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Old 30th August 2007, 06:28 AM   #35
wogoga
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 334
Yiab wrote:

>> What about the fact that gene expression will have extremely different large-scale results depending on the environment the genes are situated in? <<

If a computer program can perform "extremely different" tasks depending on input parameters, then from a purely logical point of view we must conclude: either the program contains the information corresponding to all tasks which can be switched on by parameters, or the parameters themselves constitue the information needed for the tasks. In the latter case we simply have additional information which is added to the programm in order to perform the corresponding task.

>> The fact that a fertilized human egg grows into a human shape within the womb of a human mother (or an environment almost identical to it) is a necessary part of the process, as is the nutrition transferred to the growing fetus through the umbilical cord. <<

Do you suggest that the growing egg somehow creates from the womb-environment additional information concerning the construction plan of the human being? Even if this were possible, there remains the problem addressed once by Richard Harter as an objection to a similar argument of PZ Myers:

"The problem is that development is not heritable. Consider a parent organism creating an egg. The parent not only passes on a genotype, it also passes on an environment in which the child organism will develop. Fine, this apparently is information that is not in the child's genotype. Consider, however, what happens when the child in turn creates an egg. It must supply the same developmental environment to its offspring. Now where does that information come from?" See: groups.google.com/group/sci.skeptic/msg/9b3b2aeb97dfba48

BTW, do you know that from a logical viewpoint reductionism implies, that a just hatched chick is less ordered (complex) than the just fertilized egg, because only processes which increase entropy are possible? (The open/closed-system confusion is pointless in this context.)

Panpsychism takes the fact seriously that enzymes do not conform to the laws of thermodynamics and Brownian motion, and therefore are able to increase order by working as purposefully as termites when constructing termite hills.

The main insight of panpsychists such as Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464) was the recognition, that plants and animals do not grow from dead matter, but are built up by invisible animated entities with the involvement of perception and intelligence. See: groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/9254fb9039c90b9c


A 'Critical Thinker' wrote:

>> Without reading anything ... I'm sure I can ... <<

Isn't it a strange result of evolution that dogmatic souls believing in the orthodox mainstream worldview tend to consider themselves to be critical and sceptic?

>> Too bad PZ Myers doesn't have time to participate in this forum. <<

Once I felt entitled to defended myself against attacks from PZ Myers: groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/fb6f1be140221b7d


Cheers, Wolfgang

Isn't it an irony of evolution, that many of the most advanced souls of terrestrian evolution deny their own existence?
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