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Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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Conflicting reports again
1. They followed her three and a half miles THEN cast her prints? Pine needles

or

2. They followed her up the creekbed aways, they saw 'scuffs' in the gravel, and there was no sand to show footsteps after where they saw it.


Argosy Article '68 [url said:
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/argosy68.htm[/url] ]"When she got around the corner and into the real heavy stuff [timber and underbrush] she did take off--running, I mean--because, when we lost her tracks on pine needles after tracking her for about three and a-half miles, we took plaster casts of her tracks. Now, down by the creek, in the sand, where we first spotted her, her stride was from forty to forty-two inches from the back of the heel on the left side to the back of the right heel ahead; but when she got really going, she left tracks that measured sixty-five inches from back heel to back heel.

'92 green interview [url said:
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/interviews/john.htm[/url] ]to see if we could see more tracks or [reflecting again] I don’t know, I thought maybe we could see this creature again. I don’t really know why I was thinking that. We never did see it again, but we saw scuffs in the gravel and in the creek bed there that indicated where it had possibly ran when it went out of sight. We measured 68 to 72 inches in the stride which was not even close to accurate because it was, as I have said, just scuffs in the gravel. Then we tracked on up the creek bed quite a ways. We saw one wet half of a footprint on a rock as it went up into the mountains and that was as far as we went with it.
Green: So there wasn’t sand to show footprints beyond where you saw it…?
Gimlin: No, it was gravel mostly, but there was sand and dirt where it went across the creek, but it never left a footprint in the sand or in the dirt or soil. It did leave a wet mark on the rock in the creek where is went across and went on into the hills from there.
 
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Not only that, Drewbot. They didn't have the plaster with them. They had to ride all the way back to the truck to get it. More mileage on those horses...

R: We didn't have plaster, 'cause we went, we had to go back to the, to the truck and get plaster and come up and cast them.

W: How long would that take you, to leave the scene, go back to the truck and come up again?

R: We were at that point about two, what, maybe two miles from that area then?

B: Not two miles, I'd say. By the road it was just about an even two miles, across the hill that way it was a little shorter but we went .

They had a pack horse with them, they were out looking for bigfoot tracks, but had no plaster on the pack horse...
 
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Oh the duped Gimlin theory is just too perfect. It ties up all loose ends. I'm going with it. Full right rudder. :D;)
 
William Parcher JREF Nov. 2005 said:
After the encounter and filming, an unstated amount of time passes before they begin to track her up the mountainside. At that point Patty is walking through wilderness up the mountain. P&G are on horseback following whatever signs they can use to follow her. They follow this sign for 3.5 miles before losing her trail. Just how quickly can you follow such a trail on horseback up a mountain? But also, once they lose her trail, they have to turn around and ride back through the wilds to return to Bluff Creek and the film site. Then they are still about 2 miles from their truck and the plaster. I believe Gimlin said that 2 mile horseback ride took about 40 minutes. But they have to make a round-trip. They have to get the plaster and then go back to the film site to do the casting and take more film footage.

Gimlin to Green: "In that area, that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o'clock."

... and the plaster pour scene shows what?
 
Yep. The Bluff Creek sandbar theater where Patty made her tracks is surrounded by peaks with tall trees everywhere. The sun is blocked by these long before the official sunset time of 5:30pm. No chance for sunlight in the face.

Where's my million bucks?
 
I was asked to produce who it was that claimed Bob Gimlin was ill and didn't attend the first showing of the PGF upon returning to Yakima.



The first speaker - Paul Vella - 40 Years of the Bigfoot Patterson/Gimlin Film

Paul is a forensic computing expert witness. He dealt with the physical evidence for the existence of Bigfoot in last year’s talk, which should be considered as Part One. This year is Part Two - the Film, as it is the 40th Anniversary of the film being taken. There has been no other film of this quality in the last 40 years, which is something that fuels the argument of sceptics and debunkers.

It must be remembered that there is a difference between 16mm film and video.

Paul considers Patterson to have been in the right place at the right time. To put this into perspective, there has been only one video of a drive-by shooting in a year where 500 happened in the same area.

Paul listed the various topics he would be discussing in his talk, including the Build-Up, the Players, Timeline of Events, Film itself, Film Site, Dynamics and Analysis, together with the Debunkers and Debunking.

