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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Problem being that many of them view the similarity in testimonies as evidence that there has been collaboration amongst said witnesses to fabricate the story.

Damn, I feel dirty after having written that.

It's the CT "Win/Win." If there are even minor discrepancies in people's recounting of long past events = hoax. If there are no discrepancies = hoax.
 
Treblinka wouldn't work as it is described because it is impossible to bring two million people at the same time to a camp that is on 20 x 25 feet and then feed them to crocodiles over a twelve hour period. That's 4,000 people per square foot at the start of the operation. Crowding would be alleviated through the process of feeding 166,666 people to the crocodiles every hour (or 2,777 every minute or 46 every second) but there's no space for the crocodiles at the start of the operation. So that's why Treblinka wouldn't work.
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But all of those crocodiles were right to lifers, whom you explicitly excluded from discussion.

Try again -- maybe something with a little relevance and based in the real world this time?
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<<irrelevant sniveling whining snipped>>

You have yet to actually offer a source who agrees with your crap about "impossibility".

Do you think I'm going to reference a source who says this crap is impossible? I've never seen a mainstream historian who said this is impossible. If you're not going to settle for anything less than a respected mainstream historian who agrees with me about impossibility, I won't be able to satisfy you. The best I can do is show that what a respected mainstream historian says happened is impossible.


I know of no one who does agree, so you'll have to do your own work.

No one who agrees with me or none who agree with each other?

Of course, this is all based on your assumption that Arad is unacceptable.

So you do accept Arad?


What, exactly, does Arad have to say about this "impossibility" you made up?

He is silent on this issue. But I don't think he'd tell us history happened a certain way if he thought it was impossible.
 
If you can't tell me who you consider to be a reliable source the exercise is pointless. Did you happen to notice Nick Terry's response? That was a constructive response. Would agree that his sources are reliable?

Actually, let's just play the game your way. I'll prove my assertion and then you'll tell me what you agree with.

Treblinka wouldn't work as it is described because it is impossible to bring two million people at the same time to a camp that is on 20 x 25 feet and then feed them to crocodiles over a twelve hour period. That's 4,000 people per square foot at the start of the operation. Crowding would be alleviated through the process of feeding 166,666 people to the crocodiles every hour (or 2,777 every minute or 46 every second) but there's no space for the crocodiles at the start of the operation. So that's why Treblinka wouldn't work.

So what do you have a problem with? Do you think I've inflated the number of victims at Treblinka? Are you going to deny that the main method of execution was being eaten by crocodiles? Do you think that I've underestimated the length of time the camp was in operation? Do you think the camp was a little bigger in size? Or do you think that four thousand people can easily fit in a square foot and still leave room for crocodiles because crocodiles don't take up any space and only my personal incredulity and hatred of the Jews would cause me to fail to see this?

It's funny, you say my reply was a constructive response then offer up a completely ridiculous strawman replying to uke2se, and ignore my reply.

By all means
- debunk the notion that Treblinka killed 2 million people in a camp measuring 20 x 25 feet using crocodiles. It won't change a single thing, except to make readers of this thread think you are barking mad.

The point made by uke2se, which you naturally missed or misunderstood, is that it is your claim that what happened at Treblinka was physically impossible, and therefore it's your burden of proof to outline an argument against the evidence.

This can't be done by trying to get people to stipulate that a certain secondary source is somehow definitive, if that's what you were after with Arad. It does not take very much effort to work out, as I explained above, that Arad was writing nearly a quarter of a century ago, and new evidence has come to light since then which ought to be taken into consideration in any discussion happening in 2011.

You also cannot fulfil your burden of proof by throwing back questions at people. Effectively we're all still waiting for you to begin outlining your argument in a conventional manner. All you've been doing is repeating the same handwaves that you've made on the preceding umpteen dozen posts, and then adding irrelevant flourishes.
 
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So (The-Victims-He-Hates) + (The-Victims-He-Doesn't-Hate) = Six million? How many of the six million weren't Jewish?

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The total equals the sum of the parts. That's how math works.


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Except for every newspaper in the United States that mentioned the number of people murdered at Auschwitz in a story published between 1945 and 1989 and every historian who read a story about Auschwitz that mentioned the number of people murdered at Auschwitz in a story published between 1945 and 1989 and couldn't be bothered to correct it.
 
The total equals the sum of the parts. That's how math works.

Only if you are comparing like with like. How many times has this been explained to you now? Are you really that dense? Or does denier solidarity dictate that you must lobotomise yourself just because one of your brethren is as thick as two short planks?
 
Hey Wroclaw, Nick Terry, Corsair 115, TSR, uke2se, LemmyCaution,
Dave Rogers, how about some answers?


Again proximity is a key to the Holohoax myth. 10000 people who pee at least three times a day are waiting to be gassed.

Where do 7, 8 , 9 thousand people WAIT in a camp? It's called staging.

Do they get meals?

Do they get water?

Do they have their own facilities to pee and do number 2?

Where did those 10,000 or so Jewish people wait every day that 10,000 Jewish people were gassed? Did they just mill around the camp?
 
It's funny, you say my reply was a constructive response then offer up a completely ridiculous strawman replying to uke2se, and ignore my reply.

It's not a completely ridiculous strawman. It's simply completely ridiculous. I was replying to uke2se, not to you. Your reply was constructive because it pointed to other sources that you think I need to consider. I can't respond to your suggestions until I review your links. uke2se (and, as always, TSR's) responses have been simply an impossible demand to prove something that they won't define. I'm not going to cite any sources that aren't considered reliable. I'm not going to use any specific fact from a reliable source unless that specific fact is considered reliable. I'm not going to waste my time building an argument without prior agreement regarding basic parameters of the camps in question and some general agreement as to how the universe works.

By all means[/I] - debunk the notion that Treblinka killed 2 million people in a camp measuring 20 x 25 feet using crocodiles. It won't change a single thing, except to make readers of this thread think you are barking mad.

I just did. If the parameters of the Treblinka camp are what I said they are, the official historiography of the camp insists upon four thousand people fitting into one square foot. That's not possible. I don't have anything more than my own incredulity to believe that but I don't need anything more than my own incredulity. I successfully debunked the Treblinka story without even addressing the issue of crocodiles not requiring physical space to exist.

But see, the parameters of the Treblinka camp that I used for my debunking are completely fabricated. However, there are certain known parameters of the Treblinka camp. If TSR and uke2se won't agree with me that my parameters are in agreement with the official historiography, there's no point to the exercise.


The point made by uke2se, which you naturally missed or misunderstood, is that it is your claim that what happened at Treblinka was physically impossible, and therefore it's your burden of proof to outline an argument against the evidence.

The point made by uke2se is that he wants me to lay out my argument and he'll tell me if he agrees with my conclusion. I can tell you right now that he's not going to agree with my conclusion. I want him to agree in advance about certain facts. For example, Arad says there were five mass graves at Treblinka. Is that acceptable? Can I go forward with that assumption? Probably not in light of more recent research. OK, one of your links has a chart showing the volume of the mass graves at, I think, Belzec. Can I use that figure if I'm talking about Belzec? If not, what should I use?

Your link to Alex Bay's reconstruction of Treblinka says that the camp was 53 acres. Is this reliable? Can I use that number?

These are the kinds of questions I want settled in advance. I know that team holocaust hates this sort of thing because specific details can be very dangerous to the holocaust.


This can't be done by trying to get people to stipulate that a certain secondary source is somehow definitive, if that's what you were after with Arad. It does not take very much effort to work out, as I explained above, that Arad was writing nearly a quarter of a century ago, and new evidence has come to light since then which ought to be taken into consideration in any discussion happening in 2011.

