Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

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jammonius

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It is claimed there are 43 known video clips of the explosion at Tower 2 or WTC2 or the South Tower.

There is a convenient youtuber that contains these 43 known versions available at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg

Looked at as a whole, the compilation that runs for <10min. provides a variety of looks, angles, and degrees of quality concerning what happened to the South Tower.

Posters and Lurkers here know me as a NO PLANER and I know that designation puts me at 6s&7s with most who post here, where it is thought that >80% of you self-identify as 9/11 debunkers and very few of you self-identify as 9/11 truthers and an even smaller percentage self-identify as NO PLANERS even if you self-identify as a truther.

This might, then, be a short thread and there might be little or no interest in pursuing it. It will be possible to post up a still image for use as a "title page" so to speak for each of the 43 versions. I would consider that a group project in which I could participate jointly with others.

We could ask, say, a group of 4 posters to each post up 10 title page stills, for instance.

The first three in the video look like this;

1
1--shadowthingy001.png


2
2--lefttorightblurry018.png


3
3--cbsexplosionnoplaneseen.png


IMHO, one can find more support for the NO PLANE claim when one considers ALL 43 as a group, with some being more consistent with the no plane claim than others. For instance, in a majority of them, it is very apparent that the explosion occurs in the "wrong" place. Basically, there is no explosion upon impact and when an explosion is seen, it is on the opposite sides of the buildings from impact, showing an internal rather than external source of explosion. Thus, the event was pyrotechnic in nature, as a NO PLANER sees it. Note that phrase: as a no planer sees it.

Almost all of you see it differently, probably. However, the drill here is to examine what the video shows. Let me repeat: The drill here is to examine what the video shows. People have the capacity to view information and say what they see and what they hear and draw conclusions from it.

It is likely those who are PLANE SPOTTERS, meaning, of course, they support the viewpoint that Flight 175, a Boeing 767 slammed into the South Tower is supported by all videos. I get that.

No planers, on the other hand, claim no such thing happened. Most people are offended by that. I get that, too.

However, let's look at what the video shows.

Oh, by the way, here's an example of what I mean when I say the explosion is in the wrong place:

217-10soundheard4.png


The above is but one example of the explosion occurring on the east face of the South Tower with nothing much occurring at the point of impact, as though the tower were made of papermache, rather than structural steel.

OK, if there's interest in discussion we can proceed.

I, personally, am not seeking here to convince anyone of anything. I hope we can look at the information and post up claims about what we see and what we hear in this video compilation, thus making this a discussion about the information and not about beliefs.
 
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wow, you put maybe an hour or two into this.

too bad it was all for nothing.
 
wow, you put maybe an hour or two into this.

too bad it was all for nothing.

Take a look at this sequence:

800-2bbcstilletto.png


800-3bbcstillettoallinexplosionbegi.png


All in and no explosion seen at point of presumed impact, yet explosion already emerging on east face.

Interesting, right?
 
That does it, I'm convinced!!!



















That Jammie is a troll. Only a troll would take 43 different views from widely varied sources showing that a plane hit a building is evidence of no plane hitting a building.
 
wow, low rez, frame rate limited videos of a 500 mph impact over a space of several 100 yards.

I am convinced also...

TAM;)
 
All in and no explosion seen at point of presumed impact, yet explosion already emerging on east face.

Interesting, right?

INTERESTING! Particularly, as you can't see the point of impact.

Great thread No Planer.
 
Here are the title segments for the next four of the 43:

4
4--stagnesschool.png


5
5--bluegoldlive.png


6
6--fatshadow131.png


7
7--shadowgroupy.png


Once again, the exercise consists in simply looking at and listening to the content of the videos. Video is, afterall, a medium conveying visual images and sound. For purposes of this exercise, the quality of the video, whether it is low or high resolution or whatever is not a determining factor in how useful the process can be.

There's no point in me not owning up to being a NO PLANER, but that is not the issue. It doesn't matter what your perspective is. The point is to look at the data and see what it can be said to reveal.
 
It is claimed there are 43 known video clips of the explosion at Tower 2 or WTC2 or the South Tower.

There is a convenient youtuber that contains these 43 known versions available at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg

Looked at as a whole, the compilation that runs for <10min. provides a variety of looks, angles, and degrees of quality concerning what happened to the South Tower.

Posters and Lurkers here know me as a NO PLANER and I know that designation puts me at 6s&7s with most who post here, where it is thought that >80% of you self-identify as 9/11 debunkers and very few of you self-identify as 9/11 truthers and an even smaller percentage self-identify as NO PLANERS even if you self-identify as a truther.

This might, then, be a short thread and there might be little or no interest in pursuing it. It will be possible to post up a still image for use as a "title page" so to speak for each of the 43 versions. I would consider that a group project in which I could participate jointly with others.

We could ask, say, a group of 4 posters to each post up 10 title page stills, for instance.

The first three in the video look like this;

1
[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43title/1--shadowthingy001.png?t=1273959849[/qimg]

2
[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43title/2--lefttorightblurry018.png?t=1273959999[/qimg]

3
[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43title/3--cbsexplosionnoplaneseen.png?t=1273960073[/qimg]

IMHO, one can find more support for the NO PLANE claim when one considers ALL 43 as a group, with some being more consistent with the no plane claim than others. For instance, in a majority of them, it is very apparent that the explosion occurs in the "wrong" place. Basically, there is no explosion upon impact and when an explosion is seen, it is on the opposite sides of the buildings from impact, showing an internal rather than external source of explosion. Thus, the event was pyrotechnic in nature, as a NO PLANER sees it. Note that phrase: as a no planer sees it.

Almost all of you see it differently, probably. However, the drill here is to examine what the video shows. Let me repeat: The drill here is to examine what the video shows. People have the capacity to view information and say what they see and what they hear and draw conclusions from it.

It is likely those who are PLANE SPOTTERS, meaning, of course, they support the viewpoint that Flight 175, a Boeing 767 slammed into the South Tower is supported by all videos. I get that.

No planers, on the other hand, claim no such thing happened. Most people are offended by that. I get that, too.

However, let's look at what the video shows.

Oh, by the way, here's an example of what I mean when I say the explosion is in the wrong place:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43posting/217-10soundheard4.png?t=1273960739[/qimg]

The above is but one example of the explosion occurring on the east face of the South Tower with nothing much occurring at the point of impact, as though the tower were made of papermache, rather than structural steel.

OK, if there's interest in discussion we can proceed.

I, personally, am not seeking here to convince anyone of anything. I hope we can look at the information and post up claims about what we see and what we hear in this video compilation, thus making this a discussion about the information and not about beliefs.
Do you think all the videos were faked??
 
oooh....copyright infringement?

maybe CNN and BBC and ABC and NY1 and CBS woud like a little email.
 
OK, here's one more, this is number 8:

8
8--bridge154.png


In the 8th one, the shadow thing streaks straight across pretty rapidly and then impacts the South Tower. This is yet another instance in which there is no explosion upon impact and when the explosion starts, it is first seen on the south side.

202mostlyinnoexplosionseen.png


202-2allinnoexplosion.png


202-3explosionformingsouthsideonly.png


Note the progression from plane visible at apparent impact; to plane being all in, so to speak; to explosion forming on south face of the tower.

All three have the same 202 time signature. Granted, the resolution is low, but you can verify this by simply looking at the video at the time frames noted; or at whatever segment is of interest to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg


Do posters and lurkers see how the process can work. It is not necessary to make declarations, only to show what the information actually reveals.

It is also possible and useful to post up statements about the sound that can be heard. In connection with the second explosion videos, it seems to me that most of them are either silent or of very poor quality when it comes to picking up the sound of the shadowy moving image.
 
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Basically, there is no explosion upon impact and when an explosion is seen, it is on the opposite sides of the buildings from impact, showing an internal rather than external source of explosion.

Yeah, I guess the concept of conservation of momentum doesn't apply to airplane fuel, just everything else in the known universe. :boggled::boggled::boggled:

Should the plane have been see to bounce too? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
9
9--swifty.png


OK, one more for tonight and it's a revealing one. In number 9 there is both intriguing, close up video as well as some sound. I don't think the sound is consistent with a jetliner, but at least the sound is consistent with other descriptions given; like, say, that of Asst. Commis. Stephen Gregory and like that heard in CMs video.

The link for what is called "CMs video" is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuIACIpon7w&feature=player_embedded#!

That video has what I think is the best sound capture of the event that I know of.

IMHO, the sound heard is neither of the type made by a Boeing 767 at full throttle, nor is it heard for a long enough time period to be said to be a jetliner and to match the video imagery.

Now, in an earlier post, I said "no" as my short answer to the question of whether I think the videos are faked. I think some of them might be, but certainly not all of them.

Among those that I think might well be faked includes the one called Chopper 5. I think some of you know that one Ace Baker has made that claim and has done so effectively.

It is easy to see that something is amiss in that video as demonstrated by the following sequence from it:

602chopper5allinnoexplosionJimFried.png


602-2noseoutnoexplosionwherecrashed.png


602-3blackoutafternoseout.png


603explosionafterblankoutafternoseo.png


The above is referred to as evidence of video fakery. I think one can see why and how that claim is made. It is basically a version of FTFY, one supposes.

Again, I don't think all the videos are fake. I think the Chopper 5 one might be.

I also suggest, however, close study of the Number 9 video. The one beginning at the 2:14 time marker in the All 43 video.

good night
 
Yeah, I guess the concept of conservation of momentum doesn't apply to airplane fuel, just everything else in the known universe. :boggled::boggled::boggled:

Should the plane have been see to bounce too? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

In this thread, would you consider being a little more forthcoming and informative in your posting? If there's something you'd like to say about the conseration of momentum as it relates to the crash and explosion video information, why not just do so and add to the substance of the thread?

Once again, I see no reason why PLANE SPOTTERS and NO PLANERS cannot discuss the video data, as data. You know my position, I know yours. No one is trying to change anyone's mind here, I don't imagine. Rather, let's assess the data.

What say you?
 
No need. If they weren't all faked, then obviously at least some were real which deep-sixes your entire no-plane theory.

Thank you for personally putting the spike into two threads with one post. :bigclap

One could just as easily make a claim that proof of 1 being a fake reveals an intentional deception that puts paid to the entire common storyline, one supposes.

Again, I am not here to engage in a food fight centering on PLANE versus NO PLANE; rather, I foresee a discussion of the videos, singly and in the aggregate. The compiled videos are, after all, a source of information. Let's take a look at them; shall we?

OK, I have to stop for now, running late.
 
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Take a look at this sequence:




All in and no explosion seen at point of presumed impact, yet explosion already emerging on east face.

Interesting, right?
That is part of the plane which was moving at 800 feet per second. You don't do reality, do you?

You are showing proof of a plane hitting the WTC and the results of the impact. You talk nonsense about an event and have no idea why jet fuel burns along the side of the building.
 
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In this thread, would you consider being a little more forthcoming and informative in your posting? If there's something you'd like to say about the conseration of momentum as it relates to the crash and explosion video information, why not just do so and add to the substance of the thread?

I'm guessing from the reactions that you're just a troll, but anyway:

A plane is not a missile with a fuse. It does not have an explosive payload which explodes all at once as soon as its nose touches the outer frame of a building.

It's a big bubble of metal with a whole lot of flammable fuel inside, going at very high speed. When it hits a building it punches its way inside, breaking up as it does so, and fuel goes everywhere. When the fuel/air mixture is right the mixture ignites, which is at some point after initial impact and at some point inside the building.

If you learned about explosions from Hollywood or from Star Wars you might expect that to cause a stationary fireball: In Star Wars a spaceship can be zipping along at who-knows-what-speed and when it gets hit with a special effect it turns into a stationary explosion right where it was hit. That's not how reality works. If a plane-load of fuel is going sideways at a few hundred kilometres per hour when it ignites it keeps going sideways at a few hundred kilometres per hour except now it's on fire.

(If it didn't work that way then flamethrowers wouldn't work, they'd just make a huge fireball centred on the poor dude trying to fire it. Flaming liquids go sideways at high velocity just fine).

The whole mess of metal parts and flaming fuel retains its momentum and a lot of it goes flying out the far side of the building. It might look to you like the fireball originated on that side but that's not quite right. It originated inside going sideways, and it just kept on going sideways past the far side of the building.
 
Useless ranting snipped>

The above is but one example of the explosion occurring on the east face of the South Tower with nothing much occurring at the point of impact, as though the tower were made of papermache, rather than structural steel.

Google the word "Momentum" and you may get your answer.
 
One could just as easily make a claim that proof of 1 being a fake reveals an intentional deception that puts paid to the entire common storyline, one supposes.
.
One could, if one were also willing to assert that since the "War of the Worlds" broadcast was faked, that Orson Welles was never born.

Or perhaps it was all done with DEW -- I'm still waiting for those specs to show it was not.
.
 
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Why is Jammonious showing us videos of the plane hitting the building to convince us that a plane did not hit the building? I find his/her mental processes hard to follow.
 
100% of no-planers are batcrap crazy.

But our jammonius is extra special. I've just been to his website. In addition to being a 9/11 truther, we see that he's also into all manner of nonsense - chemtrails, moon landings, UFO's, crop circles, etc. Yup, he's a full-on woo.

Back to the OP. There are of course more than 43 known examples of Flight 175 and a very basic search turned up this one:



Forward to one minute in and hear what Our Man in the Hat(:D) has to say. Interesting find - I wonder why nobody's mentioned him before. :rolleyes:
 
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Personally, I'm joining the chorus that says we shouldn't play with jammonius anymore. This thread sinks to a new low. :(
 
Short answer: NO.

Do you want the longer answer?
What they said....\/

No need. If they weren't all faked, then obviously at least some were real which deep-sixes your entire no-plane theory.

Thank you for personally putting the spike into two threads with one post. :bigclap

if even ONE of these videos, showing a plane crashing into the WTC is genuine, than the No-Plane Theory is dead as Lincoln.
 
...The point is to look at the data and see what it can be said to reveal.

In jammo world, with enough word salad tossing and invention of unsupported claims (lies), and especially with giving special attention to everything that is not seen, heard or said, anything can be said to be revealed from the 43 videos.


So here is my proposal. It can be said that the 43 videos reveal that pink elefants trample through dense jungles, hunting for mocking hyenas. It can also be said that the videos reveal that Lee Harvey Oswald had two identical twins shooting from holografic second and third schoold book depositories. Furthermore, it can be said that the videos reveal jammonius is a Nobel laureate in the field of fourth dimension digeridoo anaesthetics.
 
Yeah, I guess the concept of conservation of momentum doesn't apply to airplane fuel, just everything else in the known universe. :boggled::boggled::boggled:

Should the plane have been see to bounce too? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Since Jim Ryan did not see a plane on the north fassade of the North Tower, and is therefore recruited as a no-planer, jammonius apparently expects the plane to get stuck on impact like Robin Hood's arrow in the Sheriff of Nottingham's chest.
 
What a bizarre thread, I thought the "no planers" thing only applied to the Pentagon hit.

Anyways..


Yeah, I guess the concept of conservation of momentum doesn't apply to airplane fuel, just everything else in the known universe. :boggled::boggled::boggled:

What he said
 
I'm guessing from the reactions that you're just a troll, but anyway:

Well, in the above, there is at least a hint or a possibility that you are asking me to state whether or not I am a troll. That is a good sign in my opinion because it is consistent with a practice I engage in and encourage others so to do.

That practice is to ask a poster to confirm or not confirm something one suspects. I call it doublechecking for accuracy of understanding and I use that practice on a regular basis as posters here can attest, if you ask them.

So, assuming you are doublechecking for accuracy of understanding, my claim is that I am not trolling. If you look under my handle, you will see there have been a number of multi-page threads for which I provided the OP. People here routinely disagree with me, put me on ignore and, nonetheless, engage in multi-page threads, some of which attract new posters on a fairly regular basis that might be an indicator of interest in the topics.

I consider "interest in a topic" to be a good or positive indicator that the discussion is worthy. Agreement or disagreement is, of course, the nature of discussion.

A plane is not a missile with a fuse. It does not have an explosive payload which explodes all at once as soon as its nose touches the outer frame of a building.

I will put this plainly, your observation goes in the direction of making the discussion one of PLANE versus NO PLANE, however, that is not the only possible way to interpret what you've said above.

Keep in mind this from the OP:

The above is but one example of the explosion occurring on the east face of the South Tower with nothing much occurring at the point of impact, as though the tower were made of papermache, rather than structural steel.

OK, if there's interest in discussion we can proceed.

I, personally, am not seeking here to convince anyone of anything. I hope we can look at the information and post up claims about what we see and what we hear in this video compilation, thus making this a discussion about the information and not about beliefs.


In my opinion, the focus of the discussion is what is seen and heard in the video.

For instance, you did not post up a video link or segment, either by way of a still or by way of, say, a time segment from the All 43 video supporting your claim.

Would you consider doing that so that the focus remains on what the video data shows? Mind you, I am not here saying you must do this as clearly I have no right to do that. I am merely requesting you consider doing so; as, in so doing, the fcous is on the video and not on each other's "beliefs."

It's a big bubble of metal with a whole lot of flammable fuel inside, going at very high speed. When it hits a building it punches its way inside, breaking up as it does so, and fuel goes everywhere. When the fuel/air mixture is right the mixture ignites, which is at some point after initial impact and at some point inside the building.

Jet fuel is a middle distiallate fuel virtually interchangeable with plain old kerosene. It is combustible, but, technically speaking, is not flammable. There was a thread on that issue that went round and round I seem to recall with the outcome being inconclusive as to whether the word 'flammable' or the word 'combustible' applies to jet fuel.

Bottomline is that the common storyline of 9/11 mandates that a Boeing 767 that was carrying about enough jet fuel to fill an average size swimming pool crashed into the WTC at which point, most of the kereosene was used up in the initial fireball, as seen here:

840bbclongshotzoomdiscussmyowneyesd.png


The above is an example of using the video as the frame of reference for posting in this thread. Mind you, there are a number of issues associated with that fireball, so it is not necessarily indicative of a Boeing 767 for a variety of reasons. But, once again, the focus here is on what the video shows and not on PLANE versus NO PLANE claims. Although we are still on the first page, we are toward the end of it. And, it is already apparent that posters are preferring to make this a PLANE versus NO PLANE discussion, rather than a discussion of what the video shows.

Let me repeat: I know most of you support PLANE. You know I support NO PLANE. So what? I am not here seeking to convince you folks to become NO PLANERS. I am encouraging dialogue on the issue of what the ALL 43 videos show. That and nothing more or less.

Grasp that if posters and lurkers would, please.

If you learned about explosions from Hollywood or from Star Wars you might expect that to cause a stationary fireball: In Star Wars a spaceship can be zipping along at who-knows-what-speed and when it gets hit with a special effect it turns into a stationary explosion right where it was hit. That's not how reality works. If a plane-load of fuel is going sideways at a few hundred kilometres per hour when it ignites it keeps going sideways at a few hundred kilometres per hour except now it's on fire.

I'm not sure I follow your hypothetical. Could you restate it and make it clearer; better still, could you relate what you are attempting to say specifically to the South Tower, supported by a reference to the video?

(If it didn't work that way then flamethrowers wouldn't work, they'd just make a huge fireball centred on the poor dude trying to fire it. Flaming liquids go sideways at high velocity just fine).

Ditto, above comment.

The whole mess of metal parts and flaming fuel retains its momentum and a lot of it goes flying out the far side of the building. It might look to you like the fireball originated on that side but that's not quite right. It originated inside going sideways, and it just kept on going sideways past the far side of the building.

Dit...
 
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One could, if one were also willing to assert that since the "War of the Worlds" broadcast was faked, that Orson Welles was never born.

Or perhaps it was all done with DEW -- I'm still waiting for those specs to show it was not.
.

"War of the Worlds" is a very apt analogy to be considered in conjunciton with the events of 9/11, could more posters and lurkers but realize it.

That 1938 example might well be a forerunner for what 9/11 essentially was.

Thanks for your post.
 
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Have you ever considered looking at all the evidence en masse, Jammonius?
 
Google the word "Momentum" and you may get your answer.

Well, OK, I did that, but doing so did not shed much light on what is seen here. Momentum is one thing, but "impact" is another. Here we see a sequence in which a claim is made a fuel laden metal "bubble" (I think it was called) collides at great speed with a solid steel object and goes right through with neither explosion nor debris being seen:

800-2bbcstilletto.png


800-3bbcstillettoallinexplosionbegi.png


800-4bbcstillettonoseout.png


801bbcstillettonoseout.png


In the sequence seen above, it is very apparent the steel perimeter of the South Tower did not result in an explosive impact until AFTER the explosion manifested on both the east and the north face.

So, that is the context in which momentum and impact are to be discussed.

Would you like to develop this theme a bit further, based on what the video reveals?
 
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