You need to do one or the other...or tell us why you can't.
It very badly reflects on your character when you find it impossible to do one or the other.
Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga
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You need to do one or the other...or tell us why you can't.
It very badly reflects on your character when you find it impossible to do one or the other.
dafydd
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Buy a flagpole and a flag, hoist the flag and observe it. What about my point about NASA being stupid enough to release footage that proves it was all faked? Do you really think that NASA were as dumb as CT nuts?
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Malarky...you have failed to support with any evidence that the landings were faked...since the Apollo missions are historical FACT, you are the "failed one" here.
Nothing you have said has been considered credible...as evidenced by the lopsided poll.
Oh, look; magic conditionals. Sorry, not buying into it. You don't get to reject every single case of movement near a flag because it doesn't appear identical.
This isn't a once-in-a-million happening. If it was, it wouldn't be the basis of your argument, would it? The framework of your argument requires that the flag react to activity around it that would tend to generate air movement. If you can't find a single other case of the flag moving when someone merely passes by, then your assumptions about the underlying behavior are probably wrong.
Wrong. Billowing is the natural motion of fabric in atmosphere. It has to do with being a flexible surface with air resistance that is fastened at one or more edges. Force applied by air movement to a panel of fabric that is attached at one edge will not move the entire assembly as a unit; it will cause the fabric to bell out until the force necessary to move the support is small than the force necessary to bend the fabric.
This is how we recognize fabric. This is how fabric in motion looks different from steel plate in motion. This is what animators have been doing for years. What painters have been achieving in snapshot. What software render packages are just now achieving efficiently enough for real-time rendering. There are extensive mathematical descriptions of how cloth moves in air.
Well, he sure seems to think that the majority of posters here are "that dumb". He has to think that or his hoax world would collapse around him.
Erock
Muse
I simply cannot be bothered to type replies to Fatfreddy88. It is like he has some sort of script he uses to reply to posts, and will never ever accept logic, simple explanations or opposing and very much more informed opinions.
1/ There are 3 seperate examples of the path of the astronaut past the flag, all 3 of them, including Jarrah White suggest that the astronaut was close enough to brush it with his arm. He will NEVER acknowledge that even Jarrah White is correct here. He will not even acknowledge that it is even plausible. He says he disagrees, but offers no analysis at all to back this up.
2/ There is a small movement prior to the astronaut passing by the flag on the Moon, but it starts between 5 to 4 feet away. Fatfreddy88 will NEVER respond to this point and explain how air moves that far in front of something. It is simply wrong beyond words to suggest this happens, there is no law of physics to cover it.
3/ He has been shown example videos where Jarrah White's flag billows, where it doesn't even flicker until he is really close/level with it, and where Jarrah White's flag stops in rapid time. He will NEVER acknowledge these points.
4/ He has been shown close up videos of the initial movement where the flag pole clearly moves. He flat out denies this totally obvious movement. He will NEVER change his mind or acknowledge this.
5/ He shows us 2 videos where some guy wafting a book also causes the flag to billow. The Apollo 15 flag doesn't billow. He will NEVER acknowledge this.
6/ It is a perfectly reasonable suggestion to say that footsteps on the Moon will cause vibration. He will NEVER acknowledge that.
As for "Michael Collins' Jacket" - search youtube with that phrase and watch his argument(I use the term very loosely
) blown out of the water.
The debating hall have rejected your entry on the grounds of unsupported, uninformed bare assertion. People inside are sniggering at you.
1/ There are 3 seperate examples of the path of the astronaut past the flag, all 3 of them, including Jarrah White suggest that the astronaut was close enough to brush it with his arm. He will NEVER acknowledge that even Jarrah White is correct here. He will not even acknowledge that it is even plausible. He says he disagrees, but offers no analysis at all to back this up.
2/ There is a small movement prior to the astronaut passing by the flag on the Moon, but it starts between 5 to 4 feet away. Fatfreddy88 will NEVER respond to this point and explain how air moves that far in front of something. It is simply wrong beyond words to suggest this happens, there is no law of physics to cover it.
3/ He has been shown example videos where Jarrah White's flag billows, where it doesn't even flicker until he is really close/level with it, and where Jarrah White's flag stops in rapid time. He will NEVER acknowledge these points.
4/ He has been shown close up videos of the initial movement where the flag pole clearly moves. He flat out denies this totally obvious movement. He will NEVER change his mind or acknowledge this.
5/ He shows us 2 videos where some guy wafting a book also causes the flag to billow. The Apollo 15 flag doesn't billow. He will NEVER acknowledge this.
6/ It is a perfectly reasonable suggestion to say that footsteps on the Moon will cause vibration. He will NEVER acknowledge that.
As for "Michael Collins' Jacket" - search youtube with that phrase and watch his argument(I use the term very loosely
) blown out of the water.The debating hall have rejected your entry on the grounds of unsupported, uninformed bare assertion. People inside are sniggering at you.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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BAUT only hold up posts from new mwmbers as a Spam Filter. Until a fairly low (but unspecified) number of posts have been made they have to be approved by a Mod.
ALl the rules for posting to BAUT are laid out in the rules. People get banned for being abusive and not supporting their ideas if they relate to Against the Mainstream or Conspiracy subjects.
All the posts you made to BAUT are available for anyone to see and so is the reason for any banning.
ALl the rules for posting to BAUT are laid out in the rules. People get banned for being abusive and not supporting their ideas if they relate to Against the Mainstream or Conspiracy subjects.
All the posts you made to BAUT are available for anyone to see and so is the reason for any banning.
mercatormac
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The info in the link at the bottom of that post consists of, at my count, a mere 95 links in the inimitable FatFreddy88 style.
Perhaps Dave you might like to explain how I can post a FF88 message containing FF88 links in the FF88 style without them thinking that I am a sock puppet of FatFreddy88?
And is it really surprising that BAUT would then remove this message as per their rules?
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Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
Hi. I'm a viewer, pleased to meetcha.
Your willful, total ignorance on this subject, coupled with a world-class level of arrogance is 17-car-pile-up awesome to behold.
Perhaps, maybe, possibly, might have, could be you will change course and learn something about respect, consideration, evidence, burden of proof, and other matters related to this subject. Perhaps, maybe, possibly not.
What-ev. It's your funeral.
sts60
Illuminator
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Bump for FatFreddy88/David C/rocky.
Please, David C, this is important. Really try to let set aside your prejudices for a minute and think. Can you do that?
dafydd
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FatFreddy88
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This is true if the breeze is strong enough to make it billow. In this clip of the flag filmed in a studio the breeze is simply not strong enough to make it billow. It's only strong enough to make it move slightly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
(2:36 timemark)
In this clip Jarrah runs by the flag a little faster and at a different angle than that of the Apollo astronaut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr76qSQ9ZQQ
(8:30 time mark)
The breeze that reaches the flag is strong enough to make it billow slightly. That's why Jarrah's flag billows a little and the Apollo flag doesn't. Any third-grader could see this.
You can pretend all you want. You are checkmated by this flag anomaly; it's really amusing how you people have the attitude that you're winning the debate the whole time you're losing.
realpaladin
Master Poster
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FF88, did you try it out yet?
Well may be a really gullible third grader...
Really? I just checked and its 254-1 in favour of Apollo being real on the poll so once again the empirical evidence contradicts you. You've checkmated no one, you're cherry picking and misrepresentation are getting you nowhere fast.
sts60
Illuminator
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Rocky/FF88, did you miss my appeal to you to set aside your religious, knee-jerk denialism and think for a moment? Why does a practicing space engineer like me think you, a layman, is wrong about Apollo? And why do 250 individuals in the poll - real people - think you're wrong?
Listen VERY carefully, fred...NO ONE GIVES A DAMN WHAT THAT IGNORANT ASS JARRAH HAS TO SAY.
Do you understand, or should we conduct another poll showing you how NO ONE CARES what Jarrah says???????
If Jarrah hasn't the "courage" to debate, here, then there is no reason for you to be his "parrot"...in other words, every time you reference Jarrah, you will be called what you are....an ignorant puppet.
