Yet another nail in the Apollo Hoax coffin

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threadworm said:
Did you actually read my post? You obviously haven't heard of Mitchell & Webb. You should see the fun they have with the same sketch format about 9/11, Kennedy and Princess Diana. Try and develop a sense of humour.

"Could have" is not the same as "was". Simply stating something as a fact does not make it a fact.

You do not need a multi-stage rocket to launch a satellite.
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"An upper stage is a mechanism, part of the launch vehicle system, that has no other purpose than to lift upwards something else - a spacecraft, satellite or another payload." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket

Again, the video tries to imply that the Apollo moon hoax is improbable because they would not have needed to built a real rocket to stage a moon hoax.
 
Anders Lindman said:
I did not say that you were a liar. I said that anyone can claim all sorts of things on an Internet forum.
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Are you saying I didn't see what I said I saw?

Ok, let's say you are correct, then at what company/agency did you see those drawings firsthand?
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Discussed at length in the post itself. Quit stalling and either substantiate your claim or apologize for the insinuation.
 
Anders Lindman said:
These are hardly detailed schematics: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7060133&postcount=57

You follow?
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Proof that you don't know what you're asking for or talking about. A "schematic" shows the conceptual relationship among components. It does not show dimensions. Saying you want dimensions and asking for "detailed schematics" belies your ignorance. You are simply using technical-sounding language to give your uninformed claims an improper air of correctness.

In my expert professional opinion as an aerospace engineer, you have been given sufficient documentation for the dimensions of the Saturn V launch vehicle. You have also been given sufficient "schematics" to answer conceptual questions.
 
I'd like to hear Jay's analyses of these two anomalies.

The waving flag issue-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

And this issue-

Collins' jacket corner bounces up and down the way it would in gravity when they were supposed to be halfway to the moon in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fqdB1b53jc
(00:52 time mark)

The movement is very different from the straps in this clip which is in zero-G.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofwzby1c7o
(3:17 time mark)

This footage in zero-G shows jacket corners moving quite differently from the way Collins' jacket corner moved.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TejsnPThmd4

(edit to add)
The jacket corners in this clip move the way Collins' does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTNGNW5Evs4

It looks like they faked some of the footage of the trip to the moon too.


Thirty one of my posts have been deleted from threads on this site. Whenever I start getting the upper hand in a debate, the next day I see that the posts in which I made my main points are gone. Now I only make one post every one or two days here so I won't be responding immediately.

I made a post on another thread to ask Jay to respond to this thread below but it got deleted so here it is again.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628

Let's see if it stays this time.
 
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Craig4 said:
Explain.
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Allow me: AL is lying - still. He claimed on the other thread that NASA could have arbitrarily changed the size of the Saturn V without anybody noticing. I did him the courtesy of providing reasonably detailed explanations, and I pointed out how absolutely ridiculous the claim was - the Saturn V dimensions could be observed by the public, as well as by tens of thousands of workers, and were consistent with data published over the life of the program. I provided numbers in a convenient tabular form with references, spanning from 1963 to 1971, over ten months ago, and called his attention to it multiple times.

AL's response was to pretend this information had never been provided. He explicity repeated this falsehood in this thread:
Anders Lindman said:
... Try to find detailed specifications of the Saturn V rocket. The most detailed information I have seen about the Saturn V dimensions are some crude diagrams.
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I dropped him to the Ignore list a long time ago, as it was clear he would simply say any idiot thing to get attention from the grown-ups, but it was worth showing that post for demonstration purposes.

Again, AL is a troll and a liar. Don't feed the troll; don't indulge the liar.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Whenever I start getting the upper hand in a debate, the next day I see that the posts in which I made my main points are gone.
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DavidC/rocky/cosmored/FF88, I think the idea of you "getting the upper hand in a debate" is very funny. Is that sort of like when you had to deny the South Atlantic Anomaly even existed, because it demonstrates the daily experience of satellite operators and ISS astronauts? (Rocky's response was to whine that not only was I lying, but so were all those scientists from the 21 countries I listed which had conducted studies on the SAA.)

