Ed General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 3

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Hamas has perhaps 1,000 regular combatants...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-fighters-bodies-israel-toll-gaza-ground-invasion-rcna119640

and
"More than 2,000 armed men entered Israeli territory through 29 breaches in the barrier surrounding the Gaza Strip." -LeMonde, France
On Oct 7th, the IDF claimed that 1500 Hamas men lay dead inside Israel, after they encountered armed Jews who counterattacked and brought the onslaught to an end. Many accounts of the Israelis who fought back are being revealed by the media.

Hamas is doomed.
 
webfusion said:
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What specific hotel in Qatar are you referring to?
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The one that has the bloody terrorists in it and that the IDF should bomb into a crater as they did in Gaza...

Why is the IDF even pretending to be after Hamas when they have them sitting in a hotel in Qatar and they know it?

It is as much of a lie as the lies of Netanyahu about history and reality, that they are after the terrorists' leaders... they know they are in Qatar right now.... why don't they go after them instead of carrying out more ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Palestinians?
 
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webfusion said:
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Israel has no animosity towards Gazans. We'll live with them as national neighbors, we'll provide opportunities for work, study, tourism, etc. in our country, just as we've done in the past.
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That is not true... and the past proves it...

But not just the past... the present too... the West Bank has no Hamas... no? How are they fairing in their ghettos and concentration camps?

What about Jerusalem?

You know that REALITIES of the past and present prove your above assertions utterly not true.

Why not declare one state for all and stop the APARTHEID and ethnic cleansing and racism and persecution just like the Afrikaans did in South Africa?

That is the only solution that the descendants of the victims of the holocaust should ever feel morally comfortable with.

If the victims of the holocaust do not want to be abusers JUST THE SAME as they were abused then they need to STOP abusing people the same way they were abused.

Israel has the power to do that... if only they were not adamant about going on with their SETTLER COLONIALISM.
 
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webfusion said:
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Israel has no animosity towards Gazans. We'll live with them as national neighbors, we'll provide opportunities for work, study, tourism, etc. in our country, just as we've done in the past.
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That is not true... and the past proves it...

Moshe Dayan said:
A generation of settlement are we, and without the steel helmet and the maw of the cannon we shall not plant a tree, nor build a house. Our children shall not have lives to live if we do not dig shelters; and without the barbed wire fence and the machine gun, we shall not pave a path nor drill for water.
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Brainster said:
Meanwhile, Hamas keeps offering eternal peace to the Israelis:
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To borrow a tweet -

Hamas: “we will repeat the October 7 massacre time and again, 1M times if we need to, until we end the occupation.“

Journalist: “occupation of Gaza?”

Hamas: “no, all of Israel.”
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Ahh, so very open to non-violent solutions.


Planigale said:
So how do you rate the tank shooting a car that was driving away? It seems like targeting non-combatants who are no immediate threat. Pretty much a war crime?
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There's a serious problem here with simply jumping to the assumption that a war crime occurred, just like it is when it comes to assuming that the dead kids should be treated as blood on Israel's hands. Quite literally, it is standard practice for Hamas to use schools, hospitals, and civilian things of all kinds for military purposes, which turns them into legitimate military targets. Hamas soldiers also have a history of not using uniforms.

A fair bit more along those lines can be said, but it pretty well boils down to "We cannot responsibly just assume that *insert nth claim of Israeli war crime against civilians* actually is an Israeli war crime when Israel is fighting a foe that has long made it standard practice to pretend that its military targets are actually civilian and ensure that civilian casualties are very likely to happen if Israel ever hits its military back seriously."
 
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Leumas said:
The one that has the bloody terrorists in it and that the IDF should bomb into a crater as they did in Gaza...

Why is the IDF even pretending to be after Hamas when they have them sitting in a hotel in Qatar and they know it?

It is as much of a lie as the lies of Netanyahu about history and reality, that they are after the terrorists' leaders... they know they are in Qatar right now.... why don't they go after them instead of carrying out more ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Palestinians?
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What drugs are you on that you even pretend to think that Israel committing a serious act of war against Qatar would be even remotely sane, much less appropriate, reasonable, or whatever other similar descriptor you want to invoke?
 
Aridas said:
What drugs are you on that you even pretend to think that Israel committing a serious act of war against Qatar would be even remotely sane, much less appropriate, reasonable, or whatever other similar descriptor you want to invoke?
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Self-indulgent narcissism with a Wikipedia chaser?
 
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webfusion said:
This conflict is not just between two sides.
It never has been, dating back all the way to the late 1800's.
Some of the participants in the conflict have indeed learned a lesson regarding rationality and self-interests. Jordan's King certainly understood which side of his toast gets the butter. Gen Sisi seems to know what's up. Even our arch-nemesis Assad jr. up there in Damascus, he's grokking.
Lebanon has a bit of a problem even functioning at all on any given day, so the last thing they want is a quick trip back into the Bronze Age.

