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Clear evidence that 9/11 was an inside job

If everything is right (scale wise) in the Integrated Consultants, Inc. video (I am sure that most of us have seen it before) then all of this measuring of lines on pictures is is not really needed. I do find it interesting none the less.

Video below. Go to 1:45 in.



As I mentioned upthread, and as I have mentioned elsewhere, I use Solidworks in my job, and I've downloaded and checked Mike Wilson's models. Everything is accurate, except the height of the Pentagon is off by a few feet, and some of the roof details are simplified. I suspect that he didn't bother getting the building roof exactly right because it's not relevant to the simulation.
 
I've downloaded and checked Mike Wilson's models. Everything is accurate, except the height of the Pentagon is off by a few feet, and some of the roof details are simplified. I suspect that he didn't bother getting the building roof exactly right because it's not relevant to the simulation.

Ditto.I downloaded and verified his models as well a few years ago. I also converted them to a format that could be imported into Maya so that I could use them as guides for my Maya simulations. Modeled my own Pentagon using the PBPF specs for reasons you noted above. The simulation was also reproduced by Pierre, the graphic artist who did the 3D work for the CIT boy's first production.
 
On my screen, D-C is 47mm, and D-B is 62mm. Depending on which of the two is 100%, the difference is either 32% or 24%
Easy. 62 times 100 divided by 47 equals 131.9 which means the difference is roughly 32 percent.
Like I said, depends on whether you set the long or the short line as 100%

Only one of them is the right one. We have to figure out which one it is.

If you draw a line 62mm long and then mark the spot where it's 47mm long, the space between the 47mm mark and the 62mm mark is 24% of the whole line. If we use the figure of 32%, it changes the measurments; the 47mm mark is inaccurate; it has to be changed to 43mm for the numbers to add up. Therefore, the 24% figure is the one that has to be used here.

In my full page blow-up DB is 58mm and DC is 42mm so the percentage by which we should increase the length of the craft behind the box is 27.6%; the other figure of 38% is not the one to use here as shown above.

your assertion that A-C = A-D is incorrect
You are right about this. I did make a careless mistake. I simply made a perpendicular line from D to the wall. In order to get the point on the Pentagon wall that's as far from the camera as the plane was in this photo,...
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

...we have to measure the distance between D and A in the photo provided (post #214) and measure the same distance to the wall.

In my full page blow-up of the photo the section between where the protruding wall ends and the far end of the Pentagon is 43mm. The spot that's as far from the camera as the plane is 13mm from the corner where the protruding wall ends using the above method to measure it.

In my full page blow-up of this picture...
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

...the height of the Pentagon at that spot is about 16mm so the craft would have to be 32mm to be a 757. The space between the left side of the box and the tail is 20mm. 20mm increased by 27.6% is 25.52mm which is too short to be a 757. That's only the maximum possible length as we can't see where the front of the craft is as it's behind the box. It may be considerably shorter than this.

This analysis is valid.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

Here's one possibility of what the craft might have been.
http://membres.multimania.fr/applemacintosh2/Pentagon2.htm

All the other evidence points to a smaller craft coming in at an angle as the witnesses put the 757 further to the left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGvXVzdlcQk
(8 parts)

http://www.thepentacon.com/eyeofthestorm.htm

The stuff in the above two links takes a while to watch but it's important so I hope everybody is able to watch it.

I suggest you draw a complete image, so we know what you are measuring.
I told you I still haven't learned how to post images and I don't know anyone who can show me and I don't have time to take a computer class right now. I don't see why the viewers can't use the picture in post #214.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7192030&postcount=214
 
All the other evidence points to a smaller craft coming in at an angle as the witnesses put the 757 further to the left.

No it doesn,t. Your analysis is flawed for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that the angular distance will equate to corresponding linear equivilant only if objects ar at the same distance from the camera. And that is not true in your analysis.

If you use actual 3D reconstruction (as a number of us have done and pointed out to you) EVERY objective data point is consistent with a 757.
 
I told you I still haven't learned how to post images and I don't know anyone who can show me and I don't have time to take a computer class right now. I don't see why the viewers can't use the picture in post #214.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=214

photobucket. Free and easy. http://photobucket.com/login

It even gives you a one-click process to copy the url of your file with a variety of tags. is the one to use to post images in a thread. Like this:

[IMG]http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ApolloGnomon/IMG_5073.jpg

is the url

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ApolloGnomon/IMG_5073.jpg

plus the tags
around it.

I suspect an error condition between the headphones is the real problem with your inability to post images.
 
