Deeper than primes

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On the contrary, OM enables to deal with both cases of Membership, where the traditional Membership deals with complexities, and the novel aspect deals with non-composed elements that share a common property.

The novel aspect of Membership goes beyond the limitations of the traditional approach of the concept of Membership.

Here is the part that clearly shows how the traditional approach can't deal with Membership among ur-elements (which is something that OM enables to do, in addition to the standard Membership among sets):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urelemen
It only clearly shows that you misspelled the term "ur-element" and that's why Wiki reference no worky.

OM claims to posses tools that enable Man to answer the most profound question regarding the innermost property of the Universe: There is time t-zero when one of the ur-elements morphs into UR-crazy. What is the time t-zero when the unit of measurement is furlong * parsec^-2?
 
The Man said:
So how do you define your “degrees of freedom”?
An extension of a given element is another element, which shares a given concept with the given element and also has an additional property of that concept.

Degrees of freedom is the number of extensions of a given dimensional space under the concept of Dimension.

0 dimensional space has 0 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

1 dimensional space has 1 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

2 dimensional space has 2 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

3 dimensional space has 3 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

Etc ... ad infinitum ...
 
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No, OM claims to extend the universe under a given concept, where the concepts can be, for example:

Membership, Dimension, Reasoning, Locality, Number, etc ...
That's nice, Doron. Any attempt to come up with novel methods to expand our knowledge of the universe is commendable, even though complex systems may not work when applied for the first time. It just a matter of some debugging. We do it some other time, coz the atheists have been chasing me around and I gotta run. Just don't venture elsewhere. Oh, maaan... LOL.
 
epix said:
Any attempt to come up with novel methods to expand our knowledge of the universe is commendable
In this case the extension is the concept of Membership also among urelements, which is based on sharing a common concept with other urelements without being composed by them, as shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6276966&postcount=11362 under the concept of Dimension.

For example, no amount of dimensional spaces that have 1 extensions of the concept of Dimension, can be a dimensional space that has 2 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

This is a matter of Magnitude and not a matter of Multitude, and one of the results of this notion is the inability of any amount of 0 dimensional spaces to be a 1 dimensional space (or in other words, no collection of points can fully cover a line).

Also no amount of convergent magnitudes like 0.9+0.09+0.009+... = 0.999...[base 10] have the magnitude of 1 dimensional space.
 
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An extension of a given element is another element, which shares a given concept with the given element and also has an additional property of that concept.

Extension? How, to where? “another element,?” So you’re extending some element by adding some additional element or just "additional property" (which would be an additional element)? Sounds like a hair extension. However, this would go against your “non-composed” requirement.

As amusing as your ‘hair extension’ nonsense is, it still does not define your “Degrees of freedom”.

How exactly do you determine the number of your “Degrees of freedom” for some given space?

Degrees of freedom is the number of extensions of a given dimensional space under the concept of Dimension.

0 dimensional space has 0 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

Nope, it just has 0 dimension as you have already given it as being, well, “0 dimensional”. Your ‘extended’ nonsense is simply and demonstrably superfluous as usual.


1 dimensional space has 1 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

Nope, it just has 1 dimension as you have already given it as being, well, “1 dimensional”. Your ‘extended’ nonsense is simply and demonstrably superfluous as usual.

2 dimensional space has 2 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

Nope, it just has 2 dimensions as you have already given it as being, well, “2 dimensional”. Your ‘extended’ nonsense is simply and demonstrably superfluous as usual.

3 dimensional space has 3 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

Nope, it just has 3 dimensions as you have already given it as being, well, “3 dimensional”. Your ‘extended’ nonsense is simply and demonstrably superfluous as usual.

Etc ... ad infinitum ...

Etc ... ad infinitum ...


What “concept of Dimension” are you referring to now, and how exactly do you give it an ‘extension’, other than simply with your superfluous and extensive nonsense.

Evidently your “Degrees of freedom” are just the number of dimensions of some given space that you simply wish you could extend into your nonsense.
 
In this case the extension is the concept of Membership also among urelements, which is based on sharing a common concept with other urelements without being composed by them, as shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6276966&postcount=11362 under the concept of Dimension.

For example, no amount of dimensional spaces that have 1 extensions of the concept of Dimension, can be a dimensional space that has 2 extensions of the concept of Dimension.

This is a matter of Magnitude and not a matter of Multitude, and one of the results of this notion is the inability of any amount of 0 dimensional spaces to be a 1 dimensional space (or in other words, no collection of points can fully cover a line).

Again as it is your own self–imposed limitation, Doron, it is simply and entirely just your problem. Again if you think “no collection of points can fully cover a line” then identify some location on that line not covered by points. That is something you simply can not do, as in identifying that location you simply demonstrate that it can in fact and must be covered by points and by not identifying such a location your claim of “no collection of points can fully cover a line” is simply without merit. You simply do not want a line to be fully covered by a collection of points and you have invented your extended nonsense thinking it will accommodate your goal. However, as both the goal and the imposed limitations (to that end) are entirely of your own making the resulting ambiguity, lack of utility and self-contradictions of this contrivance of yours are again simply and entirely yours.

