Why are truthers still debating the same old people?

They're obviously not interested in learning. They really seem to enjoy the attention.
 
stateofgrace said:
This is a spin off from this thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143066

So why come here? Why try and put your case forward to such an uncompromising crowd?

What are you hoping to achieve by posting here?

What,exactly,is your motive for posting on JREF ?
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You ask a good question. I think the answer shows why "truthers" are not really a movement. If your purpose was to influence public policy, you'd seek out every opportunity to make your case and refute the opposition's. Frauds like David Griffin and Richard Gage hustle uncritical suckers in order to make a modest living. They have no interest in debates with genuine authorities. They never seek to reach a wider audience because they understand themselves to be phonies. Imagine a loon like Heiwa attempting to peddle his mad garble of physics to real engineers. He'd provoke the sort of ridicule he receives every day on this forum. Imagine the delusional Ultima1 or the empty-headed roundhead testifying in front of an investigating committee. After they've branded as lies everything that exposes their nonsense, their bag of tricks is empty.
"Truthers" need these forums. They have nowhere else to go.
 
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FineWine said:
"Truthers" need these forums. They have nowhere else to go.
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Precisely. The "movement" peaked in 2006, and little has been heard from them outside of the internet since. The only way they can satisfy their need to incessantly rant using faulty logic and poor reasoning, is by preaching to the choir and arguing with people who know far more about the issue than they do.
 
stateofgrace said:
So why come here? Why try and put your case forward to such an uncompromising crowd?
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Probably so it gets nailed into my head that some people in any subject area, not only in CT's will change their mind regardless of the effort put in to show relevant material. The distinction I make is that unlike a discussion in politics where the answers are more likely to be based on one's values, a discussion in CT's, especially this one, involves discussion on scientific concepts where answers are much more defined. This is why I prefer the conspiracy theories over subjects like politics... for those curious.

stateofgrace said:
What are you hoping to achieve by posting here?
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Some practical debate practice via subjects which fall in-line with subjects I've studied. At the same time I hope to help others understand the same concepts regardless of success...

stateofgrace said:
What,exactly,is your motive for posting on JREF ?
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My answer would be the culmination of the first two.
 
stateofgrace said:
So why come here? Why try and put your case forward to such an uncompromising crowd?
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Hopefully as i do in other fourms, to talk those who just go by what they have been told to at least do research to find the truth.

If you only go by what you have been told then you are really disrepecting those who died and thier families.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Hopefully as i do in other fourms, to talk those who just go by what they have been told to at least do research to find the truth.

If you only go by what you have been told then you are really disrepecting those who died and thier families.
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So the 9/11 commission report, is it a lie? Were the commissioner liars? Did they cover up the truth?

How about the FBI? Are there documents fake or real Roger?

How about the NIST report? Did the scientists that investigate the collapses lie?

You see, no matter how you get your evidence, through reports prepared for the public, or FOIA, it call comes down to trust.

If the USG was willing to lie about so much, what makes you think they didn't create fake documents, so that anyone who requests such things via FOIA still gets the official version of 9/11.

Just because you (like others here have) request things via FOIA, does not mean that only that evidence is to be taken as valid. If you are going to presume that all evidence not gathered via that method is fake, then what is stopping "the perps" from faking that evidence as well?

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
So the 9/11 commission report, is it a lie? Were the commissioner liars? Did they cover up the truth?
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The 9/11 commsission staff have stated they did not have enough time or money to do a proper investigation.

Also the 9/11 commisison only compiled reports from other agencies.

How about the FBI? Are there documents fake or real Roger?
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What documents, the ones that have not been released yet?

How about the NIST report? Did the scientists that investigate the collapses lie?
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1. NIST is not a investigating agency for 9/11. Only the FBI and NTSB are the official investigating agencies for 9/11.

2. NIST reports have been found to contridict themselves.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
The 9/11 commsission staff have stated they did not have enough time or money to do a proper investigation.

Also the 9/11 commisison only compiled reports from other agencies.
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Yet they all put their names to it. None of them came out and said any of it was untrue.

and compiling reports from other agencies IS EXACTLY WHAT you are doing with your FOIA requests. You are compiling reports and documents from OTHER AGENCIES such as the FBI.