Or was that when you approvingly cited the fellow who denied that there were any images of stars from NASA spacecraft? That was... special. Your response was to deny that you'd even read that part. Look, all you are able to do, aside from claim everyone who disagrees with you is lying, is to regurgitate others' hoax claims. At least do that right.

DavidC/rocky/cosmored/FatFreddy88, here is a direct question: Do you really think you will ever convince anyone? Let alone those of us who actually do this for a living? Seriously.
 
Anders Lindman said:
"An upper stage is a mechanism, part of the launch vehicle system, that has no other purpose than to lift upwards something else - a spacecraft, satellite or another payload." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket

Again, the video tries to imply that the Apollo moon hoax is improbable because they would not have needed to built a real rocket to stage a moon hoax.
Click to expand...

Actually the video is implying that conspiracy theories are stupid and built on logic that doesn't actually make sense. You really are arguing that Mitchell & Webb are part of the conspiracy aren't you.

If they didn't need to build a real rocket to stage a moon hoax isn't a bit odd that they actually did? And launched it. With people on board. Who went to the moon.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Collins' jacket corner bounces up and down the way it would in gravity...
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...and your evidence for this is, what?



It looks like they faked some of the footage of the trip to the moon too.
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Why should we care what it "looks like" to you??


Thirty one of my posts have been deleted from threads on this site.
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Sounds like a mod is doing something right...I may rethink my participation here.


Whenever I start getting the upper hand in a debate, the next day I see that the posts in which I made my main points are gone. Now I only make one post every one or two days here so I won't be responding immediately.
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So "if only" your "arguments" were left on the board, everyone would agree with you?


That's an excuse, not a reason.


I made a post...
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Sorry., I see the name David Icky, and I don't bother looking further....
 
sts60 said:
Allow me: AL is lying - still. He claimed on the other thread that NASA could have arbitrarily changed the size of the Saturn V without anybody noticing.
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Ha! Wrong. Because I checked it a bit closer and the Saturn V rocket, including the building it was housed in, were the sizes claimed. So if you read the entire threads about that you will see that I changed my mind about that theory. (And the initial theory was that Saturn V was smaller than they claimed, not that they changed the size of it.)
 
JayUtah said:
Prove that I am lying, or apologize.
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I doubt he will do either...


One thing "telling" about internet forums, you can evaluate the character of a poster by their actions, (or inactions).




So what's your "excuse" for not responding to Jay's post, anders??
 
FatFreddy88 said:
I'd like to hear Jay's analyses of these two anomalies.

The waving flag issue-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

And this issue-

Collins' jacket corner bounces up and down the way it would in gravity when they were supposed to be halfway to the moon in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fqdB1b53jc
(00:52 time mark)

The movement is very different from the straps in this clip which is in zero-G.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofwzby1c7o
(3:17 time mark)

This footage in zero-G shows jacket corners moving quite differently from the way Collins' jacket corner moved.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TejsnPThmd4

(edit to add)
The jacket corners in this clip move the way Collins' does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTNGNW5Evs4

It looks like they faked some of the footage of the trip to the moon too.


Thirty one of my posts have been deleted from threads on this site. Whenever I start getting the upper hand in a debate, the next day I see that the posts in which I made my main points are gone. Now I only make one post every one or two days here so I won't be responding immediately.

I made a post on another thread to ask Jay to respond to this thread below but it got deleted so here it is again.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628

Let's see if it stays this time.
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I can answer this (and several very similar claims).

Apollo Deniers are poor observers.

There's a moment in the musical "Sweeney Todd" when Anthony is asked for the exact hair color of the girl he has admired from afar, as part of a plan to pose as wig-makers and thus extricate her from Bedlam. "Yellow," he declares in blind confidence.

Sweeney gives him a pitying look. "Not exact enough," he says. "There's blonde, and saffron, cornsilk...."

In a great many claims similar to that above, the Apollo Denier believes they have, based on long observation, a very good idea of how things move in real life. They have, however, no experience in animation or in any other field that would actually justify this confidence.

The actual movements of the real world are not those of the denier's untrained, unexamined expectations. The ruler they attempt to hold up to the Apollo record in order to find the latter false is as twisted as the reflection in a funhouse mirror.
 
Anders Lindman said:
The video is trying to make the connection that if the Apollo missions really were a hoax then would they really have bothered creating real Saturn V rockets? That's an ignorant claim since the Saturn V rockets could have been a part of NROs' secret military space program.
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Are you actually reduced to arguing with comedians now? Is arguing about anything with actual evidence so hard that you can only nitpick jokes? Even then, it's pitifully weak to argue that a pair of satirists are 'ignorant' merely because they don't know about one of your entirely unevidenced personal fantasies.
 
Anders Lindman said:
I have already replied to that.
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Yes...anyone can post anything to the internet...


Jay is a recognized authority regarding Apollo. His "word" is beyond reproach...and if/when he makes a mistake, he owns it.


On the other hand...You have been caught in numerous errors that you stubbornly refuse to resolve...

You strongly imply that Jay is a liar, then "run away" when confronted.

...and finally, your misunderstand on things, scientific/space related does not inspire any confidence whatsoever that you are a person worth listening to.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Ha! Wrong. Because I checked...
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You claimed in this thread that reliable information regarding the Saturn V dimensions was impossible to find. You were wrong, and you knew you were wrong when you said that.

Further, you moved the goalpost and said that what you wanted was, vaguely speaking, "detailed schematics." You have yet to elaborate on what you think those are, and why you think they are relevant to the validity of the Saturn V.

I have further asked you whether you have read the Saturn V Flight Manual, and you have not answered.
 
Anders Lindman said:
That's the other diagram I meant! I think. Compare the height specified in the Wikipedia article:

"Height 363.0 feet (110.6 m)" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V

With the height in the diagram you posted:

"4240.79 inches, 107.716 meters" -- http://jleslie48.com/0206pr/saturn5allclean2.jpg

Inconsistency!
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What's inconsistent about it? Inches and meters are two different units of measurement, and both are actively used.

Conversion of Inches to Meters said:
1 inch x 2.540 x 10-2 = 1 meter
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anders, why do you make claims, and then refuse to "back up" those claims?


Perhaps you should stop that....it makes you look foolish.
 
SUSpilot said:
For Anderson' benefit, a lot of things aren't exactly alike. I should know the number, but in production, Boeing is allowed several inches variance in the overall length of the 747, IIRC.
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Not according to the TCDS, but that doesn't mean anything as that could be covered under a STC somewhere, which are harder to search.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Oh. I missed that. I guess I'm the one with a blind spot. :o Sorry about that.

But again: At what company/agency did you see the drawings? That would help me better estimate the truthfulness in what you claim.
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Not only do you not answer the question, you ask an unrelated and completely pointless question.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Oh. I missed that.
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Yes you did, along with a lot of other stuff. Your inattention grows tedious.

I guess I'm the one with a blind spot. :o Sorry about that.
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I will accept your apology when you answer my question. Fourth time asking.

Are you saying that I did not see what I said I saw -- original drawings of portions of the Saturn V launch vehicle?

But again: At what company/agency did you see the drawings?
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And again: covered at length in my post on the subject and in several subsequent posts. You are clearly not reading my posts, and you have the temerity to try to accuse me of lying. I will not indulge your laziness and inattention.

Now quit stalling.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Oh. I missed that. I guess I'm the one with a blind spot. :o Sorry about that.

But again: At what company/agency did you see the drawings? That would help me better estimate the truthfulness in what you claim.
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In what way? If JayUtah, who has the credentials to judge such things, says he saw authentic, credible, detailed technical drawings for the Saturn V on what basis can you, who has zero knowledge or expertise, question his statement?
 
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