Lots of footprints have been cast over the years in the area in which the film was made. 1958 was the year the term ‘Bigfoot’ was coined. In 1958, in the area of Louse Camp, about a mile from Bluff Creek, disturbances were reported where huge oil drums were found thrown over the gully. The humans working in the area used machinery to move these drums around. Machinery that could not be moved by humans had been thrown around, indicating tremendous strength.

The first casts were taken in concrete.

This was not the first time Bigfoot had been discussed in papers, however. There were news stories going back to the 1700s.

In 1964, Pat Graves found tracks in the same area.

In 1963, Al Hodgson took casts of prints in Bluff Creek.

There were over 30 sightings in the few years leading up to the film.

In considering the film, one must consider the characters of those involved. Roger Patterson died in 1972 of Hodgkin’s Disease. The condition was in remission at the time the film was made. Bob Gimlin is still alive, now 76 or 77 years of age. Gimlin is an old horse man, who now works in a garage and talks about his motorcycling exploits with ‘Bob’ Knieval. Neither man made much money from the film, and Gimlin himself only received a small amount from Patterson’s widow. Certainly, neither man made a fortune from it.

The film itself was made on Friday 20th October, 1967, at approximately 1.30pm. There is approximately 59.5 seconds of film, depending on what speed the film was taken. Gimlin and Patterson had been in the area for three weeks, shooting footage for a documentary. They rode around a corner of the creek, and the creature was seen some 30 foot away. The horses bucked and some bolted. Patterson himself stated he stepped off his pony. He got the camera out and started running after the creature. Gimlin pursued the creature on his horse for some yards, until it was lost as it went up the mountainside, where the horse could not follow. Gimlin wanted to continue following the creature, but Patterson did not. They returned to Louse Camp, about a mile away, which is probably where they had left their truck, and returned to take a plaster cast of the tracks. More footage was shot, showing these tracks and the casts being taken, but the film was lost in 1972 at the BBC. The footage followed the tracks up the mountainside.

Late that evening, they drove to Eureka, which is about a 30-minute drive, to mail the film. A call was made to Yakima Times Standard, and the story was published the next day, under the banner “Mrs. Bigfoot is Filmed”.

On Saturday 21st October, 1967, at around 5am, Patterson and Gimlin were awoken by rain. Gimlin wanted to go out and secure the prints, but Patterson thought the rain would soon subside. Gimlin was too concerned about the tracks, so he got up and tried to protect them with cardboard boxes. However, the boxes were too water sodden and soggy, and proved useless; so Gimlin tried to cover them with bark and leaves. Gimlin was ill, probably suffering from exhaustion, so they returned home.

On the Friday 20th October, Patterson had made a second telephone call requesting people in British Columbia to bring tracking dogs to track the creature. They refused.

On Sunday 22nd October, with Gimlin ill in bed, Patterson, Green, Dahinden and McClarin watched the film over and over again - damaging the film in the process through constant re-running. There is a problem with the timeline in developing the film. Most shops were closed on Saturdays, and none opened on Sundays. Furthermore, film developing was a lengthy and costly process. It may be that De Atley simply threw enough money around to get the film developed so quickly.

On Monday 23rd October, Lyle Laverty visited Bluff Creek and saw the tracks.

The film was shown at Vancouver, and anthropologists and zoologists dismissed it as a man in a monkey suit.

However, the footage of Bigfoot on the film is the very last thing on the film. There is footage of other things Patterson and Gimlin recorded. Unlike video, film cannot be rewound and re-recorded over. There is no sign of anything else on the film - no ‘rehearsals’ or practice shots.

The sandy area seen in the footage is now gravely. Extensive flooding has brought logs down, and trees have been destroyed. The sand has been washed away. Footprints can still be found in the area, but not as many as before.

Gimlin described the musculature of the creature as being that of a quarter horse.

Calf muscles can be seen to bulge as the creature walks. This would be impossible to fake, as gorilla suits do not have muscles.

It must be remembered - in the light of other claims about the footage - that the road to Bluff Creek is a very dusty road, about 25-30 miles long. It takes hours to drive through it. Paul reported that the brakes failed on one of their cars.

Details can be extrapolated from the video footage, measurements can be taken and models made. It shows the creature was about 102 foot from the camera. It also shows that this is the film of something that is leaving tracks. The first 20 seconds of the footage are very shaky, as by his own admission, Patterson was running. The camera was a very basic one, lacking even the rubber eye cup over the viewfinder. Computer mapping enables the production of an animation which allows the film to be viewed (as an animation) from any angle. Measuring the timing between the jerks of the camera, given that it is known Patterson was running, enables calculations as to the film speed.

The film footage shows that the creature is getting faster, with the gaps between each footstep getting larger. For height comparison, McClarin is 6’51/2. Bigfoot can be identified as being taller than this. Height calculations, working from the height of Patterson and the angle of filming, estimate the height of the creature as being between 6’4” and 7’2”. 6’6” is generally accepted from size comparisons to humans. Andre the Giant was 6’10” (although reported as being taller) and was in New Zealand at the time the film was taken. Pictures of him used in comparison against the footage give an idea as to size and build.

In calculating the size, the intermembral index must be considered. This is common to all humans - the length of the arms multiplied by 100 and divided by the size of the legs. Humans, Chimps and Gorillas all show a different intermembral index. The Bigfoot in the footage has a different intermembral index again. Its arms are too long to be human, and the ratio between the arms and legs does not match.

If it is a human in a suit with extra long arms - how does the fist appear to be clenching and unclenching? It may be an optical illusion, but it is said that there are other hand clenchings in the footage. There is a distinct bulge on the thigh as the creature steps out, which is consistent with a hernia injury that can happen in sports.

The camera used - a Kodak K-100 - has five film speed settings. Patterson said he usually filmed at 24 frames per second (fps), but when he stopped filming the footage, he noticed he had filmed at 18fps. However, the camera does not have a speed setting of 18fps. At 16fps, the creature is moving at 3.2mph; at 24fps, it is moving at 4.9mph, which is too fast for a human. However, some say the calculations are the other way around, and 16fps would be too fast for a human. Calculations using the shadows from the photographs of the footprints shows they were taken around 5.30pm, which fits in with Patterson and Gimlin’s time line.

John Landis says that John Chambers produced the Patterson film. Chambers categorically denies this. Chambers made the suits for Schlock and Planet of the Apes, which finished filming about a month before the Patterson/Gimlin footage was filmed. However, there are no actual full sized ape suits in Planet of the Apes. Planet of the Apes represented the height of suit technology available at that time, and it does not resemble the Patterson/Gimlin film. Chambers’ comment was actually that he “was good, but not that good”. Paul tried to telephone a ‘Phone In with Landis and discuss Bigfoot, but Landis would not talk about it.

Rick Baker did the special make-up effects for films such as Bigfoot and the Hendersons and he is convinced it is not a man in a suit.

Chris Packham of the BBC recreated the Patterson footage - however, it does not look the same. The arms are not long enough. Humans lock their knees when they walk; the Bigfoot in the film does not.

Karl Korff describes himself as the CEO of Total Research - Total Research, however, have never heard of him. He also describes himself as Captain Korff of Special Secret Service, but he does not appear to know where of. In World’s Greatest Hoaxes, Korff identified the man in the suit as Jerry Romney. Korff is convinced there is a Mormon conspiracy involved behind the making of the Patterson/Gimlin footage, in order to back-up their beliefs as to the origin of life. Korff claims to have 20 years experience in the field, but no other Bigfoot researcher has heard of him. He conned Patricia Patterson into releasing the film to him, by saying it would be included in a video called World’s Greatest. Actually, it was released as World’s Greatest Hoaxes. Korff says that primates do not have a hair line down their back - he claims this is the zip of the suit; however, it is obvious that primates do have a hair line down their backs.

At Uncon 2003, Korff said he ‘deposed’ witnesses with Greg Long, as described in The Making of Bigfoot by Greg Long. However, no-one in the book was ‘deposed’, and it appears Korff does not actually understand what the word means.

Korff bases his assertion on the film being faked on a contract existing between Patterson and Gimlin to make the film. The contract was actually a home-made, typewritten one. Korff says that the reason Bigfoot walks strangely is because the person in the suit - Bob Hieronymous - had a car accident; except Hieronymous did not have the car accident until 1971.