Easy. 62 times 100 divided by 47 equals 131.9 which means the difference is roughly 32 percent.
Like I said, depends on whether you set the long or the short line as 100%
Only one of them is the right one. We have to figure out which one it is.

No. Neither one is wrong, both are correct, you just have to remember which side you set to be 100%, the long or the short one, and be consistent in the rest of your analysis.
It is basically an arbitrary choice.
See, when you make US$1000 per month, and your wife makes US$ 1500 per month, her income is 50% higher than yours, and yours is 33% lower than hers. Correct? Both numbers are correct. In the former case, you set your income to 100%, in the latter you treat her income as 100%.

If you draw a line 62mm long and then mark the spot where it's 47mm long, the space between the 47mm mark and the 62mm mark is 24% of the whole line. If we use the figure of 32%, it changes the measurments; the 47mm mark is inaccurate; it has to be changed to 43mm for the numbers to add up. Therefore, the 24% figure is the one that has to be used here.

See above. 24% of the long side, 32% of the short line. It's arbitrary, just be consistent.

In my full page blow-up DB is 58mm and DC is 42mm so the percentage by which we should increase the length of the craft behind the box is 27.6%; the other figure of 38% is not the one to use here as shown above.

Incorrect. For apparent length of the craft you need to measure distances from the camera, not some lines at an angle to a sight line from A.

You are right about this. I did make a careless mistake. I simply made a perpendicular line from D to the wall. In order to get the point on the Pentagon wall that's as far from the camera as the plane was in this photo,...
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

...we have to measure the distance between D and A in the photo provided (post #214) and measure the same distance to the wall.

In my full page blow-up of the photo the section between where the protruding wall ends and the far end of the Pentagon is 43mm. The spot that's as far from the camera as the plane is 13mm from the corner where the protruding wall ends using the above method to measure it.

In my full page blow-up of this picture...
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

...the height of the Pentagon at that spot is about 16mm so the craft would have to be 32mm to be a 757. The space between the left side of the box and the tail is 20mm. 20mm increased by 27.6% is 25.52mm which is too short to be a 757. That's only the maximum possible length as we can't see where the front of the craft is as it's behind the box. It may be considerably shorter than this.

At this point an image would help, because I think you make a grave mistake here: That spot on the wall you want to measure can't be determined on the photo. it is somewhere in the photo, but has no obvious marking, and I can't see how you locate it. But maybe I misunderstand you, and an image would help.


I am not going to analyse this page, but their result is wrong, so there must be at least one mistake in their work. It would be better of you did the work yourself.

Here's one possibility of what the craft might have been.
http://membres.multimania.fr/applemacintosh2/Pentagon2.htm

All the other evidence points to a smaller craft coming in at an angle as the witnesses put the 757 further to the left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGvXVzdlcQk
(8 parts)

http://www.thepentacon.com/eyeofthestorm.htm

The stuff in the above two links takes a while to watch but it's important so I hope everybody is able to watch it.

Incorrect. The other evidence points to an American Airlines 757: The clipped poles, the damage path outside and inside the Pentagon, many witnesses reporting seeing an AA passenger plane, American Airlines missing a 757 in the Pentagon (and one 767 in the WTC, and none other), debris of a 757 found in the Pentagon, DNA traces of all passengers who boarded a particular 757 in Dulles, etc.
Only some of the witnesses can be misconstrued by laboured quote-mining to indicate a different path and different plane.

I told you I still haven't learned how to post images and I don't know anyone who can show me and I don't have time to take a computer class right now. I don't see why the viewers can't use the picture in post #214.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7192030&postcount=214

When you compose a post here, look to the right: There are 3 by 6 smileys, and below that two links "Pick" and "Quick Upload". use the "Quick upload" feature.
The size limits for upload images are, if I recall correctly, 500kB file size and long edge 700 pixels.
 
I told you I still haven't learned how to post images and I don't know anyone who can show me and I don't have time to take a computer class right now. I don't see why the viewers can't use the picture in post #214.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7192030&postcount=214

When you get to a spot where you want to insert a pic, use this button.
insert.jpg

A box will pop up, paste the direct link to the image, and hit "OK".

Makes it nice and simple. Also use the "preview" function to make sure you got it right before posting it.

I like imageshack for hosting myself.
 
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Oh my, now we'll confuse him with multiple ways to do a simple job, and numerical criteria for the images.

Prepare for another linkbarf post in retaliation.
 
Fat Freddy,

Have you watched "All the President's Men" yet. There's a really good reason you should. This movie shows what it actually takes (admittedly dramatized) to bust a conspiracy. It's really hard and requires discipline and lots of work. If you can't see what you're doing in that movie, your work just isn't good enough.
 
No it doesn,t. Your analysis is flawed for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that the angular distance will equate to corresponding linear equivilant only if objects ar at the same distance from the camera. And that is not true in your analysis.

If you use actual 3D reconstruction (as a number of us have done and pointed out to you) EVERY objective data point is consistent with a 757.
Why don't you use 3D reconstruction and show us then?

No. Neither one is wrong, both are correct, you just have to remember which side you set to be 100%, the long or the short one, and be consistent in the rest of your analysis.
It is basically an arbitrary choice.
You just destroyed your credibility.

This analysis is valid.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not going to analyse this page, but their result is wrong, so there must be at least one mistake in their work.

If you maintain it's wrong, you have to show why. You'd get laughed out of the debating hall for this response. Can any of you pro-official version people analyze it?

It would be better of you did the work yourself.
I did the work myself and I showed it to be valid. You're just playing dumb about it.

The other evidence points to an American Airlines 757: The clipped poles, the damage path outside and inside the Pentagon, many witnesses reporting seeing an AA passenger plane, American Airlines missing a 757 in the Pentagon (and one 767 in the WTC, and none other), debris of a 757 found in the Pentagon, DNA traces of all passengers who boarded a particular 757 in Dulles, etc.
Only some of the witnesses can be misconstrued by laboured quote-mining to indicate a different path and different plane.
You didn't comment on the way the taxi driver changed his story and then denied the obvious evidence that he was where he first said he was.
http://www.thepentacon.com/eyeofthestorm.htm

There are plausible scenarios that would explain the poles, the witnesses, the DNA and the plane parts so they aren't conclusive proof.

The crash site is consistent with a smaller plane which fired a missile just before impact.
http://www.physics911.net/missingwings
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/ArticlesMeyer3March2006.html

The nose of the craft was obviously that of a fighter-type craft.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

The smoke that can be seen at the right of the picture is consistent with a missile being fired.
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

Here's a plausible scenario that would explain the light poles.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=9632

Witnesses can be planted.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10632
http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/witnesses.html#Steve Patterson

Plane parts can be planted before and after the crash.

This is about the fourth time I've posted this info about what may have happened to the passengers. In this link there's a documentary entitled "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

In the last five minutes of part one a possible explanation of what happened to the passengers is put forth.

Here it is on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkyEDIxTk

Start watching it at about the 42:15 time mark.

The evidence shows that flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon. We aren't in a position to know exactly what the government did with the passengers but our not knowing doesn't make the evidence go away. This is pretty basic.

There seem to be a lot of people who just believe what they want to be the truth and disregard the evidence. It is pretty horrible so I can understand why some people go into denial. Here's a video I suggest they watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKxOiUVQ3gE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WtT0FZ7NAY
 
Why don't you use 3D reconstruction and show us then?

Expect BCR to do something you never do: Respond positively by providing the evidence you demand.

In that case, I predict that you will ignore or handwave that evidence.

You just destroyed your credibility.

*yawn*
You don't understand 7th-grade arithmetic.

If you maintain it's wrong, you have to show why. You'd get laughed out of the debating hall for this response. Can any of you pro-official version people analyze it?

Yes, I can/could do it, but it was a moving of goal posts on your part to introduce someone else's calculation when you hadn't even finished showing your own calculation (you know, one accompanied by a nice image with lines drawn and points labelled, so we know what the heck you are talking about). Once we finish your work, I'll be happy to move on to the next goal post, for example that page that you linked to. I am not going to chase your moving goal posts, however.

I did the work myself and I showed it to be valid. You're just playing dumb about it.

You didn't even show it, period. You feigned inability to upload an image, I claim you are even unable to draw an image.

You didn't comment on the way the taxi driver changed his story and then denied the obvious evidence that he was where he first said he was.
http://www.thepentacon.com/eyeofthestorm.htm

Because you moved the goal post to off-topic territory in order to avoid being shown how your geometry of the security cam photo, Pentagon and plane was faulty.

There are plausible scenarios that would explain the poles, the witnesses, the DNA and the plane parts so they aren't conclusive proof.

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

The crash site is consistent with a smaller plane which fired a missile just before impact.
http://www.physics911.net/missingwings
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/ArticlesMeyer3March2006.html

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

The nose of the craft was obviously that of a fighter-type craft.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

The smoke that can be seen at the right of the picture is consistent with a missile being fired.
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

Here's a plausible scenario that would explain the light poles.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=9632

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?


Yes, although you have no evidence that they were. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

Plane parts can be planted before and after the crash.

Yes, although you have no evidence that they were. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

This is about the fourth time I've posted this info about what may have happened to the passengers. In this link there's a documentary entitled "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

It's not my problem if you try to move the goal post to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

In the last five minutes of part one a possible explanation of what happened to the passengers is put forth.

Here it is on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkyEDIxTk

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

Start watching it at about the 42:15 time mark.

I won't, because that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

The evidence shows that flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon. We aren't in a position to know exactly what the government did with the passengers but our not knowing doesn't make the evidence go away. This is pretty basic.

No. But that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?

There seem to be a lot of people who just believe what they want to be the truth and disregard the evidence. It is pretty horrible so I can understand why some people go into denial. Here's a video I suggest they watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKxOiUVQ3gE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WtT0FZ7NAY

I won't, because that, too, is a goal post moved to off-topic territory. Let's stick with the security cam, okay?



So FatFreddy, please draw us an image which enables you to explain and us to understand what you measured. Then we can debate if your math and conclusions are faulty. Or rather, why they are faulty.
 
Expect BCR to do something you never do: Respond positively by providing the evidence you demand.

There is no need to, it has already been linked by others. I'm not going to waste time creating a pretty little YouTube when one already exists. The source files are available for anyone to verify and recreate.

 
There seem to be a lot of people who just believe what they want to be the truth and disregard the evidence. It is pretty horrible so I can understand why some people go into denial. Here's a video I suggest they watch.

No sir, people have been posting evidence. You have been posting YouTube videos. Links to web pages and videos are not evidence, just unsubstantiated opinion. I just re-posted the link to an engineering reconstruction of the Pentagon event w/757. Source files are included with the reconstruction for replication by others. The 3D software used for the reconstruction is engineering software, not cartoon making stuff like Pilots for Twoof uses.
 
Do all the rest of you pro-official version posters agree with Oystein when he says these things?
On my screen, D-C is 47mm, and D-B is 62mm. Depending on which of the two is 100%, the difference is either 32% or 24%
Easy. 62 times 100 divided by 47 equals 131.9 which means the difference is roughly 32 percent.
Like I said, depends on whether you set the long or the short line as 100%
No. Neither one is wrong, both are correct, you just have to remember which side you set to be 100%, the long or the short one, and be consistent in the rest of your analysis.
It is basically an arbitrary choice.
See, when you make US$1000 per month, and your wife makes US$ 1500 per month, her income is 50% higher than yours, and yours is 33% lower than hers. Correct? Both numbers are correct. In the former case, you set your income to 100%, in the latter you treat her income as 100%.
 
The crash site is consistent with a smaller plane which fired a missile just before impact.
http://www.physics911.net/missingwings
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/ArticlesMeyer3March2006.html

Bull feathers. No missile or planted explosive device in the world is capable of cutting holes sideways in a pattern that matches the dihedral of a pai of aircraft wings. The morons who use the illustration in the Physics 911 page have the wings flat and paralllel with the ground when every witness says that the plane was amneuvering, mostly saying it was in a left bank. What sort of worthless drongo, then, shows the wings flat? But then, I guess, if they did show it banking, they couldn't shriek about how the window directly above the impact point should have broken.

And that Michael Myers from "Scholars" for 911 Truth is one stup[id sack of crap, and not fit to seek employment as a mechanical engineer. Blithering moron thinks that there were six concrete walls on the path to the punch-out hole and that the punch-out was through a reinforced concrete wall. He absolutely must have either 20/400 vision, uncorrectible, in both eyes or an IQ around the proper temperature for a walk-in refrigerator. It is masonry, small limestone blocks. There is no way that that hole was made by explosives. None. No soldier with the slightest knowledge of demolitions, no construction worker with an IQ higher than that of a bonobo is going to buy idot boy Mike's assessment of that hole. He's a total drongo.

The nose of the craft was obviously that of a fighter-type craft.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

You mean that pointed white shape? TOO FREAKING BIG. It is a trail of smoke from a damaged wing or engine.

The smoke that can be seen at the right of the picture is consistent with a missile being fired.
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm

More kujima. It is consistant with a smoke trail being swirled about in the vortex under a very large aircraft wing. It curls and swirls. Rocket exhaust would be either a smooth cone or would show annuli. FAIL.


Staging the light poles is too complex an operation to be carried out by people who will remain silent after they see their country ruined like Weasel Boy has done to us. Killklown can't even see the clear airplane shape of the Shanksville crash site. He's a lunatic.

This is about the fourth time I've posted this info about what may have happened to the passengers. In this link there's a documentary entitled "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

In the last five minutes of part one a possible explanation of what happened to the passengers is put forth.

Here it is on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkyEDIxTk

The last thiung I am going to do is take the advice of some troll who uses the number "88" as part of his screen name and go visit some site showing videos produced by a known enemy of humanity.

If Schweinefuerher Hufschmid says it, I shall summarily dismiss it as howash until Thom Hartmann and five clergyment from diffewerent congregations and mosques present their credentials and assure me that the low-life thug has for once is his worthless life reported an actual objective fact.

(aint holding my breath that long.)
 
Do all the rest of you pro-official version posters agree with Oystein when he says these things?
On my screen, D-C is 47mm, and D-B is 62mm. Depending on which of the two is 100%, the difference is either 32% or 24%
Easy. 62 times 100 divided by 47 equals 131.9 which means the difference is roughly 32 percent.
Like I said, depends on whether you set the long or the short line as 100%
No. Neither one is wrong, both are correct, you just have to remember which side you set to be 100%, the long or the short one, and be consistent in the rest of your analysis.
It is basically an arbitrary choice.
See, when you make US$1000 per month, and your wife makes US$ 1500 per month, her income is 50% higher than yours, and yours is 33% lower than hers. Correct? Both numbers are correct. In the former case, you set your income to 100%, in the latter you treat her income as 100%.

Since no-one here except me can put a ruler to my screen, no one can agree or dispute that I measured 47mm and 62mm. However, everybody can look at the image from which I took those measurements, and reproduce it on their own screen, because I, in contrast to you, showed my work on an easy to understand image:

In that image (click on it to enlarge), the distance from D to C is 47mm, and from D to B is 62mm - on my screen.

But everybody here can compute that 62mm is (62-47)/47 = 31,91% larger than 47mm (arbitrarily setting the short line, or 47mm, as 100%) while 47 is (62-47)/62 = 24.19% shorter than 62mm (arbitrarily setting the long line, or 62mm, as 100%)
This is about 7th grade stuff.


To make it easier for you:
Suppose you make US$ 47,000 a year. Now you go to your boss and demand a pay raise, you want a raise of 32%. Your boss agrees. What will he pay you next year? Let's see... US$ 47,000 * (100%+32%) = US$ 62040 (and we'll round that to 62K).
A year later, there is a bad recession and your boss talks to you and says: Hey Freddy, You got a raise of 32% last year, I can't pay that much any more. Can we agree to a cut of 24%? You agree, thinking you will still be better off than initially, right? So your boss will pay you this much a year later: US$ 62,000 * (100%-24%) = US$ 47,120 (and we'll round that to 47K).
Surprised?
 
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But everybody here can compute that 62mm is (62-47)/47 = 31,91% larger than 47mm (arbitrarily setting the short line, or 47mm, as 100%) while 47 is (62-47)/62 = 24.19% shorter than 62mm (arbitrarily setting the long line, or 62mm, as 100%)
This is about 7th grade stuff.


To make it easier for you:
Suppose you make US$ 47,000 a year. Now you go to your boss and demand a pay raise, you want a raise of 32%. Your boss agrees. What will he pay you next year? Let's see... US$ 47,000 * (100%+32%) = US$ 62040 (and we'll round that to 62K).
A year later, there is a bad recession and your boss talks to you and says: Hey Freddy, You got a raise of 32% last year, I can't pay that much any more. Can we agree to a cut of 24%? You agree, thinking you will still be better off than initially, right? So your boss will pay you this much a year later: US$ 62,000 * (100%-24%) = US$ 47,120 (and we'll round that to 47K).
Surprised?
You can tap dance around all you want but you can't hid the fact that you said that either percentage would be correct.

This is what you said in post #233.
Easy. 62 times 100 divided by 47 equals 131.9 which means the difference is roughly 32 percent.
Like I said, depends on whether you set the long or the short line as 100%
The percentage that we use in a case such as this is the percentage that reflects the area in question.

This is my reply from post #243.
If you draw a line 62mm long and then mark the spot where it's 47mm long, the space between the 47mm mark and the 62mm mark is 24% of the whole line. If we use the figure of 32%, it changes the measurments; the 47mm mark is inaccurate; it has to be changed to 43mm for the numbers to add up. Therefore, the 24% figure is the one that has to be used here.

I want to hear the opinions of all the pro-official version posters here. Do you all agree with Olstein?
 

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