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Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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It might have helped had you clarified that earlier. So are you saying there aren't hundreds of fresh/new sightings each year?

I said not all sightings are recent - I don't have time to look up the post now, but maybe you can check it. I thought that was clear.

There may be that many, but not all sightings get reported. Reports go to different groups, so they're not in one central location and not all are published.

And yet there are numerous sightings of bigfoot crossing the road, or being observed from a moving vehicle. Why, if bigfoot is as intelligent as some imply, and able to live in areas so remote that humans seldom, if ever, visit, why so many sightings on or near roads?

Because people travel.

In the case of The Dalles, there was forest within an easy walk (for an animal that can cover 25 miles in a night, according to Byrne.)

Your English is fine, it's your logic I'm wondering about.

I get misunderstood so much I thought it must be my English.

The questions that were posed were these:

"Why can't it be tracked and captured? Or hunted and killed? Or just documented in its natural habitat, nature film style?"

How is anyone qualified to answer those?

The field researchers attempting to do those things have more information than I would. I know I wouldn't have time to aim the camera in a typical sighting. I know setting up camp in a possibly active area gets me a nice cookout and some interesting owl calls. I know the biggest bush crashing I've ever heard was caused by a small rabbit.

Don't ask me.
 
You're dodging the question. Have you seen it or not?
First of all, "read Krantz, read Meldrum, see LMS" is a complete dead end for you as an argument. It does not matter how many times one wades through bigfootery texts and videos, the outcome is always the same- there's no reliable evidence. Most of them are nothing but attempts to repack and sell the same evidence pieces and try to convince the reader they are better than they actually are, accompained with some new (usually baseless) speculations. A single thing will convince skeptics that there's something else behind bigfootery other than a modern myth - reliable evidence (no, it does not take a body) and good methodology. "Read Krantz, read Meldrum, see LMS" can not substitute the absence of the above.

You by now should already be aware that I am not the type of person who relys on second-hand comments, so here's your answer, as if you actually needed one.

Now, stop dodging, LAL, and tell me - the book and the DVD- they use or not anecdotal evidence?

As though "bigfootery" is responsible for that.
Who are the people responsible for Biscardi, Moneymaker, Creekfreak, GA boyz, Freeman, Bulletmaker, Ivan Marx, Lisa Shiels, Mary Green, Janice Carter, [add footer hoaxer/kook of you preference here]? Who buys their stuff?
Skeptics?

Who are the people which keep presenting evidence of poor quality and flawed reasonings to back bigfeet?
Skeptics?

Only if you choose to relegate it to the tabloids and refuse to take it seriously. There are a few scientists willing to look in to it. The climate may be changing.
The problem LAL, is that once I took it seriously. More than once I've looked in to this stuff seriously. And there's very little to be taken seriously.

Yes, the climate may be changing, a body may be produced very soon, there’s some group with amazing evidence waiting for the right time to release it, stay tuned, some new imagery are amazingly clear, the rapture is coming, planet X will cause havoc very soon, the Maya calendar predict the end of the world.

See the study on the teeth wear. It's most like that of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees eat meat.

There were forests with abundant food. Gigantopithecus was not a specialized bamboo eater (as Ciochon thought at first) although they did eat bamboo, and were not confined to bamboo forests.

I got the phrase from Dr. Meldrum who cited the study. Dr. David Daegling, who was one of the authors of the study, used the phrase "fairly eclectic" here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=uJ...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
If you read the articles I linked previously, you probably saw its not the way you wrote. The papers clearly state the creature was herbivorous; they merely say that the evidence points towards these animals also eating plants other than bamboo. The comparison with chimpanzees (which have some meat in their diet, depending on the group in question) is quite a stretch; going even further and comparing it to a mythical pig-throwing, deer-eviscerating, salmon-eating, mussel-collecting, rodent-catcher bipedal brown, reddish-brown, red, black, dark brown, white giant ape is baseless speculation.

There was a flurry of sightings near The Dalles, Oregon, that might indicate sasquatches can cross grassland if not actually inhabit it.
Speculation based on nothing but anecdotal evidence. Bad science at best, pseudoscience actually.

According to "sighting reports", bigfeet are also known to lie down in roads, climb trees, throw pigs, eviscerate deer, rock cars, steal beans at someone's backyard, swim, smell worse than skunks, abduct humans, rape humans, emit infrasound, bash trees, collects mussels, knock on woods, twist trees, have glowing eyes, walk on all fours, throw rocks and pine cones, twist trees, hide in corn fields, eat worms, bury their dead, speak, eat rodents and salmon, live across most North America and the list goes on.... Hey Drew, is my list longer than yours?
Bigfoot killed my spelling! How about that one?

Why should I read your posts (again) when I can read Ciochon, Daegling, et al. They wrote it up.
Make sure to, when reading Ciochon, not miss the many parts where it becomes clear that the footer arguments trying to pose gigantopithecus as bigfeet are very weak. Make sure you will not cherry-pick a word or a few sentences in an attempt to back your position.
 
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She would have given the keynote address at the Willow Creek Symposium 2003 but had to go back to Africa. John Green filled in. Her taped comments can be seen on the DVD. She said she hoped it would make you think.

Does she have any functional evidence that Bigfoot exists? Make me think? Think what? Should I think that wordy words about Bigfoot are good substitutes for genuine evidence? Does she want me to think about what she told Flatow? Lots of Native Americans have told her the same sort of stories about sounds, and an Asian Yeti hair she read about sounded promising. Too bad the hair went nowhere.

What about her and Flatow mutually laughing about why she does what she does concerning Bigfoot? Don't you understand the significance of their laughing together? They were both laughing at the very end (never quoted by Bigfooters) because they both know that her belief is not scientifically based... it is romantic or woo.

You know that her organization made moves on Wikipedia to distance her from those with "agendas". Hello. They weren't talking about the agendas of Bigfoot skeptics.

She has nothing to offer Bigfooters other than her fame and romantic belief. But now she seems to want to put distance between herself and them.

Two of Murphy's books say Laverty and crew found the tracks the next day. Since Monday, not Saturday, was the next working day I assume this was an error. Was there a big Murphy roast on JREF and I missed it? Just why was I supposed to know that "by now"?

We've toasted Murphy on several issues. But this one is different. It was Roger Knights that talked about the "Laverty Date Error" on BFF. The error was exposed when Meldrum interviewed Laverty. Then it appeared in Perez's "Bigfoot Times". Then RK posted it on BFF over a year ago. We've also discussed it here. That's why you should have known it. Old stuff now. It's curious that this bold error existed for so long. It's as if the Pattycakes didn't care about confirming facts, and Laverty never really cared about what the Pattycakes had been saying. BFF thread with the info.
 
Speculation based on nothing but anecdotal evidence. Bad science at best, pseudoscience actually.

According to "sighting reports", bigfeet are also known to lie down in roads, climb trees, throw pigs, eviscerate deer, rock cars, steal beans at someone's backyard, swim, smell worse than skunks, abduct humans, rape humans, emit infrasound, bash trees, collects mussels, knock on woods, twist trees, have glowing eyes, walk on all fours, throw rocks and pine cones, twist trees, hide in corn fields, eat worms, bury their dead, speak, eat rodents and salmon, live across most North America and the list goes on.... Hey Drew, is my list longer than yours?
Bigfoot killed my spelling! How about that one?


Dont forget the latest ones

snake bite treating,wrestling,clothes wearing,horse back riding, hunter carrying,bicycle chasing,skin wearing, jeep overthrowing, bulletproof and "fence passer througher"


Yeah, them thar "site-n" reports sho gives sum gud inferma-shun that certainly helps build a good quality database for legitimate research.
 
Hey Drew, is my list longer than yours?

That's a rather personal question sir! - Graham Chapman


Don't forget my most recent addition to the list,

Unclassified, Hairy... Primate, with an under-developed flight-response mechanism. (i.e. Patty's nonchalant walk across the sandbar)
 
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Speculation based on nothing but anecdotal evidence. Bad science at best, pseudoscience actually.

According to "sighting reports", bigfeet are also known to lie down in roads, climb trees, throw pigs, eviscerate deer, rock cars, steal beans at someone's backyard, swim, smell worse than skunks, abduct humans, rape humans, emit infrasound, bash trees, collects mussels, knock on woods, twist trees, have glowing eyes, walk on all fours, throw rocks and pine cones, twist trees, hide in corn fields, eat worms, bury their dead, speak, eat rodents and salmon, live across most North America and the list goes on.... Hey Drew, is my list longer than yours?
Bigfoot killed my spelling! How about that one?

Dont forget the latest ones

snake bite treating,wrestling,clothes wearing,horse back riding, hunter carrying,bicycle chasing,skin wearing, jeep overthrowing, bulletproof and "fence passer througher"


Yeah, them thar "site-n" reports sho gives sum gud inferma-shun that certainly helps build a good quality database for legitimate research.
Horse throwing! Don't forget the horse throwing. Oh yeah, and sideways shuffling. They do that, you know.
 
Why would loggers find bodies? Sick and dying animals hole up. When the death has occurred the scavenger system takes over and the body is reduced to practically nothing in days. I've seen plenty of clear cuts in the PNW and it would take a very alert logger to notice a few bones mixed in with the rocks. Bones are quickly covered in moss. Club moss grows over talus in full sun and would hide bones for some time even with the trees gone.

In WNC the forests are being allowed to grow back after extensive overcutting in the 20's and 30's. There's very little logging going on. One operation I saw looked like a thinning - there was so little disturbance a body could have been concealed in a nearby clump of rhodys and not been noticed.
Holy apologism, Batman! It's a dead bear in the woods!:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ex_magician/1959113727/

(Warning: dead bear yuck.)

We've shown LAL dead bears before but maybe she forgot. Lu, you may be tempted to tell me about the rarity Bigfoots...

Considering they may inhabit virtually all the marketable timber in the country, the timber industry might have reason to not want reports to be taken too seriously.

Everywhere yet nowhere.
 
BREAKING NEWS! Verne Langdon encounters dimwit Pattycake "nightscream" on BFF. All hell breaks loose. Will he join the banned ranks that includes Dfoot?


Verne Langdon said:
Hey, Wetdream!

The last time I read something like you just wrote it was written in seven different colors of Crayon.

As I recall, you never DID take "this guy" seriously, nor did you ever apologize for your last uneducated outburst toward me.

You're a very nasty little person, and I suggest you seek help. There are counsellors available - see the Yellow Pages, or surf the Internet.

Meanwhile, while you're waiting for the bus to arrive, re-read the first line over the pictures wherein I refer to the burlesque gorilla as "crummy" - it is in a way a neat suit. I'd call it "funky vaudeville".

Regarding the Corrigan gorilla or the early Tarzan suit, either ape "caught" running through the forest on grainy 16mm film could most definitely fool YOU if you maintain your current mode of stupor.

And as for Charlie Gemora, few in the movie industry would agree with your opinion of his QUITE exemplary suit(s). Have you ever seen "Phantom Of The Rue Morgue" (1954) or "The Monster And The Girl" aka "D.O.A." (1941)? No? THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE.

I'm afraid I've upset you, Wetdream, and this is a terrible thing. Searching for Bigfoot should be fun. Frank Hansen certainly had fun with his Minnesota Iceman, and made TONS of money with it!

And everybody who saw it had a great time with it too.

Still! To this very day!!

Good for Frank! He proved to be an excellent showman, one of whom P.T. Barnum would most certainly have approved.

I'll tell you what, Wetdream. YOU stay off my post, and I'll stop answering you.

That goes for anyone else who doesn't like me or what I have to say.

BUZZ OFF! I was here FIRST!

Kind of like just sitting there on that dirty couch in your tenement flat, Wetdream, scarfing down your dinner of Nacho Chips while sucking on your fifth can of Bud, bitching about the Television show you're watching.

Don't like it?

Just change channels.

- VL

P.S. Ask your mommy for help spelling "rediculous."
 
No. When KKZ talks about "leveling the forest" he is making reference to MOTS's own claimed Bigfoot encounter. He never saw the beast, but it was smashing and crashing through the woods. All the animals of the forest were fleeing ahead of it. The whole time this unseen force is letting out a roar as loud as a "jet plane".

It's one of those ridiculous encounter stories that is worth little more than a chuckle.
Your display of memory is underwhelming. Each episode was separate.

WP's memory is incorrect? You didn't tell us the anecdote as WP described it? As I recall you told us that you were chased by a Bigfoot that leveled the forest, that animals fleed before it, and that it roared as loud as a jet plane. IIRC you also told us of a separate incident where you were on a trail with two family members when you thought you saw a Bigfoot. Your family members did not think they were looking at a Bigfoot. I believe you said you threw something at it and it moved somewhat? The encounter ended without incident. I could, of course, search out the post if you disagree.
 
BREAKING NEWS! Verne Langdon encounters dimwit Pattycake "nightscream" on BFF. All hell breaks loose. Will he join the banned ranks that includes Dfoot?
That guy is the second coming of Lyndon. Anyone who feels that Bigfoot enthusiasts are complete idiots will get a lot of mileage out of him.

Looks like Verne showed himself the door:

Verne Langdon at BFF said:
Of course you're correct, Paul, and you have every right to close down this thread.

In fact, I'm asking that you do so now, and remove it entirely from your Bigfoot Forum.

I came on here to share my knowledge, not to be insulted by people who were neither present at the time, nor have any knowledge whatsoever of what transpired other than what I have shared.

I've enjoyed nearly everyone while here, and believe I've made some very cool new friends.

As for the other few, I didn't need them yesterday, and I won't be needing them tomorrow.

Thank you Paul, and Brian, and Chunk, and AlbertaSasquatch, and Ben, and Incorrigible1, and my other new Friends.

Adios, Amigos.

- Verne Langdon

P.S. Any of my new FRIENDS wanting to stay in touch can do so at vernelangdon@cox.net, or through my website at vernelangdon.com.

Maybe RayG or Diogenes could shoot him a PM invitation to the JREF. Come on over, Verne!
 
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Interesting legacy of Hollywood Guys on BFF:

Chris Walas - Outta there.
Dfoot - Banned.
Verne Langdon - Outta there.
Bill Munns - Present and active.

Did I miss anyone?
 
Mmmmkay…

According to "sighting reports", bigfeet are also known to lie down in roads, climb trees, throw pigs, eviscerate deer, rock cars, steal beans at someone's backyard, swim, smell worse than skunks, abduct humans, rape humans, emit infrasound, bash trees, collects mussels, yell, knock on woods, twist trees, have glowing eyes, walk on all fours, throw rocks and pine cones, kill humans, howl, twist trees, scream, use tools and adornments, hide in corn fields, eat worms, make noises louder than jet engines, bury their dead, speak, eat rodents and salmon, live in clans or alone across most North America, whistle, make noises imitating other animals, make braids in horses, snake bite treating, wrestling, clothes wearing, horse back riding, hunter carrying, bicycle chasing, skin wearing, jeep overthrowing, bulletproof, "fence passer througher", salt-trading, with an under-developed flight-response mechanism, throw horses, do sideways shufflings and can be black, dark-brown, brown, reddish-brow, tan, red, white or gray.

Better now?

Or should I also have added
Paranormal, shape-shifters, telepathic, invisible, interdimensional, UFO travelers…
 
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Interesting legacy of Hollywood Guys on BFF:

Chris Walas - Outta there.
Dfoot - Banned.
Verne Langdon - Outta there.
Bill Munns - Present and active.

Did I miss anyone?

Bill Munns tells us in his interview with Melissa Hovey that he was looking to join the Bigfoot enthusiast community. IIRC he heard Daniel Perez's anecdote which impressed him, found the BFF, then decided he wanted to join and give something to the community. Thus they have 12 tons of Munns.
 
Mmmmkay…


Better now?

Or should I also have added
Paranormal, shape-shifters, telepathic, invisible, interdimensional, UFO travelers…

Well, to keep it real- theres not enough "evidence" to fully substantiate those points about BF yet. We dont know if UFO's exist yet
 
throw pigs,

Not sure if this has been observed yet. I know of an account where a BF kills a pig by punching it.

steal beans at someone's backyard,

Steals beans inside a house using a screwdriver. Bigfoot departs with beans in stomach and screwdriver in hand.

make noises louder than jet engines,

Make noises that sound like, and are as loud as, a jet plane.

jeep overthrowing,

And VW shaking.

"fence passer througher",

And high fence stepper overer.

with an under-developed flight-response mechanism,

Sometimes over-developed, because it can also flee much faster than any potential attacker could ever hope to match. Note: May even be able to outrun and capture pronghorn antelope, but accounts of this are lacking.

Better now?

Yes, but it's a work in progress.
 
Shoot it.

Camera or gun? Presumably he has the camera at the ready, and not the rifle, since he went off to film. Where will he put the camera if he decides to use the rifle? Will he have time to jump off, put the camera in a saddle bag, get the rifle out of the scabbard...?

Does he keep the rifle with a round in the chamber?

We are talking about a creature that can hide very well and move very fast, so it can be on you very quickly from far away. Just like a Grizzly.

For example, should a hypothetical grizzly appear out of the woods and charge while Gimlin is looking down at the creek bank and filming, etc., Gimlin would be lucky to get a round off at it. He'd have to toss the camera for sure. There'd be no time to put it away, and he'd better already have a round in the chamber and even then he's going to have to be lucky...

Not to mention that his horse is surely going to throw him and bolt if suddenly confronted with a bigfoot (or a grizzly). Likely it will take his rifle with it and Bob will be defenseless.

In the 1967 interview, Roger and Bob are afraid of an encounter even with guns. Roger does not want to shoot one at all, even if attacked, because he thinks it will only be wounded and make the encounter even more dangerous.

R: A mess. . Both Bob and I, we had agreed that we will not shoot one of these creatures, and if she would attack us, whether we would be protecting our lives, I think that we would have to fear for our own lives if we were to wound one and, and make a total mess out of something like ....

So why is Bob riding off alone looking for another bigfoot when he believes the encounter will be extremely dangerous for him even if he uses his rifle. Plus, he is leaving Roger alone in the same situation.
 
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Yeah, them thar "site-n" reports sho gives sum gud inferma-shun that certainly helps build a good quality database for legitimate research.
Slight OT digression:

I think one can "know" bigfeet are real - say, a person who had a sighting (let's not enter in any discussions about the reality of the experience) - but this does not mean this person must embrace pseudoscience and the current bigfoot lore. Accepting the limitations of the currently available evidence, methods and "theories" would be a good and necessary starting point if one wants to make bigfootery better. Of course this will probably mean re-start from scratch and leaves a big gapping door open to the final conclusion being "no bigfoot". Too much for the tastes of some, I think, but if it’s supposed to be honest research...

I wonder about the reasons for the attachment to such poor methods and weak evidence (especially when it comes to individuals who are supposed to know at least a bit about scientific method). There's the "faith" factor stated by CrowLogic at that nice post of hers- maybe someday I'll write about what I agree and disagree with it.

But I have the impression that there's something else, perhaps the fear that better evidence will never show up. Maybe deep down they know the odds that it will never happen. It would be some form of denial. Anyway, its just wild speculation from my part and I will not attempt to defend it!
 
Can't Make it Any Easier for You

WP's memory is incorrect? You didn't tell us the anecdote as WP described it? As I recall you told us that you were chased by a Bigfoot that leveled the forest, that animals fleed before it, and that it roared as loud as a jet plane. IIRC you also told us of a separate incident where you were on a trail with two family members when you thought you saw a Bigfoot. Your family members did not think they were looking at a Bigfoot. I believe you said you threw something at it and it moved somewhat? The encounter ended without incident. I could, of course, search out the post if you disagree.

I disagree. Each episode led into the other.
 
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