What documents, the ones that have not been released yet?
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http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/911commreport.htm
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/

For starters...

1. NIST is not a investigating agency for 9/11. Only the FBI and NTSB are the official investigating agencies for 9/11.
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WRONG. NIST was an investigating agency. They were tasked with investigating why the towers collapsed. Part of 9/11 was the collapse of the WTC towers.

2. NIST reports have been found to contridict themselves.
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sure, and I know since you have read them (ya right) that you will show us where they contradict themselves.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Yet they all put their names to it. None of them came out and said any of it was untrue.
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Wrong again and again.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/6418
Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003:
"I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."


and compiling reports from other agencies IS EXACTLY WHAT you are doing with your FOIA requests. You are compiling reports and documents from OTHER AGENCIES such as the FBI.
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I am getting facts, evidence and reports from FOIA request.


WRONG. NIST was an investigating agency.
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Wrong again. Show me the law that states NIST is an official investigating agency for criminal investigations.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Hopefully as i do in other fourms, to talk those who just go by what they have been told to at least do research to find the truth.

If you only go by what you have been told then you are really disrepecting those who died and thier families.
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What people say on this sub-forum is of little consequence. Have you contacted American Airlines about the wheel hub found at the Pentagon?
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Wrong again and again.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/6418
Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003:
"I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."




I am getting facts, evidence and reports from FOIA request.




Wrong again. Show me the law that states NIST is an official investigating agency for criminal investigations.
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1. In your earlier post, you did not state "criminal investigations" you said official investigative agencies for 9/11 There many elements to investigate wrt 9/11 besides the criminal element. Be clearer next time.

2. What Facts are you getting? What "evidence" are you getting? All I have seen so far is a request for a CRITIC and follow up reports. Please enlighten me on what evidence and facts you are getting via FOIA requests.

As for Max Cleland, he left VERY early in the commission history, and if you read Shenon's book "Commission" you would know why he left.

That quote you keep posting from 9/11blogger (suspect source to say the least) even states that the line you use is a "compilation" from many speeches.

Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003:
"I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."
[GW's note: these quotes are pasted together from several speeches.]
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Even if it were not, The cover up is not what you think...He means a cover up of incompetence, and ignorance, not a cover up of an inside job, or allowing 9/11 to happen on purpose.

TAM:)
 
Alt+F4 said:
Have you contacted American Airlines about the wheel hub found at the Pentagon?
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I can do that, then make you and other beleivers the biggest joke. Do you really want that?

Have you contacted anyone about anything or just posting opinions and theories that you have ben told?
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
I can no that, then make you and other beleivers the biggest joke. Do you really want that?

Have you contacted anyone about anything or just posting opinions and theories that you have ben told?
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Then do it...go on, I dare you. Call them. Come back and tell us who you talked to and what they said. I am sure someone here will verify it (since you are big on verification).

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
1. In your earlier post, you did not state "criminal investigations" you said official investigative agencies for 9/11 There many elements to investigate wrt 9/11 besides the criminal element. Be clearer next time.
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You are aware that 9/11 is s criminal investigation correct?

2. What Facts are you getting? What "evidence" are you getting? .
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I am getting facts and evidence from research, something you seem to know little about. I also get facts and evidence from FOIA request. I HAVE BEEN POSTING THEM FOR A LONG TIME.


He means a cover up of incompetence, and ignorance, not a cover up of an inside job, or allowing 9/11 to happen on purpose.
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Thanks for agreeing the 9/11 commission did not have enough time or money to do a proper investigation and were probably incompetent.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I can no that, then make you and other beleivers the biggest joke. Do you really want that?

Have you contacted anyone about anything or just posting opinions and theories that you have ben told?
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Is that what this is about for you, making posters on this sub-fourm "the biggest joke"? You won't contact American Airlines because it will make me feel bad...or it won't?

Whenever I have evidence of wrongdoing, I do something about it. As a teacher, it happens more often then you would think.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I also get facts and evidence from FOIA request.
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You know the reason why FOIA requests take so long, right? It gives the government the opportunity to make the information up, so I've been told.
 
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