Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Arus808 said:
we never stated that he couldn't. Just that in NORMAL PROCEDURES, following the LAW, he would have to COMPEL Hawaii to do so. THEY NORMALLY will NOT issue a long form copy and will not certify it. He Under law, could go to the DOH and see his certificate in person.

I don't know why you birthers have a hard time in understanding this.
and just like we have stated all along, it would have to take a request via LEGAL means to do so.

We have an issue where:
1) Obama legally asked his representative lawyers to request a copy of the Long form

2) We have a state that is inundated with 1000's of phone calls to the DOH that requests information about his COLB, and more than likey so tired of the BS surrounding it, just caved in and provided it to him after the legal request was made.

in a time when Hawaii is seeing one of its worst budget crisis in years, where state works are forced to take furlough days so the state will not go broke, and workers still have to field questions for 3 years about Obama's birth certificate, enough comes enough. That legal request by his lawyers, is more than enough of a request to give them permission to send him a copy of his long form.

It shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Only the bigots, ignorants and racists have made it an issue
Click to expand...
Wrong, ANT and some others emphatically stated he couldn't; that it was IMPOSSIBLE.

They were wrong as any thinking person knew at the ime.
 
BenBurch said:
Not Certified.
Click to expand...

Indeed...and this is no small point... the document the WH and the State of Hawaii produced today would not be good for obtaining a passport, a security briefing or use in a court case where place of birth and citizenship were attempting to be established. It might be evidence of place of birth, but not dispositive as the "certified COLB" issued previously by the state and released by Obama during the campaign is prima facia evidence that he was born in the state and completely dispositive of that matter.

This is a legal side-show with little meaning and less merit that undermines not only the authority of the State of Hawaii but the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution.

Good job birthers!
 
Arus808 said:
And I'll repost my post from the CNN/AC360 interview:

Not in the transcript or the article, but in the full episode; Gary Tuchman further clarified on the FOIA -

1) A person could file for an FOIA request to see and get copies of the long form
2) it will take weeks to get those copies
3) ONLY 1 person has done that, since April 2010 - a self proclaimed "birther" filed an FOIA request, becaue he wanted to see what was on his COLB.
4) said copies will not be certified by the state .since they no longer certify the long form. ONLY the computer generated ones that are currently issued today


So all this requesting for the long form will actually do no good. Because it won't be certified by the STate of Hawaii, it would serve no purpose as to say that its a "genuine" copy. And birthers will just use the 'its not official cause Hawaii will not certify it" bull crap.
Click to expand...
So you were wrong. The copy is certified. Says right there on it, just as I said they could do.
 
headscratcher4 said:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...te_should_say_negro_not_african.php?ref=fpblg
Surprise, surprise...Orly's not buying it...

Funny, the woman who promoted the obviously fake Kenyan birth certificate...has problems with this one.
Click to expand...


all because she thinks that they wouldn't use "African" as a race. It should have been "Negro" or "Black" in her eyes.

NEWS ORLY: IN AFRICA, they do not REFER TO THEMSELVES AS NEGRO. that was an AMERICAN term


And according to the CENSUS from Africa (in 1962), many Kenyans would call themselves AFRICAN

http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/CensusForms/Africa/ke1962ef_kenya_enumeration_forms.en.pdf

Column 5. Race ---- Write European, Arab, Somali or African etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.
 
headscratcher4 said:
You need not fear...just wait...there was never any chance that this would satisfy BAC or any of them.... the WND cites will soon be posted with great furry and bombast.
Click to expand...
Spindrift said:
Evidence and logic hasn't stopped them before. Something like this surely isn't going to sway the die-hards.
Click to expand...

I can only hope…

randman said:
As far as his father, that argument has been around since the beginning and has merit. But it would need to be settled in the courts.
Wonder why it took Obama so long....
Click to expand...

See it’s just not the same.. :(
 
ANTPogo said:
No, he can't obtain a certified copy of his long-form birth certificate. No one can.

That's why all the Hawaii state officials, Democrat and Republican alike, say that no one can. That's why the DHHL website says the state doesn't issue them any more. That's why the request form for certificate copies has no option for "long-form" on it and hasn't since at least 2004. That's why the legions of Hawaiian-born tea party birthers haven't been able to get copies. That's why Miki Booth can't get copies for her husband and son.
Click to expand...
Hmm....but if no one can as you insist, how do you explain the certified copy just released?
 
randman said:
So you were wrong. The copy is certified. Says right there on it, just as I said they could do.
Click to expand...

actually, if you look at his long form ,its missing the STATE EMBOSSED SEAL (something that the State Departments, says a legally certified copy of a birth records needs). So, legally its not really a certified document (that can be used for all legal purposes). It just certified by Alvin Onaka, but its not a legally certified document
 
headscratcher4 said:
Indeed...and this is no small point... the document the WH and the State of Hawaii produced today would not be good for obtaining a passport, a security briefing or use in a court case where place of birth and citizenship were attempting to be established. It might be evidence of place of birth, but not dispositive as the "certified COLB" issued previously by the state and released by Obama during the campaign is prima facia evidence that he was born in the state and completely dispositive of that matter.

This is a legal side-show with little meaning and less merit that undermines not only the authority of the State of Hawaii but the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution.

Good job birthers!
Click to expand...
It is certified. Just look and see the stamp for yourself. All Obama had to do was request it. There was never any legit reason he could not. You guys were just wrong.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf
 
Arus808 said:
actually, if you look at his long form ,its missing the STATE EMBOSSED SEAL (something that the State Departments, says a legally certified copy of a birth records needs). So, legally its not really a certified document (that can be used for all legal purposes). It just certified by Alvin Onaka, but its not a legally certified document
Click to expand...
It is certified and can be used for legal purposes. Whether it counts for passports or not is not the issue. Some certified short-forms are not accepted, for example. Go the passport page by the government and they explicitly say that.
 
randman said:
So you were wrong. The copy is certified. Says right there on it, just as I said they could do.
Click to expand...

He's not wrong...it is a copy. It is not a certified copy. What was released today is not a certified birth certificate... it is an underlying document that would not be credited as dispositive proof or prima facia evidence of birth in a court of law, a passport application, a national security clearance, etc.

This is, and has always been, the objection to its "release"... it is a meaningless document that once had some authority, but whose authority has been updated and subordinated to the legal, "certified" certificate of live birth issued and approved by the state.

Why is this point so hard for you to understand?

Let's put it another way, you may have your first drivers licence, but when you're stopped by police you'd best be using a legal, up-to-date, certified drivers licence. Showing that officer an expired or out of date licence will like land you in trouble.
 
randman said:
Wrong, ANT and some others emphatically stated he couldn't; that it was IMPOSSIBLE.

They were wrong as any thinking person knew at the ime.
Click to expand...

If this was the case (and I really don't think anyone said IMPOSSIBLE, just that standard legal channels did not allow for it), so what? Are you justing trying for any desperate pwnage you can get?

In the early days of 9/11 nuttery debunking, the assumptions of the collapse method was a 'pancake collapse' as discussed by the FEMA report. It turns out that collapse method was feasible, but wrong, as NIST would show. But us being wrong about the pancake collapse did not in any way shape or form make the crazies right about 9/11 demolition or other nonsense.

You just lost the game badly, even though you got exactly what you asked for.
 
randman said:
Hmm....but if no one can as you insist, how do you explain the certified copy just released?
Click to expand...
The difference is this:
It is not a certified certificate of live birth. That by legal definition is what Obama submitted years ago.

This latest document is a certified copy of a document in the state's possession. Just like any other document, they certified that is it a legitimate copy of the document in the state's possession, that and only that. They do not certified that it can be used for proof of birth. For that you need the document that Obama submitted years ago.

So do you now believe Obama is a natural-born US citizen and eligible to be President of the USA?
 
kookbreaker said:
If this was the case (and I really don't think anyone said IMPOSSIBLE, just that standard legal channels did not allow for it), so what? Are you justing trying for any desperate pwnage you can get?

In the early days of 9/11 nuttery debunking, the assumptions of the collapse method was a 'pancake collapse' as discussed by the FEMA report. It turns out that collapse method was feasible, but wrong, as NIST would show. But us being wrong about the pancake collapse did not in any way shape or form make the crazies right about 9/11 demolition or other nonsense.

You just lost the game badly, even though you got exactly what you asked for.
Click to expand...
She definitely said it was "impossible" and repeated that silliness a number of times. Of course, it wasn't. All he had to do was request it.

And no, I won this game if we were calling it that. He could have, should have, and finally did respond to the reasonable request to produce his long-form birth certificate.
 
randman said:
Wrong, ANT and some others emphatically stated he couldn't; that it was IMPOSSIBLE.
Click to expand...

As any thinking person would know, when we said it was impossible, we of course meant that the laws and/or policies of Hawaii didn't allow it.

Which was true. Hawaii's Director of Health, however, took it upon herself to waive the usual policies, and give him a copy of the original certificate, because he's the freakin' President of the United States and he asked real nicely.

For you or me, it would be way more impossible than it was for Obama.
 
randman said:
It is certified. Just look and see the stamp for yourself. All Obama had to do was request it. There was never any legit reason he could not. You guys were just wrong.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf
Click to expand...

The very fact that the Hawaiian Sec. of State made an "exception" proves that he could not simply request the document be released. THE STATE MADE AN EXCEPTION. Exception: generally defined as not conforming to the rule. Obama asked the state to do something it never does. So, the request might be "simple" but the actual deed is far more complex and complicated than that...it is what makes it an exception.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom