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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Hercules56 said:
I forgot to mention Israel continues to demolish "illegal" Arab construction while lending a blind eye to or even giving retroactive approval to illegal Jewish construction.
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An unfortunate consequence of the Israeli policy of killing suspected terrorists rather than arresting them is that an Israeli civilian who shot a terrorist was then killed by the IDF despite kneeling down with his hands in the air shouting that he was Jewish. His father wants the soldier tried. It is clear that the government doesn't want this otherwise the 'unofficial' policy of murdering Palestinians will have to become official.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-776298
 
Leumas said:
In the concentration camp that the Israeli Zionist Jihadist Settler Colonialists have confined them into... they had little energy that Israel trickled to them... whether electrical or chemical or nutritional.
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*sigh*
The reason Gaza is under blockade is precisely because of Hamas. It is a documented fact that Hamas diverted much of the aid coming in to Gaza, to use for military purposes. This includes digging up water pipes to make rockets, using cement to build tunnels rather than houses, and producing antisemitic textbooks for use in schools, as a means of radicalising and brainwashing the next generation of murderous fanatics.
Had Hamas not done this, there is every chance that there would be no blockade.
Note too, that Egypt is also blockading their border at Rafah, after Hamas dug tunnels under it and launched jihadist attacks in Egypt, on Egyptians. Again, this is entirely Hamas' fault, the effect being only to add to the suffering of the Palestinian people.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Nope. PartSkeptic- as can be seen from the quote- is giving a literal description of a Hamas rocket. An analogy is a comparison with something else, used to clarify: there is no comparison here, just a factual description.
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The analogy was yours... not his... read your reply to which I replied... I replied to YOUR analogy in YOUR reply.


Cosmic Yak said:
Your efforts to excuse and exculpate yourself from your earlier egregious erroneousness, by arrantly attempting, again, to arrogantly assert your aforementioned appaling aberration, are abjectly asinine.
In other words, doubling down on a mistake doesn't make you right, and you're not the only one with an extensive vocabulary at his command. :D
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Yup... the above applies to you... you are self-projecting.
 
The Zionist Nationalist Socialist program is a hoodwinking ruse to bamboozle humanity

Cosmic Yak said:
*sigh*
The reason Gaza is under blockade is precisely because .....
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Long before there was a ruse called Hamas... in fact 127 years ago... Ashkenazi Zionists used the ruse of Zionism to con people into allowing them to establish an Ashkenazi Nationalist Socialist Settler Colonialist project in Palestine... and subsequently they started The Ethnic Cleansing Of Palestine which has been ongoing for the last 75 years before any Hamas terrorists were used by the war criminal Netanyahu and other Zionist Jihadists as yet another ruse to hoodwink and bamboozle humanity just as did the Ashkenazi Zionists of the 19th century and the British Christian Zionists in the 17th century.


[imgw=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_51282656cb63915ac0.png[/imgw]​
 
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lionking said:
Hamas has launched tens of thousands of rockets at Israel. What is your tolerance level?
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And Israel secretly funded HAMAS knowing they do that. So what is your tolerance level? Are you cool with knowingly funding terrorists and then when they commit terrorist attacks, using that as an excuse to kill tens of thousands of innocents?
 
The_Animus said:
And Israel secretly funded HAMAS knowing they do that. So what is your tolerance level? Are you cool with knowingly funding terrorists and then when they commit terrorist attacks, using that as an excuse to kill tens of thousands of innocents?
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This is a dishonest post. Israel, along with many other countries, did provide humanitarian aid to Gaza years ago in the hope it would be used for infrastructure. That money was stolen by Hamas.
 
lionking said:
So you have nothing. Thanks for the admission.
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Yes of course I have nothing of the lies and perfidious Zionist propaganda that you expected me to regurgitate...