Israel may be guilty of many things, but tossing rationality and comprehension out the window is not one of the faults displayed these days by the Israeli leadership and military.
They're making sure they cross their t's and dot their i's with the knowledge that the ICC is watching closely. Every mission is scrutinized beforehand by legal teams, literally.
Hamas, not so much.
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This conflict is between men of violence, who stupidly think if they are more violent than those they oppose, those men of violence will back down. They are egotistical, arrogant, power hungry narcissists, who think nothing of sending others to fight and innocents will die. They are hypocrites who are quick to condemn others, for what they would justify doing themselves. They will use past events to excuse themselves and blame everyone, but themselves.

The only solution is if men who are prepared to compromise, work together, negotiate get into power, which is highly unlikely. Women will never get a look in, so their less aggressive influence will have no effect.
 
Nessie said:
This conflict is between men of violence, who stupidly think if they are more violent than those they oppose, those men of violence will back down. They are egotistical, arrogant, power hungry narcissists, who think nothing of sending others to fight and innocents will die. They are hypocrites who are quick to condemn others, for what they would justify doing themselves. They will use past events to excuse themselves and blame everyone, but themselves.

The only solution is if men who are prepared to compromise, work together, negotiate get into power, which is highly unlikely. Women will never get a look in, so their less aggressive influence will have no effect.
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Well said!!!

I will just add that the self-righteousness of a person convinced that there is a god on his side is one of the most egregious insanities that humanity has normalized.
 
What happens when a woman speaks out

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720057376823234752

"A mother cries over the body of her son who was killed in an Israeli airstrike against Gaza.
She sees a journalist’s camera and screams “this all happened because of those Hamas dogs”.
A “rescue-worker” grabs her face and tells her to “shut up”"
 
Nessie said:
What happens when a woman speaks out

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720057376823234752

"A mother cries over the body of her son who was killed in an Israeli airstrike against Gaza.
She sees a journalist’s camera and screams “this all happened because of those Hamas dogs”.
A “rescue-worker” grabs her face and tells her to “shut up”"
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This proves the fact that Hamas is yet another of the myriad of venal dictatorial leaderships of the Arab world.

And the fact that they are now luxuriating in a 7-stars hotel in Qatar while their people are being slaughtered is yet another proof.

And the more pertinent point here is that Netanyahu lies when he says he wants all the Hamas leaders before he stops the genocide.

He knows that they are in Qatar and thus does not need to keep slaughtering the victims of Hamas and of himself.

So the fact that he continues the slaughter is indicative that it is yet another of his all but endless lies and he does not care to actually stop Hamas at all... but he would rather they continue being an excuse for him to carry out the genocide and ethnic cleansing as his FINAL SOLUTION for the problem called the Palestinians.

Ah... not to mention also as a good diversion from his corruption and failures and to shut up any opposition to him.
 
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trustbutverify said:
DIRTY LIES!!!
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I presume you are being sarcastic.

She said, "this all happened because of those Hamas dogs”.

Not IDF dogs, not Israeli dogs, but Hamas. She blames Hamas for the death of her son. The person who tells her to shut up is presumably a Hamas sympathizer.
 
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BrettM said:
I presume you are being sarcastic.

She said, "this all happened because of those Hamas dogs”.

Not IDF dogs, not Israeli dogs, but Hamas. She blames Hamas for the death of her son. The person who tells her to shut up is presumably a Hamas sympathizer.
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Yes. Sorry, I should have typed "Dirty Zionist lies!!!".
 
Leumas said:
Yup... to be expected... the moment you run out of excuses to defend the genocide and atrocities... start with the invectives... thanks... I am very happy now.
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:rolleyes:

Nah. It's just that proposing arbitrarily violating the airspace/territory of, at the least, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar to utterly destroy a high class hotel where a bunch of other rich, powerful, and well-connected people are likely to be staying would be foolish to an extreme, even before potential success comes into play. One doesn't need an advanced understanding of international politics to begin to understand how insane such is, much as things fairly certainly just keep getting worse as more is examined. Negotiations with Qatar for extradition are generally the way to go, rather than the utterly foolish and counterproductive method that you're demanding be taken as a seemingly very insincere condition for your acceptance that Israel actually doesn't like Hamas.
 
Aridas said:
:rolleyes:

Nah. It's just that proposing arbitrarily violating the airspace/territory of, at the least, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar to utterly destroy a high class hotel where a bunch of other rich, powerful, and well-connected people are likely to be staying would be foolish to an extreme, even before potential success comes into play. One doesn't need an advanced understanding of international politics to begin to understand how insane such is, much as things fairly certainly just keep getting worse as more is examined. Negotiations with Qatar for extradition are generally the way to go, rather than the utterly foolish and counterproductive method that you're demanding be taken as a seemingly very insincere condition for your acceptance that Israel actually doesn't like Hamas.
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And why not extend the Palestinians the same consideration... instead of doing genocide and ethnic cleansing and Sippenhaft on them to implement the Final Solution for the Settler Colonialism project?:confused:
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
No Israel is acting extremely rational -
because the goal is not to find a peaceful solution, but to keep a permanent conflict going that will guarantee permanent money, arms and protection from the US.
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These events are about the only time US aid to Israel ever gets seriously questioned. I think rationally, even if loss of life is not reason enough, they would rather have fewer attacks on them and thus fewer questions about their responses.
 
gnome said:
These events are about the only time US aid to Israel ever gets seriously questioned. I think rationally, even if loss of life is not reason enough, they would rather have fewer attacks on them and thus fewer questions about their responses.
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By some... and then seriously increased anyway despite the questioning while the questioners get called anti-Semites... with the added other benefits of new regulations curtailing freedoms of speech and other such things.

Not to mention the windfall to Netanyahu with attention diverted away from his corruptions and failures.
 
Well, now you're replacing Israel's interests with Netanyahu's personal interests, and there's obviously cause for divergence there.
 
Leumas said:
And why not extend the Palestinians the same consideration...
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I truly doubt that you are as utterly ignorant about international politics as would be required to make this even remotely sincere.

Leumas said:
instead of doing genocide and ethnic cleansing and Sippenhaft on them to implement the Final Solution for the Settler Colonialism project?:confused:
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You like that rant. Too bad that it sure looks like it rests on highly dubious assumptions on your part, at best, rather than relying on reality. Given that it follows something that can only arise from extreme ignorance or trolling, you're making a strong case that it's not even worth engaging directly with.
 
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Aridas said:
I truly doubt that you are as utterly ignorant about international politics as would be required to make this even remotely sincere.

You like that rant. Too bad that it sure looks like it rests on highly dubious assumptions on your part, at best, rather than relying on reality. Given that it follows something that can only arise from extreme ignorance or trolling, you're making a strong case that it's not even worth engaging directly with.
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Thankyou for your emotive invectives... the emotions alone give me a warm feeling of satisfaction that you have no rational response to the FACTS that you cannot refute and dislike being revealed.

Thanks!!!:thumbsup:
 
BrettM said:
I presume you are being sarcastic.

She said, "this all happened because of those Hamas dogs”.

Not IDF dogs, not Israeli dogs, but Hamas. She blames Hamas for the death of her son. The person who tells her to shut up is presumably a Hamas sympathizer.
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Have you considered that the person who stopped her talking about Hamas in an area where Hamas operates might have been trying to protect her?
 
TofuFighter said:
Have you considered that the person who stopped her talking about Hamas in an area where Hamas operates might have been trying to protect her?
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Good point. I never thought of that. There are lots of things about this Gaza - Israel conflict that I will never undestand. I am reminded of a Shakesperian quote,

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
 
Leumas said:
Thankyou for your emotive invectives... the emotions alone give me a warm feeling of satisfaction that you have no rational response to the FACTS that you cannot refute and dislike being revealed.

Thanks!!!:thumbsup:
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*shrug*

You are also still giving me no reason at all to believe that you're not trolling, given your choice of arguments and how poorly reflective of or based in reality they are.

Playing a complete fool just isn't impressive. Come on, you could at least try to make it mildly interesting if you're just going to spout BS? Otherwise, moving on.
 
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TofuFighter said:
Have you considered that the person who stopped her talking about Hamas in an area where Hamas operates might have been trying to protect her?
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BrettM said:
Good point. I never thought of that. There are lots of things about this Gaza - Israel conflict that I will never undestand. I am reminded of a Shakesperian quote,

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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That actually may well be more likely, for that matter. Hamas is, err, well known for cracking down on dissenting Palestinians, at last check. Palestinians are people, too, of course, with all that entails, including not really wanting that cracking down to happen.
 
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Aridas said:
*shrug*

You are also still giving me no reason at all to believe that you're not trolling, given your choice of arguments and how poorly reflective of or based in reality they are.

Playing a complete fool just isn't impressive. Come on, you could at least try to make it mildly interesting if you're just going to spout BS? Otherwise, moving on.
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All this emotive invectives are indicative of how much your words are self-projection and inability to accept the HARD FACTS of reality.

So thanks for letting me know....:thumbsup:
 
Both sides have people who want to kill the other, who are angry that there are people who want to kill them. Sadly, those are the people in charge.

Stuck in between are the people who I support, who just want to get on with their lives, will cooperate and live in peace.
 
Nessie said:
Both sides have people who want to kill the other, who are angry that there are people who want to kill them. Sadly, those are the people in charge.

Stuck in between are the people who I support, who just want to get on with their lives, will cooperate and live in peace.
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Some evidently do not want to... as shown in this video.

 
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Leumas, you keep posting extremely long videos (some over an hour in duration) and let me just make mention that I'm kinda busy (like probably most of us here), and if you could summarize these for us, it would allow proper discussions to progress. TIA.
 
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