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Old 12th April 2008, 05:10 PM   #25
Dancing David
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Originally Posted by wogoga View Post
The human genome differs from the chimpanzee genome by only 35 million base pairs, of which about 5 million are thought to be active. Compare that to the total genome of around 3 billion base pairs.
This means: 5 million base pairs corresponding to 10 million bits or 1.25 megabyte are assumed to explain all the progress
Progress? Progress? What kind of idea is that is biology? It has about a much meaning as dianetics. Do you really understand what you are talking about? The proto chimp/human was most likely as adapted to it's enviroment as we are.

Progress, you mean like having chlorophyll in our skin and being able to make our own food?
from chimp-like apes to humans, including human language and intelligence. See Missing genetic information refutes neo-Darwinism.
So disregarding the inactive mutations, there needs to have been time for about 5*10^6 beneficial point mutations to take place. That's all.
We agree on the facts, but the question is whether this change of 5 million base pairs (or a similar number) can explain human evolution from chimp-like apes.
Yeah right, what if it just happens to include the right million pairs?
The rate of point mutations is roughly 100 per birth.
In my argument I assumed "that the number of relevant base pairs (i.e. without junk DNA) is 100'000'000 pairs per chromosome set". Using a point-mutation rate of 10^-6, we get your roughly 100 relevant point-mutations per birth. 100'000'000 * 10^-6 = 100.

Or do you mean roughly three relevant point-mutations in the around 10^8 relevant base pairs and a point-mutation rate of around 3*10^-8?

In any case, if mutations are purely random then the probability of detrimental effects is substantially higher than of useful effects. One cannot deny this fact. So on average, the genetic disposition of the child with these 100 mutations is obviously worse than without these mutations.

That is an unsupported assertion. Can you show why? Really?

Or just assert that it must be true. You do know that the error rate is already high don't you?

Assert away, you sure don't need evidence.
After a few hundred generations, any beneficial mutation will spread throughout the genome.
I do not deny the fact that such "beneficial" mutations have spread in the human genome. But I'm sure that this spread cannot be explained by random mutation and selection.
Funny, you just ignored my point which is that variation in expression of traits is enough to do it, you don't need the mutations at all.

Here I will bold it for you:

You don't need mutations, variation in the expression of traits is sufficient!

And what don't you like about selection as a mechanism?

Say that you have a population where each individual has an average number of N ratio of children that live to be reproductive and then you have a reproductive benefit where B is the number of extra children that will survive to reproduce.

So after one generation we have Pop. 1 P(1)[2]=N2, pop(1)[3]=N3 so we have general case where in Pop 910 where for a succesive generation S the
Population 1=NS

But for Pop.2 P(2)[2]=N(N+B) P(2)[3]=N(N2+BN+B) P(2)[4]=N(N3+BN2+BN+B)

Now I did not do the iterative notation correctly but the idea is to see that for each succesive generation in Pop. 2 you will have the extra factor of the B addition but you will also have the exponential growth of the prior B successors, which will lead to an increase of Pop. 2 over Pop.1
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Last edited by Dancing David; 12th April 2008 at 05:14 PM.
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