Instead I have FACTS based in REALITY... which is not in accord with the Zionist propaganda "alternative facts" you wished I would repeat.
 
lionking said:
This is a dishonest post. Israel, along with many other countries, did provide humanitarian aid to Gaza years ago in the hope it would be used for infrastructure. That money was stolen by Hamas.
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There are accusations, by many Israelis, that Netanyahu specifically helped Hamas, and apparently did so explicitly with the aim of dividing the Palestinians given that Hamas was losing power and influence.

It is Netanyahu who claims it was just humanitarian assistance.

Link

I don't really know what to believe, but I won't take his word for it.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
While I do not believe that Gazan civilians deserve the kind of bombing Israel is meting out, I do believe that they (the civilians) could have done more to rid themselves of a regime that was doing them no favours at all. Hamas' rule has been nothing but a disaster for the people of Gaza: had they spent a fraction of the time and energy they use for hating Israel and the Jews, in overthrowing Hamas, they would not be in the mess they are in now.
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It seems we agree pretty much.

While I do believe that they (the civilians) could have done more to rid themselves of a regime that was doing them no favours at all, I do not believe that Gazan civilians deserve the kind of bombing Israel is meting out
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It's difficult to know how regular Gazans are supposed to overthrow Hamas. We saw that Fatah did try, and got wiped out in 2007.

Do we assume that everyone in Gaza is fine with Hamas? Or is it more likely that Hamas have a stranglehold on the population and that trying to rise up against them is very dangerous and likely to result in death for you and your family?


Cosmic Yak said:
US public support for the invasion of Iraq was sky high at the time. I don't think it unreasonable to hold America as a whole responsible for that invasion.
That doesn't mean that American civilians deserve to be attacked, but the point of a democracy is it's supposed to by rule by the people. The people are, therefore, responsible (to a degree) for what those rulers do. As I noted above, the people of Hamas could have done more- indeed, done anything at all- to rid themselves of rule by Hamas. They did not, and therefore, by the same measure, they do have to accept at least some responsibility for Hamas' actions.
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If it is not "unreasonable to hold America as a whole responsible for that invasion" then what follows from that? Does that mean they deserve to be attacked? Oh, no, they don't as you say "That doesn't mean that American civilians deserve to be attacked". So what does it mean? Oh..."but the point of a democracy is it's supposed to by rule by the people." Oooookay... so that does that mean they deserve to...wait... Instead of all this back and forth, why not just state simply what you think. You seem to be loading up your post with so much equivocation that I don't even know what you are claiming.


Cosmic Yak said:
Not sure who this applies to, but it isn't me. I have been open in my condemnation of the extent and nature of Israel's response, even though I do not support Hamas in any way.
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I was responding to lionking. I literally quoted what he was saying in my post, so I am not sure why you assumed I was talking to you. :confused:

But anyway, as I say, if we are agreed, then great. :thumbsup:
 
lionking said:
This is a dishonest post. Israel, along with many other countries, did provide humanitarian aid to Gaza years ago in the hope it would be used for infrastructure. That money was stolen by Hamas.
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They were allowing suitcases of cash in the back of a car to be delivered to Hamas. After they were caught Netanyahu claimed it was humanitarian aid. I'm no expert but I don't think humanitarian aid is done via suitcases of cash in secret.
 
The_Animus said:
They were allowing suitcases of cash in the back of a car to be delivered to Hamas. After they were caught Netanyahu claimed it was humanitarian aid. I'm no expert but I don't think humanitarian aid is done via suitcases of cash in secret.
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Yeah, this is from the Jerusalem Post:

The money was given to Hamas by Qatar. The chairman of the Qatari Committee for the Reconstruction of the Gaza Strip, Mohammed al-Emadi, entered Gaza with the cash. The funds could only have entered Gaza with Israel’s approval.

The funds are designated to pay civil servant salaries. The PA has halted those payments as part of strict economic sanctions, which it has imposed on the Gaza Strip in its bid to wrest control of Gaza from Hamas. The terror group has forcibly ruled Gaza since it ousted Fatah in a bloody coup in 2007.
Hamas demanded funds to pay civil servant salaries as one of the conditions that would need to be met in order to halt violent riots along the border and the launching of incendiary devices into Gaza.