Also no amount of convergent magnitudes like 0.9+0.09+0.009+... = 0.999...[base 10] have the magnitude of 1 dimensional space.

Doron they are already 1 dimensional as line segments. Is that simply your problem, your inability to distinguish a 0 dimensional space or object like a point from a 1 dimensional space or object like a line segment?
 
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What “concept of Dimension” are you referring to now, and how exactly do you give it an ‘extension’, other than simply with your superfluous and extensive nonsense.

Evidently your “Degrees of freedom” are just the number of dimensions of some given space that you simply wish you could extend into your nonsense.
I think Doron is trying to adjust the fundamentals of Degrees of Freedom to fit OM:

FUNDAMENTAL NOTIONS

•The most basic conception of dimension is as a degree of freedom.

•A point is an object with no properties other than location.

•A space is a collection of locations.

•Spaces can be characterized by their degrees of freedom.


The concept of dimension is, in its most basic and intuitive form, the concept of measuring certain aspects of an object independently from all of its other aspects. This idea of dimension is also known as "degrees of freedom." If an object has three degrees of freedom—height, width, and length, let's say—that means that it is able to "change" in any one of those three ways, and a change in one has no effect on the other two. So, if we are navigating the streets of a city laid out on a grid system, for instance, we are free to change our east-west position or our north-south position, depending on whether we're moving along an avenue or a street. These are our two degrees of freedom. In a city whose grid system is perfectly oriented to the four cardinal directions, going north on an avenue does not affect your east-west position.

The concept lives in the abstraction realm only as necessary; this geometry was designed to be applied in the fields like robotics, for example. Mechanical systems maybe restricted in some ways -- a robotic arm has a certain degree of freedom to operate. So the task of this type of geometry is to maximize the modus operandi of mechanical objects. The math is done within 3-D, for obvious reasons. The extension to higher dimensions lacks purpose for the engineers -- unless Doron finds a killer app for it.

I think Doron works the opposite way, coz math has been almost always subordinate to the purpose of idealizing the real into a manageable form. Doron creates concepts that are "superordinate" to the real; OM seems to be subordinate to the task of understanding an artificial universe. That's a very interesting concept: a tool creates an object, and the same tool is used to understand the properties of the object.

I think Doron is on the right track to develop OM into something practical:

OM ---- development -----> OM(NISCIENCE)

God didn't create Man to his own image and likeness; it was just his intention, and he let Man to complete the task. I think someone is working on it...
:D
 
The Man said:
Your ‘extended’ nonsense is simply and demonstrably superfluous as usual.
Let us see: “0 extensions” is superfluous exactly “0 members” is superfluous in the case of the empty set.

“1 extensions” is superfluous exactly “1 members” is superfluous in the case of non-empty set.

You don’t get the generalization of these notions.

The Man said:
(which would be an additional element)?
No the man, it would be an additional property which distinguishes between at least two kinds of building-blocks, where building-blocks are called elements (element is non-composed).

The Man said:
However, this would go against your “non-composed” requirement.
Certainly not, each dimensional space that is represented by whole values is a building-block that has its own magnitude, and yet these building-blocks share the same concept (Dimension, in this case).

For example: 1 dimensional space + 1 dimensional space ≠ 2 dimensional space, because no 1 dimensional space (and you can add infinitely many 1 dimensional spaces) has the magnitude of 2 dimensional space (which is a building-block).

The Man said:
Again if you think “no collection of points can fully cover a line” then identify some location on that line not covered by points.
You actually say: “identify some location (use 0 dimensional space) on that line (on 1 dimensional space) not covered by points (not covered by 0 dimensional spaces)” .

Again, it is a matter of different magnitudes.

For example: 0 dimensional space + 0 dimensional space ≠ 1 dimensional space, because no 0 dimensional space (and you can add infinitely many 1 dimensional spaces) has the magnitude of 1 dimensional space (which is a building-block).

As a result given infinitely locations (where each location is 0 dimensional space) upon infinitely many scale levels, there is always a 1 dimensional space at AND beyond any given 0 dimensional space, because 1 dimensional space extends the magnitude of 0 dimensional spaces.
 
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The Man said:
Evidently your “Degrees of freedom” are just the number of dimensions of some given space that you simply wish you could extend into your nonsense.
“just the number of dimensions of some given space” requires magnitude X that enables more than 0 degrees of freedom for any given magnitude X w.r.t any given magnitude < magnitude X.

0 dimensional space has magnitude A.

0 dimensional space has 0 extensions of the concept of Dimension because there is at most 0 degrees of freedom of Magnitude A w.r.t Magnitude A.

1 dimensional space has magnitude B.

1 dimensional space has 1 extensions of the concept of Dimension, which is resulted by at most 1 degrees of freedom of Magnitude B w.r.t Magnitude A.

2 dimensional space has magnitude C.

2 dimensional space has 2 extensions of the concept of Dimension, which is resulted by at most 2 degrees of freedom of Magnitude B w.r.t Magnitude A.

