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Caustic Logic · 11th February 2011, 02:21 AM

Alright, so I'm considering the interline passengers and what should have passed through the shed of that name under Bedford's watch.

I should have thought, on a plane load of nearly 250 passengers, there would be quite a few passengers interlining to 103 at Heathrow. I'd think the maybe eight bags Bedord reported were only the last few, with another container or two filled earlier.

But the way Bedford describes it, it sounds like this one container 4041 was being loaded for hours before he knocked off at 5:00. So any earlier container, depending on the schedule that day, almost had to be for an earlier flight.

But only eight or so suitcases? That should only cover the four famous Larnaca passengers. But from the two books, it seems most likely that only three cases between them should have been in that tin, leaving the rest of the items to be from others.

The citations for that:
- Dan O'Connor had the one suitcase, held back for unknown reasons nd never loaded. It was reported by Emerson and Duffy (p 71-72) as arriving at JFK in New York days later, but Leppard says this was a widely-reported error, and it never left Heathrow. (p 118) It was a brown American Tourister, but that's irrelevant - it was not among those Bedford placed.

Emerson and Duffy p 78 – “O’Connor had only the one bag, McKee had two, Gannon and LaRivierre none.” That would give us only two cases in the tin. But Leppard again differs and with enough detail I'm going with his take, he says from the Air Cyprus manifest:

Quote:

“Gannon had checked in one bag, a blue soft-sided Samsonite, which had been identified after photographs of it were shown to his widow. RARDE had confirmed it was blast-damaged.” [116]

So we have three. Gannon's one and McKee's two: these were both grey, one had-sided Samsonite (the one cut open and its contents swapped out, says David Johnston and also Thomas Hayes) and the other an American Tourister (no further detail). "Ownership of both had been positively confirmed by documents removed from inside them" [Leppard 115-116] by the Scottish police, one presumes. In fact, Leppard says Johnston says the plans he was shown, by a "Lockerbie detective" from inside McKee's case included a map of a building, with Xs marked, like a plan to storm the embassy and free hostages. Which leaves one wondering what the case-cutters removed if his name and mission plans were still there for the cops to find and show journalists.

Anyway... That confirms that Barry Walker was correct to sum up

Quote:

The luggage of these four men was recovered. None had a bronze or maroon hardsided Samsonite

Dealing with legit luggage in the area Bedford might have seen it, that accounts for about half the small number of items aside from the two he percieved as inserted later. There's really very little space to hide in the legitimate baggage flow for these outsiders, is there? It wasn't the bomb, they're so sure, but it wasn't passenger luggage. So it didn't belong there legitimately, a trait shared with the bomb bag. That's a lot of shared traits by now.

Lurkers! Any comments from the sidelines?

Some other tidbits I just found:
Emerson and Duffy on blast height:

Quote:

"Further checking in Longtown, however, showed that the bomb must have been eighteen to twentyfour inches from the floor of the container. That was too high for interline bags…" [p 163]

Leppard, p 119

Quote:

"It would take months to discover that the [sic] bag belonging to Major Charles McKee [...] had been resting on the bottom of AVE4041. McKee's was one of seven or eight which had been interlined onto Pan Am 103 from airports other than Frankfurt."

Leppard 119

Quote:

"Suitcases belonging to the young American women, Karen Noonan and Patricia Coyle were on the third level, resting directly above the bomb bag."

Rolfe, what was it you found out again? There was some confusion about who owned the heavy camera case vs. the blue American Tourister that became so relevant for being immediately beneath the bomb? Doesn't this statement cover that case one way or another? Leppard doesn't make these things up - people tell him about them, usually. (tho I'm wondering just how sly he really is - so many odd little hints like this pop out of his excessive-for-most detail - it's a worthy purchase, guys!)

11th February 2011, 02:21 AM	#378
Caustic Logic Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,494	Alright, so I'm considering the interline passengers and what should have passed through the shed of that name under Bedford's watch. I should have thought, on a plane load of nearly 250 passengers, there would be quite a few passengers interlining to 103 at Heathrow. I'd think the maybe eight bags Bedord reported were only the last few, with another container or two filled earlier. But the way Bedford describes it, it sounds like this one container 4041 was being loaded for hours before he knocked off at 5:00. So any earlier container, depending on the schedule that day, almost had to be for an earlier flight. But only eight or so suitcases? That should only cover the four famous Larnaca passengers. But from the two books, it seems most likely that only three cases between them should have been in that tin, leaving the rest of the items to be from others. The citations for that: - Dan O'Connor had the one suitcase, held back for unknown reasons nd never loaded. It was reported by Emerson and Duffy (p 71-72) as arriving at JFK in New York days later, but Leppard says this was a widely-reported error, and it never left Heathrow. (p 118) It was a brown American Tourister, but that's irrelevant - it was not among those Bedford placed. Emerson and Duffy p 78 – “O’Connor had only the one bag, McKee had two, Gannon and LaRivierre none.” That would give us only two cases in the tin. But Leppard again differs and with enough detail I'm going with his take, he says from the Air Cyprus manifest: Quote: “Gannon had checked in one bag, a blue soft-sided Samsonite, which had been identified after photographs of it were shown to his widow. RARDE had confirmed it was blast-damaged.” [116] So we have three. Gannon's one and McKee's two: these were both grey, one had-sided Samsonite (the one cut open and its contents swapped out, says David Johnston and also Thomas Hayes) and the other an American Tourister (no further detail). "Ownership of both had been positively confirmed by documents removed from inside them" [Leppard 115-116] by the Scottish police, one presumes. In fact, Leppard says Johnston says the plans he was shown, by a "Lockerbie detective" from inside McKee's case included a map of a building, with Xs marked, like a plan to storm the embassy and free hostages. Which leaves one wondering what the case-cutters removed if his name and mission plans were still there for the cops to find and show journalists. Anyway... That confirms that Barry Walker was correct to sum up Quote: The luggage of these four men was recovered. None had a bronze or maroon hardsided Samsonite Dealing with legit luggage in the area Bedford might have seen it, that accounts for about half the small number of items aside from the two he percieved as inserted later. There's really very little space to hide in the legitimate baggage flow for these outsiders, is there? It wasn't the bomb, they're so sure, but it wasn't passenger luggage. So it didn't belong there legitimately, a trait shared with the bomb bag. That's a lot of shared traits by now. Lurkers! Any comments from the sidelines? Some other tidbits I just found: Emerson and Duffy on blast height: Quote: "Further checking in Longtown, however, showed that the bomb must have been eighteen to twentyfour inches from the floor of the container. That was too high for interline bags…" [p 163] Leppard, p 119 Quote: "It would take months to discover that the [sic] bag belonging to Major Charles McKee [...] had been resting on the bottom of AVE4041. McKee's was one of seven or eight which had been interlined onto Pan Am 103 from airports other than Frankfurt." Leppard 119 Quote: "Suitcases belonging to the young American women, Karen Noonan and Patricia Coyle were on the third level, resting directly above the bomb bag." Rolfe, what was it you found out again? There was some confusion about who owned the heavy camera case vs. the blue American Tourister that became so relevant for being immediately beneath the bomb? Doesn't this statement cover that case one way or another? Leppard doesn't make these things up - people tell him about them, usually. (tho I'm wondering just how sly he really is - so many odd little hints like this pop out of his excessive-for-most detail - it's a worthy purchase, guys!)