Netanyahu said that he had no intention of using Israeli funds to bribe Hamas. But the UN and Egypt, which have worked intensely to restore calm, have explored the option of Qatari funds to pay civil servant salaries in order to quell domestic unrest.

Opposition leader MK Tzipi Livni (Zionist Union) noted that this was an apt end to a day that began with news of indictments against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s associates in a bribery case and ended with suitcases of cash for a terror group who has sworn to destroy Israel.

The suitcases could only have gone in with Netanyahu’s approval, she said. The prime minister “has sold out [our] security to his associates and has purchased temporary quiet from Hamas,” she added “Netanyahu has to go.”
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So not even a claim of humanitarian aid, but to pay off "civil servants", and a prediction that this will blow up in Netanyahu's face. In fact, the PA was even applying sanctions to Hamas. For those who say the Palestinians are not doing enough to rise up against Hamas, and then we read the ******* PM of Israel was allowing suitcases of cash to go to Hamas.

Jesus F Christ!
 
The British government, very sensibly, did not give cash to the IRA.
 
Leumas said:
The analogy was yours... not his... read your reply to which I replied... I replied to YOUR analogy in YOUR reply.
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Wow. You are SO bad at this.
I made no analogy either. I asked PartSkeptic how he would feel if someone threw a nail-studded grenade into his house. This was not an analogy: it was a direct question, about an actual grenade, not an analogous grenade.
A hypothetical question like that, is not an analogy.
Now, perhaps, as you're so cocksure that I made an analogy, you could explain what that analogy was.


Leumas said:
Yup... the above applies to you... you are self-projecting.
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Predictably puerile. :rolleyes:
 
angrysoba said:
It's difficult to know how regular Gazans are supposed to overthrow Hamas. We saw that Fatah did try, and got wiped out in 2007.

Do we assume that everyone in Gaza is fine with Hamas? Or is it more likely that Hamas have a stranglehold on the population and that trying to rise up against them is very dangerous and likely to result in death for you and your family?
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Danger is an unfortunate ever-present feature of life in Gaza. It could be lessened by the removal of Hamas, so it would be in the interests of the people of Gaza to do so.
Does this have to be done by means of a violent revolution? Not necessarily. Pressure could be applied by other means.
For a start, they could simply show the IDF where Hamas is hiding, and let the Israelis deal with them. Win-win.
Alternatively, they could use diplomatic means. Reach out to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar. Get them to put pressure on Hamas, and also on Iran, which is funding them.


angrysoba said:
If it is not "unreasonable to hold America as a whole responsible for that invasion" then what follows from that? Does that mean they deserve to be attacked? Oh, no, they don't as you say "That doesn't mean that American civilians deserve to be attacked". So what does it mean? Oh..."but the point of a democracy is it's supposed to by rule by the people." Oooookay... so that does that mean they deserve to...wait... Instead of all this back and forth, why not just state simply what you think. You seem to be loading up your post with so much equivocation that I don't even know what you are claiming.
Click to expand...

Sorry: I thought I had stated what I think in simple terms.
There are other choices between 'it's totes not their fault they have a terrorist government' (and by this, I mean both Gaza and the States), and 'They deserve to be bombed for what their government did'.
The point is, a population cannot simply wash its hands of the actions of the government it elected. Consequences of that can range from media criticism to sanctions, but those consequences are justified. Killing people is not.

angrysoba said:
I was responding to lionking. I literally quoted what he was saying in my post, so I am not sure why you assumed I was talking to you. :confused:
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There is a tendency in this thread, to paint members in very broad, and polarised, strokes. Not every critic of Hamas gives their unqualified support to Israel. I just wanted to emphasise that.

angrysoba said:
But anyway, as I say, if we are agreed, then great. :thumbsup:
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Sounds like we are. All good. :):thumbsup:
 
angrysoba said:
So not even a claim of humanitarian aid, but to pay off "civil servants", and a prediction that this will blow up in Netanyahu's face. In fact, the PA was even applying sanctions to Hamas. For those who say the Palestinians are not doing enough to rise up against Hamas, and then we read the ******* PM of Israel was allowing suitcases of cash to go to Hamas.

Jesus F Christ!
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Let me refer you back to my comment about polarised depictions of posters' views.
My dislike of Hamas does not make me a supporter of Netanyahu.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Danger is an unfortunate ever-present feature of life in Gaza. It could be lessened by the removal of Hamas, so it would be in the interests of the people of Gaza to do so.
Does this have to be done by means of a violent revolution? Not necessarily. Pressure could be applied by other means.
For a start, they could simply show the IDF where Hamas is hiding, and let the Israelis deal with them. Win-win.
Alternatively, they could use diplomatic means. Reach out to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar. Get them to put pressure on Hamas, and also on Iran, which is funding them.




Sorry: I thought I had stated what I think in simple terms.
There are other choices between 'it's totes not their fault they have a terrorist government' (and by this, I mean both Gaza and the States), and 'They deserve to be bombed for what their government did'.
The point is, a population cannot simply wash its hands of the actions of the government it elected. Consequences of that can range from media criticism to sanctions, but those consequences are justified. Killing people is not.



There is a tendency in this thread, to paint members in very broad, and polarised, strokes. Not every critic of Hamas gives their unqualified support to Israel. I just wanted to emphasise that.



Sounds like we are. All good. :):thumbsup:
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Cosmic Yak said:
Let me refer you back to my comment about polarised depictions of posters' views.
My dislike of Hamas does not make me a supporter of Netanyahu.
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I expect we agree all round here.
 
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-776407
"The Second Sundays Art and Music Festival has traditionally been a unifying event, emphasizing messages of unity, love, and light."
(in other words, a hippy-dippy American version of the NOVA Art & Music Festival)

But what did the organizers do? Instead of some sort of quiet commemoration for 10-7 atrocities against peaceable fellow-travelers & Festival-goers in Israel, (or, at best, a moment of silence for all the innocents in this conflict) they decided to tell US Jews that they weren't welcome at this event, at all, unless there was a banner erected on stage demandng for Israel to stop fighting against those who sent the perpetrators of 10-7.

This whole story in Virginia is upsetting, on various levels.
The exclusion of the Jewish community from this festival (which prides itself on inclusivity) has raised questions about the festival's commitment to moral values.

To be clear, the menorah lighting, which was to be led by a local community rabbi, had nothing to do with Israel or the conflict.
 
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webfusion said:
To be clear, the menorah lighting, which was to be led by a local community rabbi, had nothing to do with Israel or the conflict.
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Oof, yeah, that's pretty ******. They almost got points for cancelling ALL religious events at the festival, but then dunked themselves by offering to put it back under a 'don't worry, we're the nice ones' banner.
 
webfusion said:
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-776407
"The Second Sundays Art and Music Festival has traditionally been a unifying event, emphasizing messages of unity, love, and light."
(in other words, a hippy-dippy American version of the NOVA Art & Music Festival)

But what did the organizers do? Instead of some sort of quiet commemoration for 10-7 atrocities against peaceable fellow-travelers & Festival-goers in Israel, (or, at best, a moment of silence for all the innocents in this conflict) they decided to tell US Jews that they weren't welcome at this event, at all, unless there was a banner erected on stage demandng for Israel to stop fighting against those who sent the perpetrators of 10-7.

This whole story in Virginia is upsetting, on various levels.
The exclusion of the Jewish community from this festival (which prides itself on inclusivity) has raised questions about the festival's commitment to moral values.

To be clear, the menorah lighting, which was to be led by a local community rabbi, had nothing to do with Israel or the conflict.
Click to expand...