Etc ... ad infinitum ...

a) 1 dimensional space + 1 dimensional space = 2 dimensional spaces of at most 1 degrees of freedom for each dimensional space.

b) 2 dimensional spaces of at most 1 degrees of freedom for each dimensional space ≠ 2 dimensional space that has 2 degrees of freedom.
 
The Man said:
Doron they are already 1 dimensional as line segments.
You still do not get the notion that a line segment is a composed result of dimensional spaces, which its magnitude > 0 AND < 1, and in the case of 0.999...[base 10], this intermediate dimensional space is > 0 dimensional space and < 1 dimensional space by 0.000...1[base 10], which is the inaccessibility of magnitude of 0.999...[base 10] to magnitude 1, where both 0.999...[base 10] and 0.000...1[base 10] are fogs (non-local numbers, where summation is essentially not their property).

The Man said:
Is that simply your problem, your inability to distinguish a 0 dimensional space or object like a point from a 1 dimensional space or object like a line segment?
Is that simply your problem, your inability to distinguish a 0 non-composed dimensional space (a point) from a 1 non-composed dimensional space (a line) , which are the building-blocks of a composed result like a line segment?
 
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Some correction of http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6279815&postcount=11369 last part.

Instead of:

For example: 0 dimensional space + 0 dimensional space ≠ 1 dimensional space, because no 0 dimensional space (and you can add infinitely many 1 dimensional spaces) has the magnitude of 1 dimensional space (which is a building-block).

It has to be:

For example: 0 dimensional space + 0 dimensional space ≠ 1 dimensional space, because no 0 dimensional space (and you can add infinitely many 0 dimensional spaces) has the magnitude of 1 dimensional space (which is a building-block).
 
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Asking a simple question for the fifth time:
Domain is "that is researched".

What is researched?

Define researched.
A measurable realm.
What is "a measurable realm"?
A realm where the measured and the measurer are interacted.
Since you want to play little games.

Your mom has an apple. She wants to know the weight of the apple. She places the apple on the scale. When she places the apple (the measured object) on the scale, it will give her a measurement. Who is the measurer?
Question bolded.

And don't worry. I'll do this same process with "What is interacted" too.

Here's a rhetorical question, if a domain, according to doronshadmi, is "[A] realm where the measured and the measurer are interacted [sic]", why even reply "that is researched [sic]"?
 
The Man said:
However, this would go against your “non-composed” requirement.
The Man.

There is a distinction between the magnitude of a line segment, which is a composed object with certain or uncertain length, and the magnitude of a given dimensional space (which is a non-composed element).

For example:

If we take a line as a dimensional space of magnitude 1, then along it there can be finitely or infinitely many line segments (composed objects), where their magnitudes is less than 1 because each line segment is the result of an intermediate magnitude of value > 0 AND < 1.
 
I think Doron is trying to adjust the fundamentals of Degrees of Freedom to fit OM:

Heck, why should degrees of freedom remain unscathed by the indefinite onslaught of OM? It just shows once again, as I’ve said before, that although he calls it a new paradigm for math it actually just resembles a typical ameba paradigm that simply ingests everything into some amorphous blob.

The concept lives in the abstraction realm only as necessary; this geometry was designed to be applied in the fields like robotics, for example. Mechanical systems maybe restricted in some ways -- a robotic arm has a certain degree of freedom to operate. So the task of this type of geometry is to maximize the modus operandi of mechanical objects. The math is done within 3-D, for obvious reasons. The extension to higher dimensions lacks purpose for the engineers -- unless Doron finds a killer app for it.

I think Doron works the opposite way, coz math has been almost always subordinate to the purpose of idealizing the real into a manageable form. Doron creates concepts that are "superordinate" to the real; OM seems to be subordinate to the task of understanding an artificial universe. That's a very interesting concept: a tool creates an object, and the same tool is used to understand the properties of the object.

I think Doron is on the right track to develop OM into something practical:

OM ---- development -----> OM(NISCIENCE)

God didn't create Man to his own image and likeness; it was just his intention, and he let Man to complete the task. I think someone is working on it...
:D



Hey Doron can create his own universe, God, OM or whatever in any image he wants. As I’ve said before if he would simply present it that way I doubt I would be here to debate the issue. What he does not get to do is to simply recreate well established, well defined, and useful concepts in his own ill defined, obscure, self-contradictory and useless image while pretending he understands current mathematics.
 
Heck, why should degrees of freedom remain unscathed by the indefinite onslaught of OM? It just shows once again, as I’ve said before, that although he calls it a new paradigm for math it actually just resembles a typical ameba paradigm that simply ingests everything into some amorphous blob.





Hey Doron can create his own universe, God, OM or whatever in any image he wants. As I’ve said before if he would simply present it that way I doubt I would be here to debate the issue. What he does not get to do is to simply recreate well established, well defined, and useful concepts in his own ill defined, obscure, self-contradictory and useless image while pretending he understands current mathematics.

The Man, it is clearly seen that you have no ability to get novel view of already agreed framework.

For example, you simply can't grasp the novel notion about Membership among non-composed elements, because you can't grasp the idea of shared concept among different magnitudes that are not components of each other.

As a result you can't grasp the notion of dimensional spaces as non-composed elements that have different extensions of the same concept, where each extended state is not a collection of the previews extensions.

Again, 1-D space is not a collection of 0-D spaces, because no matter how many 0-D spaces there are along it, no one of them has the extension of 1-D space.

n = 1 to ∞
k = 0 to n-1

In general, n-D space is not a collection of k-D spaces, because no matter how many k-D spaces there are, no one of them has the extension of n-D space.

You still do not get that the "trunk" level (not composed AND not non-composed) of Y form is not defined as a collection of the "branches" level.

As for the concept of Dimension, all you get is the number of different values (known as co-ordinates) that are related to 0-dimensional space w.r.t extended and non-composed states of the concept of Dimension.

By doing that you get the concept of Dimension only in terms of naturally local elements like 0-dimensional spaces, which is again a signature of your local-only reasoning that stands at the basis of any notion that is "developed" in your mind.

For example, you define a 1-D space in terms of a collection of 0-D spaces.

The Man, no direct-perception extension (whether it is infinite extrapolation or interpolation of a direct-perception) and say "bye bye" to real development.
 
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Asking a simple question for the fifth time:
How about adjusting to the circumstances by changing your nickname to "Little 10 Times?" Otherwise I don't know how to draw attention from Doron apart from pointing out slight inconsistencies in his theorems.
 
Let us see: “0 extensions” is superfluous exactly “0 members” is superfluous in the case of the empty set.

“1 extensions” is superfluous exactly “1 members” is superfluous in the case of non-empty set.

Let’s see: your “0 extensions” is superfluous in the case of the empty set having exactly, well, “0 members”.

Likewise your ““1 extensions” is superfluous in the case of a set with exactly “1 members” being, well, non-empty.

Got any more exactly superfluous comparisons you’d like to make?


You don’t get the generalization of these notions.

You still don’t get that just making up whatever (extended or otherwise) crap you want does not constitute a “generalization”.

No the man, it would be an additional property which distinguishes between at least two kinds of building-blocks, where building-blocks are called elements (element is non-composed).

In a set of the properties of your “building-blocks” those properties are elements of that set as those properties are also elements of your “building-blocks”.

Certainly not, each dimensional space that is represented by whole values is a building-block that has its own magnitude, and yet these building-blocks share the same concept (Dimension, in this case).

Again what “concept (Dimension, in this case)” are you referring to?

So your properties are not elements of your “building-blocks”?


For example: 1 dimensional space + 1 dimensional space ≠ 2 dimensional space, because no 1 dimensional space (and you can add infinitely many 1 dimensional spaces) has the magnitude of 2 dimensional space (which is a building-block).

Well of course no 1 dimensional space has two dimensions or it would be, well, 2 dimensional. However this restriction of yours that two 1 dimensional spaces do not comprise a 2 dimensional space restricts only you.

Wait, so now you can have a set of “infinitely many 1 dimensional spaces”?

You actually say: “identify some location (use 0 dimensional space) on that line (on 1 dimensional space) not covered by points (not covered by 0 dimensional spaces)” .

I actually say what I actually said. Although your attempt to paraphrase did far better this time than you usually do. However to be precise your paraphrasing should read ‘identify some location (a 0 dimensional object) on that line (in 1 dimensional space) not covered by points (not covered by 0 dimensional objects).

So have you found such an ‘uncovered’ location yet.

Again, it is a matter of different magnitudes.

No Doron it is specifically a matter of dimension. A point has none while two points defines one.

For example: 0 dimensional space + 0 dimensional space ≠ 1 dimensional space, because no 0 dimensional space (and you can add infinitely many 1 dimensional spaces) has the magnitude of 1 dimensional space (which is a building-block).

Doron, once again two points define a line segment which is one dimensional. Your simple and continued ignorance of that fact does not change that fact.


As a result given infinitely locations (where each location is 0 dimensional space) upon infinitely many scale levels, there is always a 1 dimensional space at AND beyond any given 0 dimensional space, because 1 dimensional space extends the magnitude of 0 dimensional spaces.

Again if you think a line or line segment is not completely covered by points then indentify the locations on that line or line segments you claim to be not covered by points.


“just the number of dimensions of some given space” requires magnitude X that enables more than 0 degrees of freedom for any given magnitude X w.r.t any given magnitude < magnitude X.

0 dimensional space has magnitude A.

A 0 dimensional space or object has no “magnitude” as it has no dimension.

0 dimensional space has 0 extensions of the concept of Dimension because there is at most 0 degrees of freedom of Magnitude A w.r.t Magnitude A.

“extensions”?, How and to where?

1 dimensional space has magnitude B.

1 dimensional space has 1 extensions of the concept of Dimension, which is resulted by at most 1 degrees of freedom of Magnitude B w.r.t Magnitude A.

2 dimensional space has magnitude C.

2 dimensional space has 2 extensions of the concept of Dimension, which is resulted by at most 2 degrees of freedom of Magnitude B w.r.t Magnitude A.

Etc ... ad infinitum ...

“extensions”?, How and to where?

Etc ... ad infinitum

a) 1 dimensional space + 1 dimensional space = 2 dimensional spaces of at most 1 degrees of freedom for each dimensional space.


b) 2 dimensional spaces of at most 1 degrees of freedom for each dimensional space ≠ 2 dimensional space that has 2 degrees of freedom.

Your assertion, so simply your restrictions.



You still do not get the notion that a line segment is a composed result of dimensional spaces, which its magnitude > 0 AND < 1, and in the case of 0.999...[base 10], this intermediate dimensional space is > 0 dimensional space and < 1 dimensional space by 0.000...1[base 10], which is the inaccessibility of magnitude of 0.999...[base 10] to magnitude 1, where both 0.999...[base 10] and 0.000...1[base 10] are fogs (non-local numbers, where summation is essentially not their property).


You still don’t get the notion that your fogs are deliberate and simply just yours. Still that does not change the fact that they are one dimensional as line segments.

Is that simply your problem, your inability to distinguish a 0 non-composed dimensional space (a point) from a 1 non-composed dimensional space (a line) , which are the building-blocks of a composed result like a line segment?

Nope as those are your restrictions it remains just your problem.


The Man.

There is a distinction between the magnitude of a line segment, which is a composed object with certain or uncertain length, and the magnitude of a given dimensional space (which is a non-composed element).

Doron, a line segment can be “a given dimensional space” or it can just be a object in some space with at least one dimension.



For example:

If we take a line as a dimensional space of magnitude 1, then along it there can be finitely or infinitely many line segments (composed objects), where their magnitudes is less than 1 because each line segment is the result of an intermediate magnitude of value > 0 AND < 1.

Again this deliberate ‘indeterminism’ is simply and entirely yours.

You seem to be confusing, again perhaps deliberately, the 1 dimensionality of a line and of lines segment with its length.

So now you can have a set of “infinitely many line segments”.
 
The Man, it is clearly seen that you have no ability to get novel view of already agreed framework.

Doron, deliberate ignorance and indeteminisim are not a “novel view”, certainly not on this forum anyway.

For example, you simply can't grasp the novel notion about Membership among non-composed elements, because you can't grasp the idea of shared concept among different magnitudes that are not components of each other.

Doron “non-composed elements” can’t have members, however they can still be members. So there is absolutely nothing novel about “Membership among non-composed elements”

As a result you can't grasp the notion of dimensional spaces as non-composed elements that have different extensions of the same concept, where each extended state is not a collection of the previews extensions.

Again this “notion of dimensional spaces as non-composed elements” is your self-imposed restriction, it restricts only you.

Again, 1-D space is not a collection of 0-D spaces, because no matter how many 0-D spaces there are along it, no one of them has the extension of 1-D space.

n = 1 to ∞
k = 0 to n-1

In general, n-D space is not a collection of k-D spaces, because no matter how many k-D spaces there are, no one of them has the extension of n-D space.

Again your restrictions, restrict only you and your ‘extensions’ only extend your nonsense.

You still do not get that the "trunk" level (not composed AND not non-composed) of Y form is not defined as a collection of the "branches" level.

You still don’t get that “not composed AND not non-composed” is just your usual self-contradictory nonsense.


As for the concept of Dimension, all you get is the number of different values (known as co-ordinates) that are related to 0-dimensional space w.r.t extended and non-composed states of the concept of Dimension.

Again what “concept of Dimension” are you referring to?

By doing that you get the concept of Dimension only in terms of naturally local elements like 0-dimensional spaces, which is again a signature of your local-only reasoning that stands at the basis of any notion that is "developed" in your mind.

Again stop trying to simply posit some aspect of your own failed reasoning onto others.

For example, you define a 1-D space in terms of a collection of 0-D spaces.

Or as a collection of “1-D” object as any two of those “0-D” objects defines a “1-D” object

The Man, no direct-perception extension (whether it is infinite extrapolation or interpolation of a direct-perception) and say "bye bye" to real development.

Care to try putting that into English, please.

Looks like “extension” is your new catch word of the month.
 
Again, 1-D space is not a collection of 0-D spaces, because no matter how many 0-D spaces there are along it, no one of them has the extension of 1-D space.
That's the issue that the Standard Model has been struggling with, namely the issue of an absence/presence relation.

We usually symbolize an object with one character, and that created the problem that even the top physicist couldn't solve. But if you chose the right representation for an object that allows a consequent definition, which is particular to a solution, you can come up with a viable theory. Here is an example:

A point can be symbolized either by the '.' (dot) or by number 0, coz a point is a 0-dimensional object, right? But that's wrong in the case of the Standard Model, which couldn't come up with a scenario describing how some particles acquired their mass. You use BOTH symbols. Here is a collection of points represented by 0:

00000000000000000000

This collection of points (0-D objects) formed a line, which is a 1-D object.

{00000000000000000000} = 1 dimension

Now set 0= dimension and absence and no mass and 1= dimension and presence and mass and ask yourself this question: How the {} acquired its mass when the elements have 0 mass; where does the 1-D come from?

There is no way to answer it, if the line has been rendered (defined) the way it was. The trick is to render it by using BOTH symbols -- zero and the dot respectively:

{0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0} = 1-D, mass is present

But the difference can hardly account for the {} becoming a 1-D object, or a set with a mass. But if you redefine the dot to stand for the symbol that is often used as a multiplication operator, you are getting closer to the solution.

That can be hardly so, coz multiplication of zeroes always yields 0 not 1. But since some particles do have mass -- that's a fact -- that 1 also clues an additional presence in the set. But what presence?

The mysterious, unseen object must have such a characteristic that enables the {} to acquire 1-D (the mass). Here is a theoretical possibility:

h^0 . h^0 . h^0 . h^0 . h^0 . h^0 . h^0 . h^0 = 1 [if h>0]

That object 'h^' stands for Higgs boson -- a theoretical particle that is responsible for creating an object property called "mass."

That's the concept Peter Higgs used to prop up the Standard Model. Of course, he wasn't thinking points and lines in particular.

The media often set Higgs boson = God's particle. From that, we can infer the true name of God, which is actually a formula that solves any problem you can imagine.

Wow! Let's go to the church -- some nice, 5-D one.
Hey, ONEANDONEISTWO! Are you there...somewhere...behind that 4-D altar?
:D
 
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The Man said:
... as any two of those “0-D” objects defines a “1-D” object
No, 1-D object is actually a composition of 1-D magnitude AND 0-D magnitude, such that the magnitude of the composed object < magnitude of a 1-D element, which is non-composed.

Let us get the concept of Dimension by using the following representation:

D( 0(), 1(x), 2(x,y) , 3(x,y,z) , 4(x,y,z,w), ...)

The concept of Dimension extends any given dimensional space of certain magnitude and certain degrees of freedom.

In other words, its existence is independent of any particular magnitude or any amount of degrees of freedom.

D() extended existence is equivalent to the notion of {} extended existence, and according to this generalized notion both of them extend the existence or absence of any members, and as a result they are not defined by them.

“No Dimension” is the absence of D() (where D() represents the extended existence of the concept of Dimension), exactly as “No Set” is the absence of {} (where {} represents the extended existence of the concept of Set).

“0 dimensional space” is one of the existing magnitudes under D(), and it is notated as 0(), where 0() has 0 degrees of freedom, notated as 0().

“1 dimensional space” is one of the existing magnitudes under D(), and it is notated as 1(), where 1() has 1 degrees of freedom, notated as 1(x).

Be aware of the notion that 0() or 1() existence extend the existence or absence of any members, so 0() or 1() are not defined by them.

The degrees of freedom are placeholders that have the magnitude of 0() (“0 dimensional space” ), and these placeholders are known as (co-)ordinates.

So what we get is this:

First we have the concept of Dimension that its existence extends any dimensional space, and this notion is notated as D() .

Then we have the dimensional spaces that their existence extend any degrees of freedom, and this notion is notated as
D( 0(), 1(), 2() , 3() , 4(), ...) .

Then we have the existence of the degrees of freedom (where each degree of freedom is a placeholder of an element that has the magnitude of existence of 0() (“0 dimensional space”)), and this notion is notated as D( 0(), 1(x), 2(x,y) , 3(x,y,z) , 4(x,y,z,w), ...) .

Standard Math talks about definitions, where OM talks about the magnitudes of existence.
 
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Sixth time asking a simple question:
Domain is "that is researched".
What is researched?

Define researched.
A measurable realm.
What is "a measurable realm"?
A realm where the measured and the measurer are interacted.
Since you want to play little games.

Your mom has an apple. She wants to know the weight of the apple. She places the apple on the scale. When she places the apple (the measured object) on the scale, it will give her a measurement. Who is the measurer?

Avoidance noted. I ask a simple question of who/what is the measurer and it's something that you can't answer.

Edit: Why does it matter who asked the question?

Still can't answer simple questions there doronshadmi?

Edit: You just said "Standard Math talks about definitions, where OM talks about the magnitudes of existence." Yes, that is totally correct. OM is not standard math. You've called it novel (like unique), but I can call it novel (like a book) since you can't even produce a clear definition of words like local/non-local, and currently I'm trying to get you to define domain so we can clear up your definition of local/non-local. Remember that? Here's your definitions so far:
From post 11001:
If A belongs XOR ~belongs w.r.t B, then A is Local w.r.t B
If A belongs NXOR ~belongs w.r.t B, then A is Non-local w.r.t B.
Which get expanded to
Post 11012:
1) If A belongs NXOR ~belongs w.r.t B is True, then A is Non-local w.r.t B
2) If A belongs XOR ~belongs w.r.t B is True, then A is Local w.r.t B
I posted that your definitions can even be expanded to this:
Post 11017:
1) If the result of A sharing a given domain NXOR not sharing a given domain with regard to B is TRUE, then A is non-local with regard to B.

2) If the result of A is sharing a given domain XOR not is sharing a given domain with regard to B is TRUE, then A is local with regard to B.
Then we started working on your definition of the word domain. (See top of this message)
 
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The concept of Dimension extends any given dimensional space of certain magnitude and certain degrees of freedom.
Any concept is dependent on the nature of the problem to be solved. The problem needs to be well-described. Then, a conceptual solution follows. The exact solution depends on the definition of the terms that enter the solution. You are trying to force a pile of definitions on, well, 0-D problem -- something that doesn't exist. You think that "An Introduction to the Theory of Something" is some rigorous formalization of a subject that has never asked a question to be answered -- a real problem to be solved.

You can have a 2-degree of freedom space with 3-D points in it:


battleship.gif



The red points are little spheres that move simultaneously and randomly along the 2-D grid that restricts their movement, which is orthogonal. Each second, they all change their position by one unit on the coordinates. The question is, for example, what is the probability p that the first collision between two or more spheres takes place exactly between 20 and 25 seconds?

Why would anyone think of the points as 0-D objects when the description of the problem calls for 3-D objects, like spheres, especially when the dimensionality of the points doesn't enter the solution of the particular problem?

The dimension of the space where the action takes place is what really matters when the same problem is extended to the cube grid, then to the 4-D grid, 5-D grid and so on. (Do I know the solution? I don't have the slightest idea -- the problem just occurred to me.)

Your latest scribble resembles a reading from "The Book of Doron," Chapter 0, Verse 1 -- a brief introduction to the conduct of behavior for the deceased within the realm of multidimensional Heavens of Alpha Centauri.

Get a problem first, Doron.
 
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No, 1-D object is actually a composition of 1-D magnitude AND 0-D magnitude, such that the magnitude of the composed object < magnitude of a 1-D element, which is non-composed.

Again your assertion, your problem.

Exactly what “magnitude” are you referring to?

Let us get the concept of Dimension by using the following representation:

D( 0(), 1(x), 2(x,y) , 3(x,y,z) , 4(x,y,z,w), ...)

How about you just explain your “concept of Dimension” clearly and concisely without the nonsensical “representation:”?

The concept of Dimension extends any given dimensional space of certain magnitude and certain degrees of freedom.

So now your “concept of Dimension extends” while before it was an “extensions of the concept of Dimension”? Seems you have switched the ‘extendee’ to the ‘extendor‘.

In other words, its existence is independent of any particular magnitude or any amount of degrees of freedom.

“In other words”, nonsense.

D() extended existence is equivalent to the notion of {} extended existence, and according to this generalized notion both of them extend the existence or absence of any members, and as a result they are not defined by them.

Once again the empty set is specifically defined by its lack of members just as a point is specifically defined by its lack of dimension.


“No Dimension” is the absence of D() (where D() represents the extended existence of the concept of Dimension), exactly as “No Set” is the absence of {} (where {} represents the extended existence of the concept of Set).

Once again we see that all your are extending with your ‘extensions’ is your nonsense.

“0 dimensional space” is one of the existing magnitudes under D(), and it is notated as 0(), where 0() has 0 degrees of freedom, notated as 0().

“1 dimensional space” is one of the existing magnitudes under D(), and it is notated as 1(), where 1() has 1 degrees of freedom, notated as 1(x).

Be aware of the notion that 0() or 1() existence extend the existence or absence of any members, so 0() or 1() are not defined by them.

The degrees of freedom are placeholders that have the magnitude of 0() (“0 dimensional space” ), and these placeholders are known as (co-)ordinates.

So what we get is this:

So from your proceeding nonsense you get the following nonsense.

First we have the concept of Dimension that its existence extends any dimensional space, and this notion is notated as D() .

So your “concept of Dimension” “extends any dimensional space”? You do understand that a “dimensional space” is based on the concept of, well, dimension, don’t you? So your “dimensional space” just comes up short and thus your need to ‘extend’ that “dimensional space” with your “concept of Dimension” that was an aspect of that space already?

Have you been watching too much late night TV with “smilling bob”? As you seem to have a preoccupation with “extending” everything lately.


Then we have the dimensional spaces that their existence extend any degrees of freedom, and this notion is notated as
D( 0(), 1(), 2() , 3() , 4(), ...) .

No you already had “the dimensional spaces” once you had “the concept of Dimension”, Oh wait that’s right you don’t actually have a concept of dimension just some fantasy “extension”.


Then we have the existence of the degrees of freedom (where each degree of freedom is a placeholder of an element that has the magnitude of existence of 0() (“0 dimensional space”)), and this notion is notated as D( 0(), 1(x), 2(x,y) , 3(x,y,z) , 4(x,y,z,w), ...) .

Note it however you want as your “notation” is simply a “placeholder” for your extended nonsense.

Hey wait that nonsense “notation” looks familiar

Let us get the concept of Dimension by using the following representation:

D( 0(), 1(x), 2(x,y) , 3(x,y,z) , 4(x,y,z,w), ...)

Yep it just your “concept of Dimension” nonsense “notation” recycled for your “degrees of freedom”.



Standard Math talks about definitions, where OM talks about the magnitudes of existence.

It has long been understood that you and OM certainly don’t like talking about definitions.

I must say Doron as wacky as your assertions get you never fail to take it up a notch. This new “extension” trend of yours certainly sets a new bar and I think it’s going to be a ,well, extended period before you can top it.
 
Religion and philosophy section?

I am lost or this thread is lost?

:confused:


Not to worry SnakeTongue, it’s just Doron that’s lost, but evidently he likes his “fog”. The thread in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology section was closed because Doron just couldn’t keep his philosophical musings out of it.

Anyway, welcome to the thread and the forum.
 
It has long been understood that you and OM certainly don’t like talking about definitions.
It has long been understood that you and Traditional Math certainly don’t like talking about the existence of the universe that enables definitions.

The principle of extension is fundamental to any given concept, for example, the concept of Set:

This concept extends members or their absence, or in other words, it is not identical with members or their absence.

This notion is expressed by the outer "{" "}" whether the this concept has or does not have members.

Furthermore, Russell's paradox does not hold, because there is a difference between a concept as a member and a concept as an extension which is beyond the existence or absence of members.
 
The Man said:
You do understand that a “dimensional space” is based on the concept of, well, dimension,

You do understand that since D() extends 0(), 1(), 2() ... etc., then it is used as their common concept (or in your language: "a “dimensional space”" (for example 0(), 1(), 2(), ... etc.) "is based on the concept of, well, dimension," ( it is based on D() ).
 
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Not to worry SnakeTongue, it’s just Doron that’s lost, but evidently he likes his “fog”. The thread in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology section was closed because Doron just couldn’t keep his philosophical musings out of it.

Anyway, welcome to the thread and the forum.

Thank you.

I am just trying to understand anything in this thread, but my mind cannot process any information about...

It is Doron trying to create a new science, like "Psycho-history" from Isaac Asimov famous trilogy?
 
Yes, doronshadmi is trying to create something, but I wouldn't call it science. The problems that he has are that he can't explain clearly how it works, what it is, what good is it, or how to use it. He keeps introducing new terms without defining them, drops old terms that he hasn't defined, use extra words when just one or two will do, and give us proper definitions. He'll use words that already have a standard definition, and use them in his own way.

With me, he has taken about 10 pages to define something. It's mainly because he won't answer me. I've had to ask the same question about seven times.

If I remember correctly, he's even killed a thread that had nothing to do with his "idea".
 
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Yes, doronshadmi is trying to create something, but I wouldn't call it science. The problems that he has are that he can't explain clearly how it works, what it is, what good is it, or how to use it. He keeps introducing new terms without defining them, drops old terms that he hasn't defined, use extra words when just one or two will do, and give us proper definitions. He'll use words that already have a standard definition, and use them in his own way.

With me, he has taken about 10 pages to define something. It's mainly because he won't answer me. I've had to ask the same question about seven times.

If I remember correctly, he's even killed a thread that had nothing to do with his "idea".
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6271554&postcount=11336
 

Wow!

:jaw-dropp

This is very interesting.

Of course I am not a scientist in the fields of numbers, so I cannot say what I saw in the content of the first link is right with the present models of our age.

My impression is really of a new model.

I sense that you are trying to develop a different concept to use numbers.

Strange to say, but that picture of the homo sapiens with where the monkey at right side saying "Fellows, when the door of the bank are open?" made me think in a whole new model of how to use numbers.

Damn banks! They machines control every digit in the large scale system which was design to limit our individual financial power.

This binary system of debit and credit will not last forever... The comprehension of numbers must change, to a more complex level.

I understand, Doron, that your are proposing a new model to interpret the use of the numbers in the most important aspects of our contemporary (or perhaps future) demands.

I cannot just understand very well the mathematics concepts. I am better with words.

So I like the way you propose those changes together with ethics. This old knowledge from the ancient Greeks is not in use as should be.

I will give a time to digest the content and maker further comments.

In mean time, I wish good will in your quest.
 
Type theory "avoids Russell's paradox by first creating a hierarchy of types, then assigning each mathematical (and possibly other) entity to a type. Objects of a given type are built exclusively from objects of preceding types (those lower in the hierarchy), thus preventing loops." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_theory ).

OM does it by distinguish between the magnitude of existence of a given concept and the magnitude of existence of that concept as one of the members of that concept.

For example the magnitude of existence of the concept of dimension, notated as D(), extends the magnitude of existence of that concept as a one of the members of that concept, notated as D(D()).
 
And how does that answer the following questions that I am asking for the SEVENTHtime:

Domain is "that is researched".
What is researched?

Define researched.
A measurable realm.
What is "a measurable realm"?
A realm where the measured and the measurer are interacted.
{responding to "Who asks the questions? Who is that whishes to know the "interacted" definition (or any other definition)?" in post 11299}
Anyways, I want to know. Paranoid? You keep using unique definitions of words, like domain.
I ask. When your mother places an apple on a scale to determine the apple's weight, who/what is the measurer? Is it your mother or the scale?

Avoidance noted. I ask a simple question of who/what is the measurer and it's something that you can't answer.

Edit: Why does it matter who asked the question?
Please note that not only did I answer your "Who is asking" but questioned why you want to know twice. Why does it matter who asks "Who/what is the measurer"?
 
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