Of course newer information is usually better. Arad was relatively comprehensive back in the day but if there are better sources available now, then I will use those. If there are better sources that were written twenty five years before Arad, I'll use those. I rely on Arad for much of my knowledge about the AR camps because his work is complete and he's good about providing references. Also, his work seems to be respected by other sources including Yad Vashem and the USHMM.


You also cannot fulfil your burden of proof by throwing back questions at people. Effectively we're all still waiting for you to begin outlining your argument in a conventional manner. All you've been doing is repeating the same handwaves that you've made on the preceding umpteen dozen posts, and then adding irrelevant flourishes.

I am beginning to outline my argument in a conventional manner. The first step is to agree on what is a reliable source and what facts are established and are not established. TSR and uke2se haven't yet reached that point. At least you have a novice understanding of the need for some sort of common language in any conversation.
 
Again proximity is a key to the Holohoax myth. 10000 people who pee at least three times a day are waiting to be gassed.

Where do 7, 8 , 9 thousand people WAIT in a camp? It's called staging.

It would be helpful for you to read or listen to (available at YouTube) the testimony of Franz Suchomel, who was an SS guard at Treblinka. He deals with most of these issues. It's not our job to describe to you information you would know by doing even a base level of research. You are presumably not brain-damaged.

Do they get meals?

Do they get water?

Do they have their own facilities to pee and do number 2?

No, no, and no (and, on that third point, again, see Suchomel).

Where did those 10,000 or so Jewish people wait every day that 10,000 Jewish people were gassed? Did they just mill around the camp?

That's a stupid, stupid question.
 
It's not a completely ridiculous strawman. It's simply completely ridiculous. I was replying to uke2se, not to you. Your reply was constructive because it pointed to other sources that you think I need to consider. I can't respond to your suggestions until I review your links. uke2se (and, as always, TSR's) responses have been simply an impossible demand to prove something that they won't define. I'm not going to cite any sources that aren't considered reliable. I'm not going to use any specific fact from a reliable source unless that specific fact is considered reliable. I'm not going to waste my time building an argument without prior agreement regarding basic parameters of the camps in question and some general agreement as to how the universe works.

I just did. If the parameters of the Treblinka camp are what I said they are, the official historiography of the camp insists upon four thousand people fitting into one square foot. That's not possible. I don't have anything more than my own incredulity to believe that but I don't need anything more than my own incredulity. I successfully debunked the Treblinka story without even addressing the issue of crocodiles not requiring physical space to exist.

But see, the parameters of the Treblinka camp that I used for my debunking are completely fabricated. However, there are certain known parameters of the Treblinka camp. If TSR and uke2se won't agree with me that my parameters are in agreement with the official historiography, there's no point to the exercise.

The point made by uke2se is that he wants me to lay out my argument and he'll tell me if he agrees with my conclusion. I can tell you right now that he's not going to agree with my conclusion. I want him to agree in advance about certain facts. For example, Arad says there were five mass graves at Treblinka. Is that acceptable? Can I go forward with that assumption? Probably not in light of more recent research. OK, one of your links has a chart showing the volume of the mass graves at, I think, Belzec. Can I use that figure if I'm talking about Belzec? If not, what should I use?

Your link to Alex Bay's reconstruction of Treblinka says that the camp was 53 acres. Is this reliable? Can I use that number?

These are the kinds of questions I want settled in advance. I know that team holocaust hates this sort of thing because specific details can be very dangerous to the holocaust.

Of course newer information is usually better. Arad was relatively comprehensive back in the day but if there are better sources available now, then I will use those. If there are better sources that were written twenty five years before Arad, I'll use those. I rely on Arad for much of my knowledge about the AR camps because his work is complete and he's good about providing references. Also, his work seems to be respected by other sources including Yad Vashem and the USHMM.

I am beginning to outline my argument in a conventional manner. The first step is to agree on what is a reliable source and what facts are established and are not established. TSR and uke2se haven't yet reached that point. At least you have a novice understanding of the need for some sort of common language in any conversation.