Israel needs to understand that when they misbehave it affects Jews everywhere. We Jews in America are often the ultimate victims of Israel's crimes.

Meanwhile, illegal ZioniSSt settlers are taking advantage of the Gaza Massacre to build more illegal outposts and roads. Of course Israel will do literally nothing about it because they dont care when Jews do illegal construction, only when Arabs do it.

https://peacenow.org.il/en/new-roads-and-outposts-flourish-in-the-west-bank-amid-gaza-war
 
Hercules56 said:
Israel needs to understand that when they misbehave it affects Jews everywhere. We Jews in America are often the ultimate victims of Israel's crimes.
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No. Jews in America are victims of antisemitism, just as Jews all over the world are. Don't make excuses for that antisemitism. That's what it is, that's all it is, and it's Stockholm syndrome to expect Israel's behavior can ever make it go away. Israel is the pretense, not the reason.
 
Hercules56 said:
Israel needs to understand that when they misbehave it affects Jews everywhere. We Jews in America are often the ultimate victims of Israel's crimes.
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Should we also hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of Al Qaeda, Hamas, ISIS and the Taliban? I suggest we should not.
Maybe you don't support the idea of collective punishment, but your post here certainly sounds like you do. Would you care to clarify this?

Hercules56 said:
Meanwhile, illegal ZioniSSt settlers are taking advantage of the Gaza Massacre to build more illegal outposts and roads. Of course Israel will do literally nothing about it because they dont care when Jews do illegal construction, only when Arabs do it.

https://peacenow.org.il/en/new-roads-and-outposts-flourish-in-the-west-bank-amid-gaza-war
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Israel will do literally nothing? Where are you getting this from? For sure, West Bank settlements are expanding, and that's not a good thing, but there really is no need to exaggerate.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/illeg...and-demolished-a-day-after-settlers-moved-in/
https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-demolishes-illegal-settler-buildings-west-bank
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/21/israel-west-bank-settlements-evacuation

No, the Israeli government is not doing nearly enough to deal with these settlements. Yes, they could do more. But they are not doing nothing.
 
PartSkeptic said:
You are buying into mantras and propaganda rather than using logical thought.
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Logical thought? Such as consulting tarot cards?

I am anti-Zionist but not antisemitic. No doubt I will be "labelled" as such for speaking truth to power.
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I don't label you as anti-semitic for your opinions on Zionism, Mr. Courageous Truth Teller. The reason I know you're anti-semitic is because of demented comments such as...
PartSkeptic said:
The Holocaust should have been a wake-up call to the Jewish people to determine what role they might have had in the way they were treated.
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Nessie said:
University Presidents caveat calls for the genocide of Jews as not necessarily hate speech, as it depends on context;

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1732176365288300772

We do not get any examples of what context it would be not be hate speech to call for the genocide of Jews.
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I've been saying for years that universities were infested with antisemitism. A lot of people didn't previously notice, hopefully the public will start waking up to that fact.
 
webfusion said:
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-776407
"The Second Sundays Art and Music Festival has traditionally been a unifying event, emphasizing messages of unity, love, and light."
(in other words, a hippy-dippy American version of the NOVA Art & Music Festival)

But what did the organizers do? Instead of some sort of quiet commemoration for 10-7 atrocities against peaceable fellow-travelers & Festival-goers in Israel, (or, at best, a moment of silence for all the innocents in this conflict) they decided to tell US Jews that they weren't welcome at this event, at all, unless there was a banner erected on stage demandng for Israel to stop fighting against those who sent the perpetrators of 10-7.

This whole story in Virginia is upsetting, on various levels.
The exclusion of the Jewish community from this festival (which prides itself on inclusivity) has raised questions about the festival's commitment to moral values.

To be clear, the menorah lighting, which was to be led by a local community rabbi, had nothing to do with Israel or the conflict.
Click to expand...

Local menorah lighting ceremony in my town is being advertised as a "pro-israel" event.
 
Hercules56 said:
Local menorah lighting ceremony in my town is being advertised as a "pro-israel" event.
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It may well be that your local Jewish leaders have decided to make that element the focus of this event.
That is a choice they've made, and perhaps it will result in some backlash against them from certain Jews who are ashamed about being 'linked' to Israel. If you are feeling like a journalist, perhaps go to the ceremony, and see if you can get some reactions from attendees, and report back to us.

In Virginia, the original focus of that event was "inclusivity" and "unity, Love and light" and the menorah candle-lighting was just part of the overall mood of expression. The organizers then told the Jews they wouldn't be welcome because it would 'trigger' people who hate Israel. It was their decision to 'link' the two, and then they doubled-down by saying a banner had to be placed calling for a 'ceasefire' (a position not shared widely by American Jewry).
(This, honestly, is similar to the DC PrideMarch organizers who rejected rainbow-flags with the Star of David displayed.)
 
webfusion said:
It may well be that your local Jewish leaders have decided to make that element the focus of this event.
That is a choice they've made, and perhaps it will result in some backlash against them from certain Jews who are ashamed about being 'linked' to Israel. If you are feeling like a journalist, perhaps go to the ceremony, and see if you can get some reactions from attendees, and report back to us..
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Not simply linked to Israel, but linked to Israel's current policy of genocide in Gaza and allowing illegal Zionist settlers to expand their settlements and roads illegally in the West Bank, and kill/harass Palestinians.

Yes, this is not exactly the most politically correct and fortunate time to wave the Israeli flag anywhere but right-wing Conservative communities, and even there might be sketchy as well.
 
Ziggurat said:
I've been saying for years that universities were infested with antisemitism. A lot of people didn't previously notice, hopefully the public will start waking up to that fact.
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Being furious with Israel's current policies in Gaza, and America's blind funding and support of it, is not anti-Semitism.
 
Hercules56 said:
Not simply linked to Israel, but linked to Israel's current policy of genocide in Gaza and allowing illegal Zionist settlers to expand their settlements and roads illegally in the West Bank, and kill/harass Palestinians.

Yes, this is not exactly the most politically correct and fortunate time to wave the Israeli flag anywhere but right-wing Conservative communities, and even there might be sketchy as well.
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https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-776956
"we're afraid of putting up a menorah"

This is a subject worthy of its own thread, perhaps.

(Note: Jews were not even allowed to attend Ivy League Universities even PRIOR to the establishment of Israel) https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...icting-jews-created-modern-college-admissions
 
Hercules56 said:
I find such an attitude to be silly. But to each their own.
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Yet, you just posted a comment saying that "this is not exactly the most politically correct and fortunate time to wave the Israeli flag anywhere but right-wing Conservative communities, and even there might be sketchy as well." -- what makes a menorah display any less 'sketchy' ?

What we have are a bunch of 'useful idiots' marching in protests and they don't even know what the chanting is about!
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-776987
 
webfusion said:
Yet, you just posted a comment saying that "this is not exactly the most politically correct and fortunate time to wave the Israeli flag anywhere but right-wing Conservative communities, and even there might be sketchy as well." -- what makes a menorah display any less 'sketchy' ?

What we have are a bunch of 'useful idiots' marching in protests and they don't even know what the chanting is about!
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-776987
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When a nation makes really bad choices, showing pride in that nation may not go over well. I'll bet German-pride parades from 1933-1938 weren't very popular, and were seen as being pro-Nazi. Even if you were just showing your German pride. Same with Russian-pride parades from 1917-1945. Its a sad reality but it is reality.
 
Hercules56 said:
If you're afraid your menorah will draw unwanted attention, buy a gun.
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You added this part to your previous post, and it's abhorrent.

In the United States of America, I find it objectionable to hear you suggesting that the public authorities will do nothing to protect and serve one part of the community, and that Jews are 'on their own' when facing 'unwanted attention' (whatever that means).

