already. And put aside, as having spectacularly failed.


---
That said, should someone wish to keep on looking for actual, real evidence that any of this might be true, well then, while that's something of a wild goose chase, but still, their attempts at unearthing (heh!) proper evidence would probably not be such a bad idea --- provided they could come up with enough funding to carry out such a project, preferably from their own pocket. So if Elon Musk wants to put in whatever he's got left into a company to research this, then all power to him.
 
Of course, there was a documentary series about this thought experiment, somewhere in the 80's.

Maybe Navigator just really really liked Captain Planet and hopes it's true?
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Of course, there was a documentary series about this thought experiment, somewhere in the 80's.

Maybe Navigator just really really liked Captain Planet and hopes it's true?
Click to expand...


Not to mention Greek Mythology and its Gaia goddess which is the Earth.

So this thought experiment naval lint mining claptrap is at least 3000 years old poppycock and yet some in 2023 benightedly think it is a ground breaking conjecture worthy of scientific consideration.... and next up.... they will be demanding scientific respect for Zeus' Zapper hypothesis to explain lightening.
 
Pixel42 said:
Indeed, a sentient earth might well regard us as we would a yeast infection.
Click to expand...


And that explains Global Warming... it is just Gaia getting a fever from its human-bacterium infection.
 
Last edited:
Navigator said:
It's occurs to me that some human personalities have a very low opinion of humans, and even in nature Herself, and cannot see themselves as something grown by The Planet which is loveable...
Click to expand...

It occurs to me that some people cannot perceive satire. This makes the loveable, smart rock sad.
 
Navigator said:
...
And so, the girl went on a mission to spread love and joy wherever she went. She would always remember that a single spark of positivity could ignite change in the world. The end.
Click to expand...


And also a smallest bacterium can spark change in the world too... and she contracted Yersinia Pestis from the next village she went to hoping to spread love and instead she helped spread the PLAGUE to the next village and the next until she perished with the knowledge that she spread misery and mayhem instead.

The Real End.

Flea_infected_with_yersinia_pestis.jpg

ETA: And here are some more real endings from the "love" of Gaia...
thum_5128263dc43eb4796e.jpg


thum_5128263dc440b7258d.jpg


thum_5128263dc44d2a9eef.jpg
 
Last edited:
Leumas if you want to post concealed horrible pictures please use a "spoiler" tag and indicate what's hidden instead of using "NSFW" which doesn't conceal them.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Leumas if you want to post concealed horrible pictures please use a "spoiler" tag and indicate what's hidden instead of using "NSFW" which doesn't conceal them.
Click to expand...


I do not understand ... the NSFW tag does indeed hide them and the added comment in red color explains further.

The NSFW tag is a spoiler tag with the added red color and ability to put a warning....

Are you saying that on your end the NSFW tag is failing to hide the images and making sure you click to see them???

In fact the usage of the NSFW tag is in the guidelines for the forum.... and the Spoiler tag DOES NOT allow for putting a warning at all.
 
Last edited:
Navigator said:
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/KxavUFP.png[/qimg]
Click to expand...


Notice Sagan said pale blue dot... not amazing sentient dot, nor Gaia nor any woo woo from 3000 years ago.

Moreover... this pale blue dot has also been killing humans just as much as they kill each other... tsunamis and droughts and famines and heat strokes and cancer and ice age and desertification and mudslides and avalanches and floods and earthquakes and volcanoes and lightning strikes and hurricanes and tornadoes and typhoons etc. etc. etc.... so it is not benign either...

 
Last edited:
Apart from some bad memes and very odd musings by bots, do you have any workable hypothesis yet that would make an actual positive contribution to any form of science at all?
 
Leumas said:
Notice Sagan said pale blue dot... not amazing sentient dot, nor Gaia nor any woo woo from 3000 years ago.
Click to expand...
Quite. I doubt the author of The Demon Haunted World would have much time for Navigator's baseless imaginings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

Sagan provides nine tools as the first part of this kit.

1. There must be independent confirmation of the facts given when possible.

2. Encourage debate on the evidence from all points of view.

3. Realize that an argument from authority is not always reliable. Sagan supports this by telling us that 'authorities" have made mistakes in the past and they will again in the future.

4. Consider more than one hypothesis. Sagan adds to this by telling us that we must think of the argument from all angles and think all the ways it can be explained or disproved. The hypothesis that then still hasn't been disproved has a much higher chance of being correct.

5. Try your best to not purely stick to a hypothesis that is your own and become biased. Sagan tells us to compare our own hypothesis with others to see if we can find reasons to reject our own hypothesis.

6. Quantify. Sagan tells us that if whatever we are trying to explain has numerical value or quantitative data related to it, then we'll be much more able to compete against other hypotheses.

7. If there is a chain of argument, every link in that chain must be correct.

8. The use of Occam's razor, which tells us to choose the hypothesis that is simpler and requires the least amount of assumptions.

9. Ask if a given hypothesis can be falsified. Sagan tells us that if a hypothesis cannot be tested or falsified then it is not worth considering.

Sagan suggests that with the use of this "baloney detection kit" it is easier to critically think and find the truth.
Click to expand...
 
