Shattered lives where 9/11 truth is present.

Caper

Philosopher
Caper
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
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I actually had a hard time coming up with a subject line because I didn't want to categorily say that being a 9/11 truther or questioning the offical version of 9/11, will ruin you life or make you suffer extreme paranoia. That would be to much of a blanket statement.

..... But the Sean Fitzgerald story is not the first time I have found a tragedy, where 9/11 truth isn't far from the scene. Not responsible for (although some cases it could be argued), but there.

I know I have read about prominant truthers losing their spouses and I'm sure somewhere I read about a couple (they may have been actors or writters) where they commited suicide, where later it came out they began to get heavily involved in 9/11 truth before their downfall.

Basically, to shorten this up.................. I want to compile a list. So I'd like your input. Does anyone know of the couple I was talking about?
 
I heard Richard Gage's wife left him for being a 9/11 dingbat, but I can't verify.
 
I am sure depression is a strong factor in conspiracy theorists. Everyone is different of course.
 
The user (now banned) named jackchit, had some issue with his wife (leaving or dieing, I am not sure) and then his children became an issue. He also threatened to come to NYC and get Mark Roberts, IIRC.

TAM:)
 
RedIbis said:
Please review the fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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I agree, and I have been arguing this in the Sean Fitzgerald thread. However, I have to agree, that if one is mentally ill, in particular if the illness is of the delusional/paranoid subset (such as Bipolar, Schizophrenia, or some of the personality disorders), then such paranoid ideology as "the govt was behind 9/11" is a perfect match to fit into their distorted, paranoid world view.

I do not think that is the fallacy of which you speak.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
I agree, and I have been arguing this in the Sean Fitzgerald thread. However, I have to agree, that if one is mentally ill, in particular if the illness is of the delusional/paranoid subset (such as Bipolar, Schizophrenia, or some of the personality disorders), then such paranoid ideology as "the govt was behind 9/11" is a perfect match to fit into their distorted, paranoid world view.

I do not think that is the fallacy of which you speak.

TAM:)
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The personal problems that are being mentioned here would have to be shown to occur more frequently among the demonized "twoofers" to show any relationship. Unless this can be done, this is nothing more than another witchhunt.
 
Please review the fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I have been arguing this in the Sean Fitzgerald thread. However, I have to agree, that if one is mentally ill, in particular if the illness is of the delusional/paranoid subset (such as Bipolar, Schizophrenia, or some of the personality disorders), then such paranoid ideology as "the govt was behind 9/11" is a perfect match to fit into their distorted, paranoid world view.
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Aye.

What I'd be interested to see out of this thread is examples where 9/11 Truth activity is a definite cause of a person's life problems, instead of something that just happens to be there whenever bad things happen.

I'm sure plenty such examples exist. They shouldn't be hard to find.
 
parky76 said:
Me sorry..me no speakey da Martianese.
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It's Latin.

Don't ask me why all the informal fallacies have their titles written in Latin. I guess it just sounds cooler that way.
 
RedIbis said:
The personal problems that are being mentioned here would have to be shown to occur more frequently among the demonized "twoofers" to show any relationship. Unless this can be done, this is nothing more than another witchhunt.
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Hyperbole at its finest.

Anyway, no one is "witch hunting" here. You are reiterating exactly what I have been saying. You must show proof that Mental illness is more prevalent within the group calling itself "9/11 truth" compared to the general populous for the argument to carry any more weight then simple speculation.

What I am saying, based on my substantial experience in dealing with the mentally ill (though not as much as a psychiatrist), is that such paranoid theories as "Big Brother was in on it" which the 9/11 truth theories are, do feed into the paranoia mind set that many mentally ill patients suffer from. So does "Area 51 houses alien technology which the government is keeping secret".

TAM:)
 
I know of several really shattered people whose lives have been made much more difficult by "truth."

They all had some pre-existing mental illness; One is a Viet Nam vet with severe mental issues from that ordeal, one is a Gulf War vet, and the other is just a paranoid schizophrenic who chain-smokes as a form of self-medication and of course she won't take the meds she is prescribed because those come from the government and will re-program her and make her into a robot.

Every single one of them would be a whole lot better, that is, their conditions would be a lot more treatable without all of the group support that the "truth" movement provides them with on a nearly constant basis.

And that re-enforcement is provided by those both more and less sane than they are.

The latter cannot help themselves and need intervention.

The former should be ashamed of themselves for toying with insane people like that.
 
the trouble is, I am not sure if anyone knows which side (sane or not) Alex Jones falls into anymore.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
the trouble is, I am not sure if anyone knows which side (sane or not) Alex Jones falls into anymore.

TAM:)
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i think alex is very eccentric, maybe a little insane, a HUGE attention whore, and a big time opportunist.
 
bje said:
If 9/11 Truthers had reviewed that, there would be no 9/11 Truth Movement.
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If the government and media had been truthful there would be no need for a 9/11 truth movement.

I mean anyone with basic common sense and intelligence can see the official story is missing a lot of information.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
If the government and media had been truthful there would be no need for a 9/11 truth movement.

I mean anyone with basic common sense and intelligence can see the official story is missing a lot of information.
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What we all know is that there is no "official story" and you have yet to demonstrate the government or the media had anything to do with 9/11.

What's funny is your inability and refusal to answer questions about your claims which makes you the troll that was kicked off ATS and eventually from here.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
If the government and media had been truthful there would be no need for a 9/11 truth movement.

I mean anyone with basic common sense and intelligence can see the official story is missing a lot of information.
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It's amusing to watch this troll attempt to derail every single new thread with the same statements.
 
Yes, Richard Gage's wife left him over his 9-11 nuttery.

Sherry Clark claims her 9-11 Troofism broke up her marriage:

Sherry Clark can relate. When the raven-haired, Delaware, Ohio-born mother of two—a self-described Republican “trophy wife” who voted for George W. Bush twice—was converted to the cause last year, she was told by friends and relatives to seek mental help. The Presbyterian church she helped create, she said, suddenly wanted nothing to do with her or her activities. And she’s currently divorcing her husband, to whom she became an embarrassment and social liability.
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Kevin Barrett:

In addition, Barrett said he feels he ran a successful campaign despite the many obstacles he faced, including his arrest for violating a Sauk County court order forbidding contact with his family.
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Blair Gadsby:

It also helped him get out of the doghouse with his wife, who asked that her name not be included in this article. Gadsby said his wife, a nurse, did not want him to go on his hunger strike and was in tears when he returned home the first few nights.
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Lucus, who created a 9-11 Troof film called the Ultimate Con that promptly vanished:

I brought all this on myself. Before I went full blast on 911 truth, I had a career at a place I loved to work on the beach in Corpus Christi, Texas. I had a beautiful fiancé that I was supposed to marry on March 17th who I had been with for 7 years. I left her on Jan 1st of this year because I did not want the powers that be coming down on her for something I was doing. She was trying to finish school and I did not want to do anything to ruin that. To my great and utter regret she has now met someone else and is moving on without me which was the final nail in my coffin. That has hurt me in ways I can’t even express right now.
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Note that several of those ascribe their family breakup directly to their embrace of the Troof. Ditto with the guy from England, who was so happy when his estranged wife died in an automobile accident.
 
Caper said:
I know I have read about prominant truthers losing their spouses and I'm sure somewhere I read about a couple (they may have been actors or writters) where they commited suicide, where later it came out they began to get heavily involved in 9/11 truth before their downfall.

Basically, to shorten this up.................. I want to compile a list. So I'd like your input. Does anyone know of the couple I was talking about?
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That would be Artists Jeremy Blake and Theresa Duncan.

http://nymag.com/news/features/36091/

Being a Detroit based artist I had met Duncan in the past, not a friend, just one of the close Detroit artist scene.

Her blog http://theresalduncan.typepad.com/about.html
 
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Gary McKinnon. He has been in trouble for his UFO conspiracy beliefs for quite a while now, but also has a touch of the 9/11 type.


But he also caused concern when, calling himself Solo, he left a threatening message on an army computer suggesting the September 11 attacks were an 'inside job'.
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Here are some more victims of CT's in general.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
If the government and media had been truthful there would be no need for a 9/11 truth movement.

I mean anyone with basic common sense and intelligence can see the official story is missing a lot of information.
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Then why is it truthers are NEVER the sensible or intelligent ones?

Why is it the so call experts truthers try and palm off NEVER the best in their fields? Hell most of them are not even second rate experts.
 
Don't forget Jones Town.

30 years ago this month! 918 people. The greatest loss of American civilian life in a non-natural disaster until September 11, 2001.

Jim Jones followers were fed anti government conspiracy claptrap and poisoned Flavor Aid (Kool-Aid got a bad rap).
 
ULTIMA1 said:
If the government and media had been truthful there would be no need for a 9/11 truth movement.

I mean anyone with basic common sense and intelligence can see the official story is missing a lot of information.
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I've been waiting for this moment. Ultima1, prove that my journalism professor was involved in 9/11. Go ahead. You say he was involved, this is your chance to prove it.

Speaking on the thread, I think the overall problem is obsession be it debunker or truther. Arguments for both sides can be made if either one became obsessed with their view. I'm sure there are some 9/11 truthers who don't believe the official story, but they still come home after a hard day's work and read the newspaper, and sit and eat with their family and don't make it a daily obsessed part of their life delving into braindead paranoia (unlike ULTIMA1).
 
Brainster said:
Yes, Richard Gage's wife left him over his 9-11 nuttery.
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This from your link is interesting to me...

Gage talks about the growing numbers of A&E members. He mentions he'll be in Phoenix on June 28th (swell, I have to sit through the idiot's two-hour lecture in order to get in a line to ask him most likely one question). He also claims that thanks to Karen Johnson, he'll be giving a one-hour presentation to the other Republican state senators here. We'll see about that; I think I can make enough of a stink that he gets uninvited, or that at the very least the senators respectfully discover a more urgent appointment. Gage claims he plans to have 1000 Architects & Engineers on board by 9-11-08, which is dreaming; he has 395 according to his website and would need to add about six a day to get there.

Now why would you do that? If Richard Gage and 9/11 truth are so insane why do you spend so much time trying to stifle it? I'm serious. This is a thread about shattered lives and you are chiming in about how Richard Gage and a bunch of other people have suffered because of being involved with 9/11 truth? What is this some kind of cowardly scare tactic?

I was first pointed to screwloosechange a while back and I had always just assumed it was some kid with nothing better to do. I don't mean this as an insult I really want to know. What kind of life did you have before 9/11? Was it anything that could be shattered or was it shattered already? You sound so bitter.
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
This from your link is interesting to me...

Gage talks about the growing numbers of A&E members. He mentions he'll be in Phoenix on June 28th (swell, I have to sit through the idiot's two-hour lecture in order to get in a line to ask him most likely one question). He also claims that thanks to Karen Johnson, he'll be giving a one-hour presentation to the other Republican state senators here. We'll see about that; I think I can make enough of a stink that he gets uninvited, or that at the very least the senators respectfully discover a more urgent appointment. Gage claims he plans to have 1000 Architects & Engineers on board by 9-11-08, which is dreaming; he has 395 according to his website and would need to add about six a day to get there.

Now why would you do that? If Richard Gage and 9/11 truth are so insane why do you spend so much time trying to stifle it?
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Because so many people have ruined their lives in the pursuit of 9-11 "Truth". I want to make sure that there aren't more Richard Gages and Kevin Barretts and Sean Fitzgeralds and Lucuses, etc.

Consider it community service.
 
Thanks everyone!! Again I didn't start this with an intent to be unfair to truthers as being obessed with anything, including arguing with them online could take focus away from more important things in life.... But I think some of this can be relevant.
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
What kind of life did you have before 9/11? Was it anything that could be shattered or was it shattered already? You sound so bitter.
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Is that the topic of this thread? Seeing that 3 people were suspended today for derailing threads, do you think it's a good idea to derail threads? please don't answer and get back to the topic.
 
~enigma~ said:
Is that the topic of this thread? Seeing that 3 people were suspended today for derailing threads, do you think it's a good idea to derail threads? please don't answer and get back to the topic.
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All three in less than 120 seconds!!


On topic;

Did I mention in this thread that Jeff from Canada had to go to court because of vandalism a year or so ago? For throwing rocks at a masons lodge? I can't find the post he made on loose change telling his fellow forum members that he might be going away for awhile. Any updates?
 
Caper said:
Thanks alot. I read the article, but didn't find anything on 9/11 in there, but I'm sure I read it somewhere.... I thought they had meetings in the bottom of the church.
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Yes later they were involved in the truther thing, but more obsessed with Scientology. They seemed to be your typical trendy conspiracy theorist types. Read Duncans blog with "Current Affairs"

From her blog
"The Wit Of The Staircase would like to encourage its readers to spend the summer of 2007 engaged in learning the truth about 9/11. To that end we'll be publishing many articles like this one below on the subject. We will also be particpating in what we hope will be a very large rally for 9/11 Truth at the site of the attack on the sixth anniversary of 9/11 in New York City this fall.

"Fear attempts to silence dissenters. As the Truth Movement gains momentum and amasses credibility, the fear profiteers have begun heralding yet another 'threat' to National Security - inquiring minds. This is both good news and bad news. We are no longer ignorable. Fearing exposure, the Czars of Propaganda know that 'Truthers' must be branded and discredited if government corruption and corporate fraud is to flourish unabated. This said, prepare for an intensified Smear-and-Fear Campaign. Any group or individual who vocally questions the official story of 9/11 or who exercises the right to demand Government accountability will be labeled 'Anti-American and Anti-Patriotic'.

A well-documented strategy of propagandists throughout modern history, dissolving credibility through character assassination is a calculated tactic utilized to persuade the uninformed public to turn a deaf ear, to, in effect, remain uninformed. It remains to be seen if this line of attack will succeed, and success is dependent upon each individual proponent of freedom. As with the human longing for security, the natural desire for affiliation and acceptance works in favor of the war-mongering, power-hungry elite, for they know only the bravest of the brave will dare risk ostracism for a noble cause."

Among others
 
A W Smith said:
All three in less than 120 seconds!!


On topic;

Did I mention in this thread that Jeff from Canada had to go to court because of vandalism a year or so ago? For throwing rocks at a masons lodge? I can't find the post he made on loose change telling his fellow forum members that he might be going away for awhile. Any updates?
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I'm sorry - I know this thread is about "shattered" lives, but I can't help but laugh at that one.
 
Caper said:
Thanks alot. I read the article, but didn't find anything on 9/11 in there, but I'm sure I read it somewhere.... I thought they had meetings in the bottom of the church.
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They were taken in by Pastor Frank Morales of St. Marks' church, who also happens to host the regular meetings of the NY 9-11 Troof Group, and who was formerly married to Nancy Jo Sales, who wrote a memorable profile of the Loose Change boys in 2006. I think there is some brief mention in the New York Magazine article of that couple attending one or two of the Troof meetings, but in this case I'd say it's just peripheral to their other paranoias.

ETA: Ah, here's another article on the couple by Sales where the Trooferism is mentioned.
 
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