In other words, I need a gun (which I have purchased, it was on sale, great buy!) if I intend to display my Jewishness publicly. A mezzuzah? Take it down, or buy a gun. A Yarmulkah? Take it off, or buy a gun.
Tzitizt? (fringes) Tuck them in, or buy a gun. Israeli flag? (source of identity for many Jews) Don't dare to show it, or buy a gun.

Perhaps you should reconsider your statement?
 
webfusion said:
You added this part to your previous post, and it's abhorrent.

In the United States of America, I find it objectionable to hear you suggesting that the public authorities will do nothing to protect and serve one part of the community, and that Jews are 'on their own' when facing 'unwanted attention' (whatever that means)....
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Don't put words in my mouth, I said no such thing.

Self-defense and self-reliance is very American and very much the norm. Nothing special or unusual about it. Its like apple pie.
 
Hercules56 said:
When a nation makes really bad choices, showing pride in that nation may not go over well. I'll bet German-pride parades from 1933-1938 weren't very popular, and were seen as being pro-Nazi. Even if you were just showing your German pride. Same with Russian-pride parades from 1917-1945. Its a sad reality but it is reality.
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The Nation of Israel has not made a really bad choice by embarking on this war.

In fact, the opposite is widely considered to be the case.
 
webfusion said:
The Nation of Israel has not made a really bad choice by embarking on this war.

In fact, the opposite is considered to be the case.
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Many, many Jews believe that Israel's racist and unjust policies in the West Bank are very bad choices that make displays of "Israel pride" to be highly distasteful and tone deaf.

Showing pride in Israeli policies while genocide is being committed in Gaza?

Wow, just wow. Might as well wave the Confederate flag on MLK's birthday.
 
Hercules56 said:
Don't put words in my mouth, I said no such thing.

Self-defense and self-reliance is very American and very much the norm. Nothing special or unusual about it. Its like apple pie.
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You suggested exactly that thing.
I noted that you went back and edited your posting to include the suggestion that Jews should arm themselves for 'self defense' and 'self-reliance' (your words) if they are afraid to display a menorah due to 'unwanted attention' (whatever that means).

That whole line of thought is abhorrent. Face it.
 
webfusion said:
You suggested exactly that thing.
I noted that you went back and edited your posting to include the suggestion that Jews should arm themselves for 'self defense' and 'self-reliance' (your words) if they are afraid to display a menorah due to 'unwanted attention' (whatever that means).

That whole line of thought is abhorrent. Face it.
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No, its not.

Defending yourself is as American as apple pie.

If you feel under threat, having a gun will make you feel more secure.

Dont have to wait 5 minutes for the cops to show up, you can shoot the bad guys right away if they try to harm you. Then go back to bed. :)
 
Hercules56 said:
Many, many Jews believe that Israel's racist and unjust policies in the West Bank are very bad choices that make displays of "Israel pride" to be highly distasteful and tone deaf.

Showing pride in Israeli policies while genocide is being committed in Gaza?

Wow, just wow. Might as well wave the Confederate flag on MLK's birthday.
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There is no genocide being committed in Gaza. It's just standard combat. Which Israel is winning, clearly.

I'm not calling 9-1-1 when my house is being firebombed.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

As for your claim that Many Many Jews believe ....( ...insert whatever latest objection that people have towards Israel these days) -- there was a survey conducted over the summer in the USA.
https://jewishcurrents.org/recent-polls-of-us-jews-reflect-polarized-community

Statistics about how many Jews identify as 'Zionists' are often thrown around in public discourse, but few reliable studies have been done on the actual meaning behind the question. And rather than ask about specific policies, polls of American Jews generally ask respondents about their levels of “emotional attachment” to Israel
 
webfusion said:
There is no genocide being committed in Gaza. It's just standard combat....
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War crimes are not "standard combat". Israel's actions will create 1,000 new militants for every one that is killed.

Israel had the moral high ground on October 7th. They lost it with the current foolish genocide in Gaza.

Great job.

:(
 
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