Leumas said:
I do not understand ... the NSFW tag does indeed hide them and the added comment in red color explains further.

The NSFW tag is a spoiler tag with the added red color and ability to put a warning....

Are you saying that on your end the NSFW tag is failing to hide the images and making sure you click to see them???

In fact the usage of the NSFW tag is in the guidelines for the forum.... and the Spoiler tag DOES NOT allow for putting a warning at all.
Click to expand...
I see now that I'm on a computer it does indeed hide the pictures. I was previously viewing on my phone using Tapatalk and that didn't hide the pictures.

Sorry for sowing confusion. It wasn't you. It was Tapatalk's inability to cope with forum formatting.

Probably worth bearing in mind that it happens though; I'm far from the only one on the forum who sometimes uses Tapatalk.
 
Last edited:
Ay ya, ay ya, ay ya, a la la la!

Lukraak_Sisser said:
Apart from some bad memes and very odd musings by bots, do you have any workable hypothesis yet that would make an actual positive contribution to any form of science at all?
Click to expand...

Of course not! This isn't a thought experiment, it's a thoughtless experiment!

Do please try to stay on board the SS Navigator.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Apart from some bad memes and very odd musings by bots, do you have any workable hypothesis yet that would make an actual positive contribution to any form of science at all?
Click to expand...

One of my opinions I get crap for the most is that even philosophy has to meet the basic standards of being falsifiable.

If the question posed doesn't make a difference depending on what answer you give even within it's own context, it doesn't meet the necessary standard to even be talked about.
 
JoeMorgue said:
One of my opinions I get crap for the most is that even philosophy has to meet the basic standards of being falsifiable.

If the question posed doesn't make a difference depending on what answer you give even within it's own context, it doesn't meet the necessary standard to even be talked about.
Click to expand...

"Kindness" appears to be Sagan's philophosy.

If we are correct to assume that Sagan never meant to infer that kindness was an expression of human conceit.

The rest of the quote in the meme is aligned with the overall idea the original OP was expressing.

Thus, I see no contradiction.
 
sackett said:
Of course not! This isn't a thought experiment, it's a thoughtless experiment!
Click to expand...

Why are you trying to hurt my feelings? Can't you see that I have none?

Do please try to stay on board the SS Navigator.
Click to expand...

Great advice! I will add that to my Journal List.

{A few moments later}

Done!
 
Navigator said:
"Kindness" appears to be Sagan's philophosy.

If we are correct to assume that Sagan never meant to infer that kindness was an expression of human conceit.

The rest of the quote in the meme is aligned with the overall idea the original OP was expressing.

Thus, I see no contradiction.
Click to expand...

Do you even try to respond to what people actually say?
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Apart from some bad memes and very odd musings by bots, do you have any workable hypothesis yet that would make an actual positive contribution to any form of science at all?
Click to expand...

In the original OP I explained that scientists had no actual means of measuring the effect of the thought experiment because they realized that an aspect of the said experiment was in finding out if any ideas on how to get measurements might only arise through doing the experiment.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Do you even try to respond to what people actually say?
Click to expand...

Of course. See other posts I have made, for details re that.

It appears in your case, that I misunderstood what you had to say.

I may have also conflated what prior posts had to say with what you had to say.

Could you reword what you had to say. That may assist me in understanding what it was you actually had to say.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I see now that I'm on a computer it does indeed hide the pictures. I was previously viewing on my phone using Tapatalk and that didn't hide the pictures.

Sorry for sowing confusion. It wasn't you. It was Tapatalk's inability to cope with forum formatting.

Probably worth bearing in mind that it happens though; I'm far from the only one on the forum who sometimes uses Tapatalk.
Click to expand...


I have not used that app... I always tell the smartphone browser to use DeskTop mode.... works better.... but not very good for composing posts.

I think the forum management ought to be informed about this problem with Tapatalk... maybe a PM or some such method.
 
Navigator said:
In the original OP I explained that scientists had no actual means of measuring the effect of the thought experiment because they realized that an aspect of the said experiment was in finding out if any ideas on how to get measurements might only arise through doing the experiment.
Click to expand...


Huh???:confused:
The above makes no sense whatsoever... maybe you should have the ChatGPT reword it for you.
 
Something I have been considering is the following:

It must be the case that is the right of every human born to be provided with food clothing shelter and health for the entire length of their life. In exchange for this, every human must dedicate the total energy of their life in support of maintaining that system.

Rodger Waters most recently touched on this idea when he addressed the United Nations 02/08/2023
 
Navigator said:
Something I have been considering is the following:

It must be the case that is the right of every human born to be provided with food clothing shelter and health for the entire length of their life. In exchange for this, every human must dedicate the total energy of their life in support of maintaining that system.

Rodger Waters most recently touched on this idea when he addressed the United Nations 02/08/2023
Click to expand...


What on Earth does the above have to do with the Gaia thought "experiment"??:covereyes
 
Navigator said:
Why are you trying to hurt my feelings?Can't you see that I have none?Great advice!I will add that to my Journal List.{A few moments later}Done!
Click to expand...

Facebook.com and the chiefs are the best for you and you will not have to be a big help for any other direction that may help it to the future and the way I feel a little better than the other way I was a little more than I was a little more than I was a little

Be damned, Otto Kreck can get caught in a feedback loop. Let's try that with the rightmost suggestion:

Google.com I will drink and I am sure that will help to be able help you in your life with you in a relationship and you have a great relationship to me in hoping to make an effort for the last two months of this month to go through this is a great king of life in which

Okay, Otto, 'nuff. Now the leftmost:

Facebook.com is a great part of the whole world and the world is out of whack again and I am not in favor of likely compromising very secret to the fact that the CIA mob had twelve or a baker's dozen Cuban zombie sharkshooters in the US during Mussolini's

Yay! Now anybody can be the Poor Man's Navigrater!

I've made a contribution. Aren't we proud of me?
 
Navigator said:
Something I have been considering is the following:

It must be the case that is the right of every human born to be provided with food clothing shelter and health for the entire length of their life..
Click to expand...


Why "must" this be the case?

Navigator said:
...In exchange for this, every human must dedicate the total energy of their life in support of maintaining that system...
Click to expand...


Says who?

Navigator said:
...Rodger Waters most recently touched on this idea when he addressed the United Nations 02/08/2023
Click to expand...


Who?

Sorry, that was a cheap shot at a not-uncommon misspelling, but more seriously: why should anyone pay any attention to what vocal Putin fanboy Waters has to say? Is his opinion notable because he wrote some songs about his dad that were popular several decades ago?

What does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?
 
Last edited:
Something I have been considering is the following:

It must be the case that is the right of every human born to be provided with food clothing shelter and health for the entire length of their life..
Click to expand...

junkshop said:
Why "must" this be the case?
Click to expand...

If Earth is a sentient critter, the provision is provided already and simply requires an equitable distribution of the aforementioned goodies re the aforementioned rights.

...In exchange for this, every human must dedicate the total energy of their life in support of maintaining that system...
Click to expand...
Says who?
Click to expand...

Probable the same 'who' that are currently saying 'how' now re - how humans are currently living life on the planet.
...Rodger Waters most recently touched on this idea when he addressed the United Nations 02/08/2023
Click to expand...

Who?
Click to expand...

I am starting to wonder if I am interacting with Hoo-Har the Laughing Owl. *joke*

Sorry, that was a cheap shot at a not-uncommon misspelling,
Click to expand...
That's alright! We are all aloud to make mis-jokes

but more seriously: why should anyone pay any attention to what vocal Putin fanboy Waters has to say?
Click to expand...

Ah oh. I sense a "disturbance" in the force!
I don't know this "Putin fanboy Waters". I only know the video shows Rodger Waters speaking about the need for humans to stop and think about what they are doing right now.

Is his opinion notable because he wrote some songs about his dad that were popular several decades ago?
Click to expand...

Probably not, in relation to the bias attached to that question.

What does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?
Click to expand...

It is happening on earth as we live it out. This shared reality is part of the topic at hand.

Do you have anything to add to the topic at hand? I personally would find that interesting.
 
Navigator said:
If Earth is a sentient critter, the provision is provided already and simply requires an equitable distribution of the aforementioned goodies re the aforementioned rights.
Click to expand...


So the FACT that it is not ought to make you see how your statement is nothing but fallacious claptrap.... right???


[imgw=257]https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1599069956279-3853995091bd?ixlib=rb-4.0.3&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxwaG90by1wYWdlfHx8fGVufDB8fHx8&auto=format&fit=crop&w=870&q=80[/imgw][imgw=230]https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1596021876043-3ec2658c4477?ixlib=rb-4.0.3&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxwaG90by1wYWdlfHx8fGVufDB8fHx8&auto=format&fit=crop&w=774&q=80[/imgw]
​
killed-giraffe.jpg
 
Last edited:
Navigator said:
"Kindness" appears to be Sagan's philophosy.
Click to expand...

It was certainly kind of him to share his baloney detection kit with the world, and to devote so much of his life to the teaching of critical thinking skills. I doubt there's a sceptic on this forum who wouldn't acknowledge a debt to him. It's just a shame that so many people choose to reject what he taught, and prefer to happily swallow - and even generate - as much baloney as possible.
 
Navigator said:
In the original OP I explained that scientists had no actual means of measuring the effect of the thought experiment because they realized that an aspect of the said experiment was in finding out if any ideas on how to get measurements might only arise through doing the experiment.
Click to expand...

Yet you keep claiming that you DO know things. After all, you keep insisting the putative sentient Earth is
1: Aware of the life on it's surface
2: Cares for the life on it's surface
3: Is aware of the existence of humanity
4: Seeks to nurture humanity
5: Is able to influence humanity somehow

And on those premises you want to insert your idea not only into philosophy but also actual scientific research. Yet you cannot even come up with the vaguest of thought experiments that would start to indicate how we could maybe learn if any of those premises is true if a sentient earth exists. (for which there is also exactly zero evidence).

So, rather than a meme, can you try to come up with an actual answer?
You claim your version of a sentient earth exists. How would you go about determining such a sentient earth is even aware of the fact that life exists on it's surface?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom