Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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headscratcher4 said:
The state, apparently, acceeded to the WH request that it make an exception. Like Antpogo, I'm not happy about this, it sets a dangerous precident. Suggesting both a level of Presidential power, as well as undercuts the State's authority over its own records. In particular, it suggest that the official state "certified" COLB all ready released is, somehow, less than official or less than certified or less than honest -- which it certainly is not.

Having said that, I'm glad it is out for what ever purpose it serves. It will, as said above, change nothing.

Also, watch for the turn of the spin...i.e. BAC et al will now start claiming, among other things, that the president purposefully strung this out, that the new release is an abvious fake, that it is an unconstitutional and unconscionable assertion of Presidential authority that puts all of our privacy rights at risk, etc.
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great points +1, im outraged
 
headscratcher4 said:
The state, apparently, acceeded to the WH request that it make an exception. Like Antpogo, I'm not happy about this, it sets a dangerous precident. Suggesting both a level of Presidential power (that I would think that Judas and BAC should abhore and they certainly won't applaud it even though they've claimed that it could be done this way), as well as undercuts the State's authority over its own records. In particular, it suggest that the official state "certified" COLB all ready released is, somehow, less than official or less than certified or less than honest -- which it certainly is not.
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Exactly. I wish Obama hadn't done this, as it sets a whole host of bad precedents.

Even worse, it will do no good whatsoever - on Free Republic, for instance, they're already declaring it a forgery.
 
most birthers wouldn't change their minds if they were somehow transported back in time to 1961 and were there in the delivery room in Hawaii when Obama was born. It's the nature of the conspiracy theorist beast.
 
Sabrina said:
So I see that thus far, dvictr is ....
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That poster is obviously doing parody. It's performance art. No need to lump him/her in with any particular cause. He/she was going to produce a documentary on how the Chilean mining thing was faked, but "they" stole his film footage.
 
ANTPogo said:
Exactly. I wish Obama hadn't done this, as it sets a whole host of bad precedents.

Even worse, it will do no good whatsoever - on Free Republic, for instance, they're already declaring it a forgery.
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I suppose it will further seperate "birthers" from the "mainstream"... clarifying their flight from reality, their inability to understand little less live with facts, and, of course, underscore the inherent racism of their arguments...but I fear that possible issolation is a heavy price to pay for the undermining of the laws that has just occured here.

I suppose the calculus that the State made here was that the exception could only stand to prove that the so-called "short form" -- i.e. the Certified COLB issued by the state -- really does only reflect pertinent information and that there is nothing hidden by the state in the certified form it now issues. Again, I think they're wrong, but clearly, there is nothing on either form that is inconsistent with each other...or that shows any more than the information released on the state certified form: ie. HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII when he said he was, exactly as he said he was, exactly as the state has certified he was.

It will change nothing...as the fraud artists who have perpetrated the fraud of Kenyan birth certificates, etc. will now use their expertise (as Antpogo suggests and links to above) to prove the State is now perpetrating a fraud. The crazy will now move from State is hiding something to the State is actively helping the Administration to commit a fraud. The state and Obama are in Cahoots to undermine the Constituion.
 
headscratcher4 said:
I suppose it will further seperate "birthers" from the "mainstream"... clarifying their flight from reality, their inability to understand little less live with facts, and, of course, underscore the inherent racism of their arguments...but I fear that possible issolation is a heavy price to pay for the undermining of the laws that has just occured here.

I suppose the calculus that the State made here was that the exception could only stand to prove that the so-called "short form" -- i.e. the Certified COLB issued by the state -- really does only reflect pertinent information and that there is nothing hidden by the state in the certified form it now issues. Again, I think they're wrong, but clearly, there is nothing on either form that is inconsistent with each other...or that shows any more than the information released on the state certified form: ie. HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII when he said he was, exactly as he said he was, exactly as the state has certified he was.

It will change nothing...as the fraud artists who have perpetrated the fraud of Kenyan birth certificates, etc. will now use their expertise (as Antpogo suggests and links to above) to prove the State is now perpetrating a fraud. The crazy will now move from State is hiding something to the State is actively helping the Administration to commit a fraud. The state and Obama are in Cahoots to undermine the Constituion.
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yeah, the State of Israel

Mossad working with the CIA under the guidance of the CFR had to pull all strings to get a good puppet in office and its a matter of national security that weapons contracts continue to be funded and the millions of ounces of Gold continue to be stolen out of the United States.
 
Just listened to the President's statement on this.

Like ANTPogo, headscratcher, and others, I rather wish the President had not done this; it does set a bad precedent and could be argued that it is an abuse of power (despite the unusual circumstances behind the request) by those who still dislike the President. That being said, I have to applaud what Obama said.

He basically stated that this is and should be a non-issue, when we have serious economic problems facing this country. Last week, when the focus of the country should have been on how to deal with rising gas prices and how to deal with the ongoing recession, instead every news outlet was focusing on the blow-hard Trump going on and on and on about issues he didn't even show any understanding of, including the President's birth. That is extremely stupid. The President said he realizes that this will not quiet a certain segment of the population, that it won't be enough for them, but that he merely wanted to get attention away from, as he said, "sideshows and carnival barkers" (a not-so-subtle dig at Trump's grandstanding) and back onto the issues we SHOULD be focused on. In that respect, I wholeheartedly and completely agree with the President.

This is a non-issue. The President was born in Hawaii on August 4th, 1961. He is a natural-born American citizen, and as such is fully eligible to be President of the United States of America. I suggest, if at all possible, that this thread be closed and any subsequent threads on the topic be summarily deleted. The question has been answered. There is no more to be said. End of discussion.
 
When I got in the shower this morning, Trump was proclaiming how proud he was that he had played a major role in getting the "real" certificate released and how now we could move on to talking about important issues like jobs and oil. When I got out of the shower, he was talking about how Obama should release some college record or other to show us how he got into Harvard. /headslap :boggled:
 
ANTPogo said:
Exactly. I wish Obama hadn't done this, as it sets a whole host of bad precedents.

Even worse, it will do no good whatsoever - on Free Republic, for instance, they're already declaring it a forgery.
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It undermines Donald Trump's ability to get the GOP nomination, however. Now that the document has been released there won't be as much support for a man who's only selling point was challenging Obama's natural-born status.

It also grants legitimacy to a fairly large sub-set of birthers. Some of the birthers won't believe this, but a bunch will.
 
It actually occurs to me that this is a very subtle WH political manouver. By releasing now...and letting Trump crow that he has done something that no one else was able to do (force the WH to get the orginal COLB released) it, in the short term builds Trump up...especially among a slect number of activist crazies. Trump is an nearly impossible candidate. His positions are all over the place. His command of facts is limited. His business and political history will ultimately be unpalatable for the GOP... so building him up now, helping him be the front runner, makes the president's re-election bid, in theory at least, that much stronger.

If I were the President, I'd want to run against Trump.
 
ANTPogo said:
... Obama has made an end-run around the laws of the state of Hawaii, just to satisfy doubters like you...
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The actual correspondence regarding the release of the certificate is available on the White House web site. The state director of health states that she has the legal authority to make exceptions to the established policy for good reason. No "end run" here.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-correspondence.pdf

The White House announcement:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

What strikes me about the announcement is the exceptionally simple language, obviously drafted with its audience in mind.
 
It's amazing watching the true believers flail and scramble to continue to try and justify in the face of contradictory evidence.

I wandered over to foxnews.com and the first comment I see on the story about the release:

It's a Certificate of birth... Not a Birth Certificate which has the seal, mothers finger print and baby's feet prints... Certificate of birth, easily forged... Birth Certificate, cannot be forged...I hope they do a chemical analysis on the paper.
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Alareth said:
It's amazing watching the true believers flail and scramble to continue to try and justify in the face of contradictory evidence.

I wandered over to foxnews.com and the first comment I see on the story about the release:
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Jebas H. Cripes.

If that were true, my original birth certificate wouldn't be legitimate.

Granted, I was born in Ohio, not Hawaii, but neither my mother's fingerprint nor my footprint are on my birth certificate.

Besides, how does that person account for the other birth certificates from around the same time that have been posted online that don't have either of those things on them?
 
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I likewise am not happy with this decision to release. This is pure pandering to the nutcase crowd, and it will not slow the Birthers one tiny bit in their psychosis. $10 says BAC's first words on this thread when he comes back are something along the lines of 'I can't believe you liars were taken in by this...'.
 
kookbreaker said:
I likewise am not happy with this decision to release. This is pure pandering to the nutcase crowd, and it will not slow the Birthers one tiny bit in their psychosis. $10 says BAC's first words on this thread when he comes back are something along the lines of 'I can't believe you liars were taken in by this...'.
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Nah, it'll be "what else is Obama H...I...D...I...N...G? :D"
 
Of course, it means that Obama's step Grand Mother is a liar... so he comes from a family of liars, ergo you can't trust anything he says.... ;)
 
dvictr said:
i can totally picture some clerk at the warehouse of the original hardcopy filling depository drolling at the idea of an invitation to a white house dinner or free cruise if they just let Mr. CIA insert "missing" document into stashed away box.. someone was paid off for this..

its an elaborate hoax and it looks like the CIA and CFR has finally filled all the public holes.. I want to examine the security tapes for the past 11 years at the physical warehouse.

edit.. whats the new here? has a "new" document been released?
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Prove it. Remember the Bush/Rather flap several years ago? Faked documents are pretty hard to do, even on plain white paper.

So prove.
 
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