It's perhaps unsurprising that you rewrite thread history yet again. Treblinka only recurred because you issued one of your typical handwaving pronouncements that it was 'physically impossible'. You specified 'scale' as the reason for this impossibility.

Naturally, you were challenged on this by several posters. I enquired as to whether the argument about 'scale' could cope with 42 other sites where the Nazis had cremated bodies en masse, many of which also saw gassings. To date you've not really come back with a coherent reply to this. But it's there, waiting in the wings, no matter how much you try to reduce the focus to Treblinka.

I mean, I presume you understand that an argument about scale can only make any sense if you can specify the threshold past which scale might actually matter. And that you're likely to be left with a lot of sites where an argument about scale doesn't apply.

I also presume that you understand it's perfectly possible for Arad's figure of 870,000 to be "impossible", but for the impossibility not to apply to a figure below 800,000. In which case: where is the threshold? 700,000? 600,000? 500,000? How can you establish this convincingly? It's your claim, so you're the one who has to specify the threshold. If you don't specify a threshold and establish theoretical or hypothetical maximums, then your argument re: scale will be incomplete and will fail.

Invoking impossibility naturally prompts the question of what was possible. Unless you are going to argue that Jews are inflammable, then at some point you're going to have to concede that it's perfectly possible to cremate large numbers of human beings in the open, since this was done several dozen times by the Nazis at sites with bodycounts varying by two orders of magnitude, from 7,000 to more than 700,000 victims. You've only chosen to dispute the higher end, however.

But even the higher end doesn't seem intrinsically impossible given that the British Army and MAFF managed to incinerate 10s of 1000s of tons of FMD-culled animal carcasses in a very short space of time just over 10 years ago, and also buried 61,000 tons of carcasses at four sites, the latter weight being equal to or very near to the most probable weight of the corpses produced by the three Reinhard camps. (It would work out at 870,000 adult males averaging 70kg, or 1.2-1.3 million men, women and children with an average weight of 45-50kg, bearing in mind that children will pull the average down drastically, and arguably even lower than 45kg).

uke2se not unreasonably asked you to show your maths. Instead of answering him, you went on a long ramble about Arad and got called on it by several posters, including me. It doesn't actually matter whether anyone calling you on this advanced any counter-evidence or counter-argument, the simple fact is that you hadn't advanced an argument of your own worth refuting.

You still haven't, and now you tell us it will await your 'review' of the sources recommended to you by me up thread, even though they are the same sources which have been mentioned before in previous Treblinka discussions (again, with me and others). Understandably, this prima facie evidence of your inability to digest information pisses people off.

You can use whatever numbers you like, Dogzilla. It's your argument, not ours. But you have been given fair warning that there are a variety of sources you might want to take into consideration before advancing your argument.

Another issue which needs to be borne in mind is the time scale. It is certainly more than possible that if you went for the worst-case scenario of 700,000 bodies tumbling into graves simultaneously, then they wouldn't have fitted. But all the evidence points to the fact that those bodies were dumped into graves over a period of many months. Not only would space efficiency be optimised by practice and experience, but decomposition would certainly come into play. This seems to have been the case at Belzec, for which we possess much better data regarding the grave dimensions and number of graves. There is a fair bit of empirical data on what happens when bodies decompose, which would have to be taken into consideration in any serious discussion. So any argument you make would have to take into consideration how the situation played out over time.

I would also give you fair warning that some of the issues cannot be resolved easily one way or another. The number and exact dimensions of the graves at Treblinka is one of them. We have much better data on those things for Belzec and Sobibor. Given this uncertainty, if you're going to try debunking the graves then you should do the sensible scientific thing of best/middle/worst case scenarios. As should be clear, it is quite likely that a worst case scenario can be debunked. But given the uncertainties you would have to debunk the best, middle and worst case scenarios to claim 'impossibility'.

So rather than trying to find some general agreement on one set of numbers (for Treblinka), it would be much more pleasant all round (and virtually revolutionary for a denier) if you went the best/middle/worst case route.

That's also another reason why the other 42 sites were mentioned. You know full well that Belzec, Sobibor and Chelmno have been excavated and much better data is now available than was the case in 1945. Any argument about mass graves or cremation is thus going to stand or fall on how it deals with those three camp sites. If there is no impossibility with those, then the chances of there being a genuine impossibility with Treblinka are slim to none.
 
Only if you are comparing like with like. How many times has this been explained to you now? Are you really that dense? Or does denier solidarity dictate that you must lobotomise yourself just because one of your brethren is as thick as two short planks?

Like with like? Well we have six million Jews total. Sometimes there are other people included in the holocaust but "six milliion" is always Jews. Then there's the Auschwitz four million. At the Zyklon B trial, it was four million allied nationals (actually four and a half million). Sometimes it's four million "victims." Sometimes it's four million "victims, most of them Jews" and sometimes it's "four million Jews." "Jews" with "Jews" is a pretty close comparison.

It's true that there's some inconsistency but what else is new when we're talking about the holocaust? If the only facts about the holocaust are the ones for which there is unanimous agreement, we don't know anything about the holocaust.
 
How come no matter how many witnesses are shown, deniers keep asking to show "just one witness"? Are these folks reading the same thread everybody else is?


I requested the name of one Jewish witness from Nick Terry. One witness from one person equals one witness total. We don't have the name of that witness.

The reason that Nick Terry cannot name one credible Jewish holohoax witness is that there is no such witness. Instead he produces an idiotic list that contains names like Elie Wiesel and Rudolf Hoess.

If Nick Terry will produce the name of this non-existent witness, we will proceed to demolish his/her 'testimony'. Until then, I will continue to point out that Nick Terry cannot name one credible Jewish witness.

Bradley Smith issued a challenge on many college campuses for the Zionists to name one person gassed at Auschwitz with proof of the claim. Yet, we don't have a single name accompanied by any proof at all. It is all a giant hoax, perpetrated by liars like Nick Terry and the other Zionists posters on this board.
 
Saggy, you've got a list.

Print it out. Pin it to a dartboard.

Close your eyes and throw a dart.

There is your name - do what you think you have to.
 
Saggy, you've got a list.

Print it out. Pin it to a dartboard.

Close your eyes and throw a dart.

There is your name - do what you think you have to.
Since Saggy refuses to pick and discuss a name on Nick's list, like Oscar Strawczynski, I will offer him another one: Pesye Schloss. This is not as difficult as Saggy wants to make it. Saggy claimed that all Jewish witnesses to events making up the Holocaust were pathological and degenerate liars. It is now a simple matter, it being down to Saggy to prove his claim in the case of Pesye Schloss.
 
If Nick Terry will produce the name of this non-existent witness, we will proceed to demolish his/her 'testimony'. Until then, I will continue to point out that Nick Terry cannot name one credible Jewish witness.

Saggy, you are improperly framing your argument in order to stack the deck in your favor. Bypassing all physical evidence, you are pinning everything on one eyewitness so you can make a marketing claim to others. Eyewitness testimony of one individual can almost always be found to have some flaw, that is why forensics relies on corroboration.
 
This is why it is impossible to discuss anything with Saggy.

Incomplete list of books published on Holocaust and important contextual issues since 2000 (the same year as the public ass-kicking of David Irving)

Ajenstat, Charles, Buk, Daniel and Harlan, Thomas (eds), Hermann Höfle. L’Autrichien artisan de la Shoah en Pologne. Paris, 2006
Alberti, Michael, Die Verfolgung und Vernichtung der Juden im Reichsgau Wartheland 1939-1945. Wiesbaden, 2006
Allen, Michael Thad, The Business of Genocide. The SS, Slave Labor and the Concentration Camps. NC, 2002.
Altman, I.A. (ed), Kholokost na territorii SSSR. Entsiklopediia. Moscow: Rosspen, 2011
Altman, Ilya, Zhertvy nenavisti. Kholokost v SSSR 1941-1945 gg. Moscow, 2002
Aly, Götz, Hitlers Volksstaat. Raub, Rassenkrieg und nationaler Sozialismus. Frankfurt am Main, 2005
Anders, Freia, Hauke Hendrik Kutschr and Katrin Stoll (eds), Bialystok in Bielefeld. Nationalsozialistische Verbrechen vor dem Landgericht Bielefeld 1958 bis 1967, Bielefeld, 2003
Anders, Freja, Stoll, Katrin, Wilke, Karsten (eds), Der Judenrat von Bialystok. Dokumente aus dem Archiv des Bialystoker Ghettos 1941-1943. Paderborn: Schöningh, 2010
Angrick, Andrej (Hrsg.) / Mallmann, Klaus-Michael (Hrsg.): Die Gestapo nach 1945. Konflikte, Karrieren, Konstruktionen. Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, Darmstadt 2009
Angrick, Andrej and Witte, Peter, Die ‘Endlösung’ in Riga. Ausbeutung und Vernichtung 1941-1944. Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft: Darmstadt, 2006
Angrick, Andrej, Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord. Die Einsatzgruppe D in der südlichen Sowjetunion 1941-1943. Hamburg, 2003
Arad, Yitzhak, The Holocaust in the Soviet Union. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 2009
Arnold, Klaus Jochen, Die Wehrmacht und die Besatzungspolitik in den besetzten Gebieten der Sowjetunion. Kriegführung und Radikalisierung im ‘Unternehmen Barbarossa’. Berlin, 2004
Aronson, Shlomo, Hitler, the Allies, and the Jews. Cambridge, 2004
Bajohr, Frank and Pohl, Dieter, Der Holocaust als offenes Geheimnis. Die Deutschen, die NS-Führung und die Alliierten. Munich: C.H. Beck, 2006
Bajohr, Frank and Wildt, Michael (eds), Volksgemeinschaft. Neue Forschungen zur Gesellschaft des Nationalsozialismus. Frankfurt am Main: Fischer Verlag, 2009
Bankier, David (ed), Probing the depths of German antisemitism: German society and the persecution of the Jews, 1933-1941. New York: Berghahn, 2000
[FONT=&quot]Bankier, David (ed), The Jews are coming back : the return of the Jews to their countries of origin after WW II. New York : Berghahn Books; Jerusalem : Yad Vashem, 2005[/FONT]
Bankier, David and Dan Michman (eds), Holocaust Historiography in Context: Emergence, Challenges, Polemics and Achievements (Jerusalem, 2008).
Bartov, Omer (ed), Holocaust: origins, implementation, aftermath. London, 2000
Bartov, Omer, Erased: Vanishing Traces of Jewish Galicia in Present Day Ukraine (Princeton, 2007).
Bartusevicius, Vincas, Tauber, Joachim and Wette, Wolfgang (eds), Holocaust in Litauen. Krieg, Judenmorde und Kollaboration im Jahre 1941. Köln, 2003
Bauer, Yehuda, The Death of the Shtetl. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2009
Baum, Herwig, Varianten des Terrors. Ein Vergleich zwischen der deutschen und rumänischen Besatzungsverwaltung in der Sowjetunion 1941-1944. Berlin: Metropol, 2011
Baum, Steven K., The Psychology of Genocide. Perpetrators, Bystanders, and Rescuers. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2008
Baxter, Ian, The Commandant. Rudolf Höss, the Creator of Auschwitz. Dunboyne, 2008
Baxter, Ian, The SS of Treblinka, Stroud: The History Press, 2010.
Beevor, Anthony (ed), A Writer at War: Vasily Grossman with the Red Army 1941-1945. London, 2005
Beischl, Konrad, Dr. med. Eduard Wirths und seine Tätigkeit als SS-Standortarzt im KL Auschwitz. Würzburg: Königshausen & Neumann, 2005
[FONT=&quot]Beischl, Konrad, Dr. med. Eduard Wirths und seine Tätigkeit als SS-Standortarzt im KL Auschwitz. Würzburg, 2005[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Bem, Mark (ed), Sobibor. Warsaw: Osrodek Karta. Dom Spotkan z Historia, 2010
Bender, Sara, The Jews of Bialystok during World War II and the Holocaust. London, 2008
Benz, Angelika, Der Henkersknecht: Der Prozess gegen John (Iwan) Demjanjuk in München, Berlin: Metropol, 2011
Benz, Wolfgang (ed), Wann ziehen wir endlich den Schlussstrich? Von der Notwendigkeit oeffentlicher Erinnerung in Deutschland, Polen und Tschechien. Metropol Verlag, Berlin, 2004
Benz, Wolfgang (Hrsg.) / Distel, Barbara (Hrsg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 4: Flossenbürg, Mauthausen, Ravensbrück. C. H. Beck Verlag, München 2006
Benz, Wolfgang and Distel, Barbara (eds), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 3: Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald. Munich: C.H. Beck, 2006
Benz, Wolfgang and Distel, Barbara (eds), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 5; Hinzert, Auschwitz, Neuengamme. Munich: C.H. Beck, 2007
Benz, Wolfgang and Distel, Barbara (eds), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 6: Natzweiler, Gross-Rosen, Stutthof. Munich: C.H. Beck, 2007
Benz, Wolfgang and Distel, Barbara (eds), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 7: Lublin-Majdanek, Dora-Mittelbau. Munich: C.H. Beck, 2007
Benz, Wolfgang and Distel, Barbara (eds), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 8: Riga-Kaiserwald, Warschau, Vaivara, Kauen (Kaunas), Plaszow, Kulmhof/Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. C.H. Beck: Munich, 2008
Benz, Wolfgang and Distel, Barbara (eds), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. Band 9: Arbeitserziehungslager, Ghettos, Jugendschutzlager, Polizeihaftlager, Sonderlager, Zigeunerlager, Zwangsarbeitslager. Munich: C.H. Beck, 2009
Benz, Wolfgang and Körte, Mona (eds), Solidarität und Hilfe für Juden während der NS-Zeit. Bd. 4: Rettung im Holocaust. Bedingungen und Erfahrungen des Ueberlebens. Berlin: Metropol, 2001
Berg, Nicolas. Der Holocaust und die westdeutschen Historiker. Erforschung und[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Erinnerung. Göttingen: Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, 2003
Bergen, Doris L., War and Genocide: a concise history of the Holocaust. Lanham, 2003
Berkhoff, Karel C., Harvest of Despair. Life and Death in Ukraine Under Nazi Rule. London, 2004
Berkowitz, Michael, The Crime of My Very Existence. Nazism and the Myth of Jewish Criminality. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2007
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Michlic, Joanna Beata, Poland’s Threatening Other. The Image of the Jew from 1880 to the Present. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 2006
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Total, 444 titles

Number read by Saggy: apparently zero
 
Saggy, you are improperly framing your argument in order to stack the deck in your favor. Bypassing all physical evidence, you are pinning everything on one eyewitness so you can make a marketing claim to others. Eyewitness testimony of one individual can almost always be found to have some flaw, that is why forensics relies on corroboration.
This is true, but in point of fact what will inevitably happen should Saggy ever fix on his "one eyewitness" and start and keep at discussion concerning this "one witness" is that other witnesses and other forms of evidence will be drawn in, compared, sifted, evaluated, put together, etc. Unless, of course, like Clayton Moore, Saggy intends as the only yardstick his limited, parochial, and hopelessly biased experience of the world.
 
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