no serial numbers were identified from flight 77

DGM said:
Just to be accurate;
There are places in this country that "turning off the transponder" will make you invisible. Flight 93 flew through one of those areas. The US is a big country and no, radar coverage is not seamless. As far as the "truthers" claims go, Total BS.
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Just to really be accurate the primary radar return was always present on radar, it's only that the specific sector (controller) working the aircraft at Indianapolis could not see it.

Rather than getting into technicalities about it, consider it a data processing issue, not a radar issue at all. At the time the FAA was starting to implement ATC Center Sectors with no primary capability at the radar display. Since a transponder was/is REQUIRED in Class A airspace (above 18,000' MSL) and if an aircraft loses it's transponder it MUST exit Class A airspace and since that Sector only worked high altitude traffic (on Jet Routes above 18,000' MSL) it made sense.

Remember Indianapolis Center did not know about the events in NY yet, so they were concerned about an aircraft loss, not one that had turned around and headed the other way. By the time they realized the REAL SITUATION AA77 was several hundred miles East of it's last known position.

After the fact, AA77's entire track from Dulles to just short of the Pentagon can be plotted via radar returns.

allradar.jpg
 
Audible Click said:
What is an NSA CRITIC?
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To the best of my limited understanding a CRITIC is a high priority message on the or a CRITICal intelligence communication network. As might be inferred, sometimes something needs to get through, right away, to recipients who might be able to act on it or the intell might be highly perishable.
 
Thanks for the info. I've asked this question in a few other threads and get the impression that nobody is quite sure what it is.
 
Audible Click said:
What is an NSA CRITIC?
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fezzic said:
To the best of my limited understanding a CRITIC is a high priority message on the or a CRITICal intelligence communication network. As might be inferred, sometimes something needs to get through, right away, to recipients who might be able to act on it or the intell might be highly perishable.
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Yes you are correct.

I have an FOiA request to get a NSA Critic declassified.
 
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stateofgrace said:
Can you please provide serial numbers for these
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I never stated they were from a specific plane. If i had then i would find the serial numbers.


Unlike Beachnut who stated the wheel at the Pentagon was from AA778 but cannot post any information on serial numbers or any other evidence when asked.
 
You mean the serial numbers gathered by the FBI? Those numbers that are on the official reports, which have not been released yet?!?
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I never stated they were from a specific plane. If i had then i would find the serial numbers.


Unlike Beachnut who stated the wheel at the Pentagon was from AA778 but cannot post any information on serial numbers or any other evidence when asked.
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Roger - In lieu of the FBI or NTSB ever feeling the need to release a list of serial numbers to parts found at the scene, have you bothered to contact Boeing to see if they can furnish you with a complete list of parts and serial numbers that make up the entire aircraft. This will be needed for your confirmation/verification process at a later date, once the FBI/NTSB do/dont release a list just for you.

This thread need never have been started. It certainly should have ceased at post number 5.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I never stated they were from a specific plane. If i had then i would find the serial numbers.


Unlike Beachnut who stated the wheel at the Pentagon was from AA778 but cannot post any information on serial numbers or any other evidence when asked.
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The landing gear is from Flight 77. The DNA was proved to be from Flight 77 Passengers. The FDR was from Flight 77, and it was proved. Flight 77 was tracked by RADAR to the impact at the Pentagon.

Ultima1 will never present any evidence to prove the landing was not from 77, or the DNA was not the Passengers. He can't prove the FDR was not from 77.

So we presented evidence serial numbers are not needed to identify an aircraft crash scene; the NTSB said so. Ultima1 said so in his post where he, by mistake, posted the NTSB saying serial numbers are not needed but he has a massive comprehension problem understanding what he posts or reads, if he actual read his posts completely.

Ultima1 was is the ultimate self debunker.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I never stated they were from a specific plane. If i had then i would find the serial numbers.


Unlike Beachnut who stated the wheel at the Pentagon was from AA778 but cannot post any information on serial numbers or any other evidence when asked.
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This is NOT what I asked, This is what I asked.

stateofgrace said:
Can you please provide serial numbers for these

http://www.yellowairplane.com/Adven...A-4_Skyhawk_Landing_Gear_Crashed_Airplane.jpg


http://media.lvrj.com/images/2808841.jpg


If not, why not?

Was the reason these planes crashed determined by the serial numbers of these parts?

Was the identity of these planes determined by the serial numbers of these parts or some other means?
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Please answer the questions and provide the serial numbers of the plane parts I have posted.I have bolded the part where you say you can provide serial numbers, please do so for the parts in the photographs.

If you cannot or unwilling to do so then please be adult enough to admit that the serial numbers of these parts are completely irrelevant in identifying the planes they came from and the reason they crashed.
 
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Jackanory said:
Roger - In lieu of the FBI or NTSB ever feeling the need to release a list of serial numbers to parts found at the scene,
have you bothered to contact Boeing to see if they can furnish you with a complete list of parts and serial numbers that make up the entire aircraft.
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I have filed a FOIA request with the NTSB to find out about serial numbers being used to verify the ID of a plane for a criminal investigation.
 
stateofgrace said:
If you cannot or unwilling to do so then please be adult enough to admit that the serial numbers of these parts are completely irrelevant in identifying the planes they came from and the reason they crashed.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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I am still waiting for the wheel at the Pentagon to be matched to AA77 as poeple on here have stated. I guess they are not adult enough to admit they are wrong.

Were the aircraft parts pictured part of a criminal investigation? If not then serial numbers my not be needed to ID the plane if it was just an accident.

I have a FOIA request filed with the NTSB to get information on serial numbers used to ID planes in a criminal investigation.
 
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BenBurch said:
And no proof it ever existed. But you can flog an FOIA for it.
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Please stop the lies. I have proof that it exist.

If you would read the posts on the thread you would have seen the documnet is being reviewed by agencies to declassify it.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Were the aircraft parts pictured part of a criminal investigation? If not then serial numbers my not be needed to ID the plane if it was just an accident.
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So if a plane crashes, they don't match serial numbers to parts? I didn't know that, so how do they determine which part of the plane caused the crash if they don't ID parts of plane?

Not being an aircraft accident investigator, I am curious about this. Are you saying that a because an aircraft crashes by accident then there is no need to match up plane parts? How do they determine the cause of the accident if they don't? There is no need to trace the history of plane parts via the serial numbers?

How do they know that it was an accident and not a criminal incident without examining the plane parts? How was it determined that the parts in the photoghraghs did not contribute to the accident?

I didn't say they IDed these planes by the serial numbers, I want you to find me the serial numbers or tell me where to find them.
 
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stateofgrace said:
So if a plane crashes, they don't match serial numbers to parts?
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ONLY if its an accident, If its a criminal investigation then more information is needed to verify the ID of the plane


I didn't know that, so how do they determine which part of the plane caused the crash if they don't ID parts of plane?
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They would once they found out what the cause of the ACCIDENT was.

Not being an aircraft accident investigator, I am curious about this. Are you saying that a because an aircraft crashes by accident then there is no need to match up plane parts?
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NO i did not say this.

I stated that serial numbers must be used to verify the ID of the plane in a criminal investigation.

I want you to find me the serial numbers or tell me where to find them.
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Best way to find the serial numbers is from the FAA.
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
ONLY if its an accident, If its a criminal investigation then more infomration is needed to verify the ID of the plane

They would once they found out what the cause of the ACCIDENT was.

NO i did not say this.

I stated that serial numbers must be used to verify the ID of the plane in a criminal investigation.
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Serial numbers must be used to ID the plane in a criminal investigation only, right?

Serial numbers of every part must be used, right?

Serial numbers are not matched to parts if it is an accident, right ?

Care to source this?
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
I have sent an FOIA request to the NTSB to get information on serial numbers needed for a criminal investigation.
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Really ? So when you said

ULTIMA1 said:
ONLY if its an accident, If its a criminal investigation then more information is needed to verify the ID of the plane


I stated that serial numbers must be used to verify the ID of the plane in a criminal investigation.
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Where did you get this information from?

Best way to find the serial numbers is from the FAA.
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Really?

So is there a reason you have not done so? What is stopping you from contacting them and asking for the serial number for the landing gear? Why keep demanding for serial numbers on an internet forum when you already know the best way to find them ?
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
Show me verifibale proof that the landing gear is from AA77.


DNA, RADAR and FDR will not be acccepted as proof.
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Fabulous stuff! Literally.


What sort of mind can produce such a sentence?

"DNA, RADAR, and FDR will not be accepted as proof."

Just fabulous.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Show me verifibale proof that the landing gear is from AA77.


DNA, RADAR and FDR will not be acccepted as proof.
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did another 757 hit the pentagon leaving its gear behind?

the landing gear on a tomahawk missile is much sma..... o wait NM lol
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I have sent an FOIA request to the NTSB to get information on serial numbers needed for a criminal investigation.
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Why did you do that since that info belongs to the FBI? Remember that the NTSB was providing the requested assistance?

IIRC, others have already tried a FOIA request from the NTSB and the answer was to contact the FBI.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Please stop the lies. I have proof that it exist.

If you would read the posts on the thread you would have seen the documnet is being reviewed by agencies to declassify it.
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Uh huh. So could the contents of a message that proved absolutely nothing whatsoever of the jetwash you try to pass off as information here. All you can prove is that you filed an FOIA. And all you will ever prove, too.
 
I promised myself I was done in this thread but now I see that ULTIMA has resorted to just making crap up. Serial numbers are only required when an air crash is not an accident? How convenient, in light of my demands for previous examples of such matching(which have been responded to by cricket chirps). The question I have of ULTIMA, is whether he actually believes this stuff that he's pulling out of thin air?

OK, ULTIMA - I'll give you a shot to prove yourself. Pan Am 103. Serial numbers. Go.
 
lapman said:
Why did you do that since that info belongs to the FBI? Remember that the NTSB was providing the requested assistance?
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Who has the expertise on aircraft parts and serial numbers, the FBI or the NTSB?

IIRC, others have already tried a FOIA request from the NTSB and the answer was to contact the FBI.
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They asked for the specific serial numbers, i asked about serial numbers being used to ID a plane in a criminal investigation.
 
BenBurch said:
Uh huh. So could the contents of a message that proved absolutely nothing whatsoever of the jetwash you try to pass off as information here. All you can prove is that you filed an FOIA. And all you will ever prove, too.
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You really are scared of anything that disagrees with what you were told happened.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
No problem. Anything else i can get for you?

http://www.montereypeninsulaairport.com/103reportcontents.html
Aircraft type: Boeing 747-121
Constructor's serial number: 19646

The serial numbers of these
containers were respectively AVE 4041 PA and AVN 7511 PA.
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What I asked for is the serial number matching report, and photos of serial numbered parts which positively IDs the plane. What you gave me is the serial number for the entire airplane and 2 cargo containers the suitcase bomb may or may not have been in. Cargo containers, unlike the FDR, are not a part of the airplane anymore than a suitcase or a golfbag.

In a word....fail.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I am getting information from the NTSB to suport this.



Why should i show you information when you and others will not show what i ask for?
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Serial numbers are irrelevant for identification of an aircraft when the aircraft is known. You would have known that if you knew what the NTSB actually said.
 
bje said:
Then please explain your inability to find out what wreckage was inside the Pentagon.
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I have been doing research but the FAA will not release serial numbers for the planes.

Also because no one can show verifiable proof that the wreakage is from AA77.
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
I have been doing research but the FAA will not release serial numbers for the planes.
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One does not need serial numbers to identify a known aircraft. You would have known this if you had paid attention to NTSB investigations and knew anything about those investigations.

Also because no one can show verifiable proof that the wreckage is from AA77.
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You have been able to ask since 9/11. Why do you refuse to ask the relevant people?
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I have been doing research but the FAA will not release serial numbers for the planes.

Also because no one can show verifiable proof that the wreakage is from AA77.
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I think you should know that willful ignorance is not considered a marketable skill.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Why can't you provide the serial numbers i have been asking for since being in this forum?
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As I understand it,it is your belief that planes are identified by serial numbers in a criminal investigation.

No one else here seems to think that that is the case(with the exception of FDRs,which you don't believe are parts of planes) so why do you demand that others provide proof for your beliefs?
 
ULTIMA1 said:
Just my education and experience.
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Which is also supported by zero evidence.
Why can't you provide the serial numbers i have been asking for since being in this forum?
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The reason is simple, the same reason you cannot provide the serial numbers for plane parts from Pam Am 103.

To date you have claimed that the serial numbers of plane parts are used to identify the planes in criminal investigations; you have failed to back this with any evidence. You have failed to show that Pam Am 103 was identified using the serial numbers from parts.

You have failed to show a single example where plane parts serial numbers are used to identify the plane in a criminal investigation. You cannot validate your demands for asking the same of Flight 77. Unless you show that it is standard practice during criminal investigations, your demands for the serial numbers from the parts of Flight 77 are completely pointless.

Posturing, gesturing and calling people liars because they ask you to validate your line of reasoning means nothing on this forum. You can demand these serial numbers all you want, kid yourself that you have scored some points but the reality is you have no point, your entire line of reasoning ( if there is any) is completely and utterly distorted. Unless you can cite a single example from anywhere that serial numbers of plane parts are used to identify planes during a criminal investigation and or back up your original claim that they are, then you are simply blowing smoke.
 
How many parts need to be found to claim an entire airliner crashed somewhere? Especially in a crash where supposedly enough human DNA remained so that all but one were identified. And do they just need to be parts of the same make of plane? For instance do you only need one engine of a plane that had two? How many engines were found out of four planes?

Some people here imply that a recovered blackbox identifies the plane. Is that all that is needed?

Have they been found at the towers and if not are those planes not identified yet?
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
How many parts need to be found to claim an entire airliner crashed somewhere? Especially in a crash where supposedly enough human DNA remained so that all but one were identified. And do they just need to be parts of the same make of plane? For instance do you only need one engine of a plane that had two? How many engines were found out of four planes?

Some people here imply that a recovered blackbox identifies the plane. Is that all that is needed?

Have they been found at the towers and if not are those planes not identified yet?
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Those 6 questions display your ignorance on the topic. Perhaps you should leave it alone.

There are many here who know more about aircraft and serial numbers than you ever will. Unfortunately you are unwilling to learn from them and would rather listen to liars in the 911TM.

You rail at others for staying here and posting, yet we all know you have been here in many other guises prior to this. That is far more pathetic than the debunkers you spew your spittle at.
 
funk de fino said:
Those 6 questions display your ignorance on the topic. Perhaps you should leave it alone.
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Perhaps you could answer even one?

funk de fino said:
There are many here who know more about aircraft and serial numbers than you ever will. Unfortunately you are unwilling to learn from them and would rather listen to liars in the 911TM.
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So what's taking them so long?

funk de fino said:
You rail at others for staying here and posting, yet we all know you have been here in many other guises prior to this. That is far more pathetic than the debunkers you spew your spittle at.
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Oh really? Care to back that conspiracy theory up?

How many parts?
 
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