Patterson did not make money on the film, simply because whatever he did make was ploughed back into research.

Korff says Patterson knew he was dying, which is why he faked the footage.

Greg Long spends more of his book assassinating Patterson’s character. Despite Hieronymous’ claims to be the man in the suit, he is noticeably shorter than the creature in the footage. Hieronymous describes travelling five miles to Bluff Creek, but it is actually much further than that. He says Bluff Creek was dry, but it never runs dry. He says Patterson was not running with the camera, but shaking it. He also claims to have mailed the film from Eureka, but does not explain why he would do that when he was driving back the same day. The suit Hieronymous claims to have used does not look anything like the creature in the footage. He claims to have bought exactly the same suit from Philip Morris. However, Philip Morris describes a completely different suit. For instance, Hieronymous says Gimlin skinned a dead red horse for the fur of the suit; Morris says he used Dymol fabric. Morris also says he does not make suits with breasts.

Furthermore, why would you fake film footage showing a creature with breasts in puritanical 1967 America? It would be guaranteed not to be shown.

Paul Vella concludes by saying that if the creature is not Bigfoot, it is certainly a very good hoax. And whatever else it may be, it is certainly not Hieronymous in a suit.

Articles such as that in Fortean Times Issue 182 of January 2005 discrediting the Patterson/Gimlin footage do very little to help the matter.

Any further questions or comments can be sent to Paul at paul@vella.co.uk

Answers to questions from the floor

* The film stock used is believed to have been Kodachrome 2, which is awkward to get developed within the time frame as described by Gimlin and Patterson. They may have found a way around it. It remains an inconsistency. Film was usually sent to Kodak to be developed. The footage could not have been filmed in September; the foliage colour ties in exactly with the October timeline. So the film could not have been made earlier than the October date given. The question remains, however - how did the film get developed so quickly?
* Amongst Korff’s extreme claims are that he has secured a 500 book deal - the most heard of is six!
* Cliff Crook in Washington is a debunker of the film; he believes he has identified the bell type end of a zip. However, Paul suspects this is just mud. Paul considers the fur of the creature to show areas of mud and bald spots.
*No-one knows where the original master of the film is; five copies were made, of which two are known. It is not certain where the others are.
* The focal length of the camera was set to infinity, which is why the film is in focus.
 
Logic,


You may want to do a little fact checking before posting next time.

"Late that evening, they drove to Eureka, which is about a 30-minute drive, to mail the film."

That's some gooooood driving in Bobs old one ton considering it's about 105 miles from the bridge at Notice to Eureka, about 33 miles of that is +/-elevation from 2300' at Notice to about 4900' on Onion Mountain, then back down to around 550' at the Klamath River. Yup that's some gooood drivin for a sick guy. Oh, maybe Patterson was driving and Gimlin was sleeping in the back on their 200mph trip.

Vella is a bit screwed up on quite a few of the facts.



m :bike:
 
Logic,


You may want to do a little fact checking before posting next time.

"Late that evening, they drove to Eureka, which is about a 30-minute drive, to mail the film."

That's some gooooood driving in Bobs old one ton considering it's about 105 miles from the bridge at Notice to Eureka, about 33 miles of that is +/-elevation from 2300' at Notice to about 4900' on Onion Mountain, then back down to around 550' at the Klamath River. Yup that's some gooood drivin for a sick guy. Oh, maybe Patterson was driving and Gimlin was sleeping in the back on their 200mph trip.

Vella is a bit screwed up on quite a few of the facts.



m :bike:

I was asked to post where I had seen that Gimlin was ill. Perhaps he was suffering from exposure due to his 5AM sortie to try and protect the tracks? In any event as far as fact checking goes there is no such thing as fact checking when it comes to the PGF. Its all been said, re-said and debated. There are as many illinformed skeptics as there are believers Vella is no more out in left field than most everyone else.
 
I was asked to produce who it was that claimed Bob Gimlin was ill and didn't attend the first showing of the PGF upon returning to Yakima.

Here's the source.

In 1958, in the area of Louse Camp, about a mile from Bluff Creek, disturbances were reported where huge oil drums were found thrown over the gully. The humans working in the area used machinery to move these drums around. Machinery that could not be moved by humans had been thrown around, indicating tremendous strength.

But barrels can be tipped over with levers and rolled...

Gimlin is an old horse man, who now works in a garage and talks about his motorcycling exploits with ‘Bob’ Knieval.

Wait, Bob Gimlin hung out with Evel Knieval?

Neither man made much money from the film,

Because we all know that net-guns are so inexpensive...

See also

Gimlin was ill, probably suffering from exhaustion, so they returned home.

I'd have an easier time accepting this explanation if it can be shown that his illness was documented around that time. I find it odd how this illness explanation seems to have popped up after years of just "Bob Gimlin was tired."

There is a problem with the timeline in developing the film. Most shops were closed on Saturdays, and none opened on Sundays. Furthermore, film developing was a lengthy and costly process. It may be that De Atley simply threw enough money around to get the film developed so quickly.

Hasn't Roger Knights claimed to have found the guy who developed it?

The sandy area seen in the footage is now gravely. Extensive flooding has brought logs down, and trees have been destroyed. The sand has been washed away. Footprints can still be found in the area, but not as many as before.

And none that match up with Patty's...

This would be impossible to fake, as gorilla suits do not have muscles.

You have got to be kidding me. The guy who wrote this should also look into water bags.

Height calculations, working from the height of Patterson and the angle of filming, estimate the height of the creature as being between 6’4” and 7’2”. 6’6” is generally accepted from size comparisons to humans.

This makes that discussion on the BFF where they determined that Patty was around 6'1" even funnier. Why did I find it funny to begin with? Because the skeptics noticed it first.

The camera used - a Kodak K-100 - has five film speed settings. Patterson said he usually filmed at 24 frames per second (fps), but when he stopped filming the footage, he noticed he had filmed at 18fps. However, the camera does not have a speed setting of 18fps.

As I recall, people here discovered that the camera had a dial that let you set in between film settings.

Rick Baker did the special make-up effects for films such as Bigfoot and the Hendersons and he is convinced it is not a man in a suit.

Say WHAT?

Korff says that the reason Bigfoot walks strangely is because the person in the suit - Bob Hieronymous - had a car accident; except Hieronymous did not have the car accident until 1971.

I've also seen some claim that the accident is the reason that Bob H.'s walk isn't exactly like Patty's. Has the date for this incidentever been pinned down? Despite my not thinking that Hieronymous was in the suit, I'd love to know more.

He claims to have bought exactly the same suit from Philip Morris.

Um, didn't he say that Patterson had bought the suit from Morris?

Furthermore, why would you fake film footage showing a creature with breasts in puritanical 1967 America? It would be guaranteed not to be shown.

Because it was based on the Roe sighting? There are other explanations as well. The breasts on the costume used in the movie "The She Creature" sure didn't effect its ability to be shown.
 
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Edit - redundant info already covered in AMM's link re Baker.
 
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Once again the skeptics have no more to offer than the same speculation as the non skeptics. That said let's see some semantics bantered about concerning the following.

Skiptics often say that Gimlin didn't go to the PGF showing upon arrival back in Yakima because he didn't think the film was worth it. Or to put in another way that it looked like a bad suit. Claims are made that Gimlin stayed home because he was either tired or not feeling well. For what its worth I'd be tired too after the events of the previeous days. I may also be sick from having gone out in the rain trying to protect the tracks they found at Bluff Creek.

Consider this too for a moment. It has been speculated that Patterson set up the mime in the suit that morning then went back and tampered with Gimlin's rifle by putting blanks in it ,just in case Gimlin got trigger, happy before having Gimlin accompany him back to the "hoax site". Yet nothing has ever emerged that Gimlin later found blanks in his rifle. Are we to assume that after Bluff Creek Gimlin hung up his guns? What I'm saying here is loading the hypothetical blanks into Gimlin's gun is one of the more silly arguments skeptics make.

Lastly this character Dfoot recently made the bold statment that the PGF was shot around Labor Day 1967. Yet the foliage in the PGF is clearly in Autumn color.

The funny thig about this stuff is that the imaginations on both sides of the issue are as going through an amazing amount of speculation in order to prove thier points.
 
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