Do you understand???
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Couldn't have said it better myself....to maintain your illusion, all the posters who disagree with you, are either lying or socks. You can't, for even a minute concede that you might be wrong.
Talk about being "closed-minded".
Why can't you answer STS60's query?? What are you afraid of???
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Failure.
After investing years to no avail, he can't bear the thought. That's my guess.
With all due apologies to sts60, Lets see if I can answer ala freddy...
First, you are not a space engineer.
Second, you are lying when you say that Apollo was real, and you know it.
Third, I am not wrong about Apollo.
Forth, people agree with me....the poll was faked..."stuffed" with socks....
How'd I do, Freddy?....now you don't even have to post as I have "covered" it for ya.
Take the afternoon off...
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FatFreddy88
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I did answer. He didn't like the answer so he takes the attitude that I didn't answer. Here's the post where I answered him.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8172784&postcount=8086
I have to be careful what I say on this forum but this post will give you a clue to what I think about that poll.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8177686&postcount=8160
I'd like to say it directly, but I'd risk getting banned.
Nobody has given a serious rebuttal to post #8172. You all are just tap dancing around. Tell us why you disagree with what I said about why the Apollo flag didn't billow. Your behavior here would get you laughed out of the debating hall.
dafydd
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You 'answered' him by posting a link to a loony website?
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abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Which says nothing about Apollo, but lots about your unsupported belief.
Paranoia. If you post honestly, then you will not be banned. Unless you are deliberately seeking to gain an "I was banned from JREF" badge, but you wouldn't sink to that, would you?
See above.
But you have been provided with rebuttal, both elsewhere, and in this very thread. Why do you refuse to read those rebuttals?
Why do you keep recycling this phrase? It adds no weight to your argument, and is borderline ad hom.
threadworm
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You didn't answer him, you avoided answering him and pointed to a website and in so doing intimating that everyone who disagrees with you is a liar.
Your problem is that the reason people disagree with you is not because they are sock puppets, or liars, or paid agents of some mysterious woo, or whatever garbage excuse you can think of that gets you out of thinking of your own answers instead of sucking at the teat of Jarrah White, but because you are hopelessly and utterly wrong.
Allow me to instruct...your "answer" is crap....it is not an answer but an obvious "dodge".
Let me get this straight....you are exposing to the world that the lunar landings were faked...which would have to be the biggest "news" story ever, and you are scared of being banned?
What kind of coward are you??
According to you?...REJECTED....your EXTREME bias precludes you from making that determination
So you simply ignore the poll, huh? Are you saying that the leadership of this board would condone purposeful lies....are you calling the mods liars?
<snip>
Edited by Loss Leader:
Edited for Rule 12
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FatFreddy88
Critical Thinker
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Look at all the posts between this one and post #8172. I don't see a single rebuttal. Show me which one it is.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Surely, you don't really want to go there, you will be swamped!
But, if you do so be it.
Your call, concede or be embarrassed on yet another forum.
ETA: the rebuttals came before ~8172. you just ignored them, and others couldn't be bothered to repost them yet again.
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FatFreddy88
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You people sure are good at tap dancing around and playing for time. I say that the reason the Apollo flag didn't billow is because the breeze simply wasn't strong enough to make it billow. It was only strong enough to make it move slightly. The breeze that made Jarrah's flag billow slightly was a bit stronger because he was running a bit faster and he was at a different angle to the flag than that of the Apollo astronaut.
Someone please give a rebuttal to that right now.
Someone please give a rebuttal to that right now.
Your opinion is irrelevant...no one cares what you have to say...remember the poll?
No...
FatFreddy88
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Post #8189
This is classic. This is the behavior of someone who doesn't believe his own arguments who is cornered. You people are not truth-seekers. You seem to be professional obfuscators.
dafydd
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Already done, but you don't seem to have the nous to understand it.
FatFreddy88
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No it hasn't. Post #8172 was my rebuttal to post #8164. Now I want a counter-rebuttal. If you believe your own arguments, you'll stop tap dancing around and give a serious response.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
There is no rebuttal you will accept.
Really, you ought to rethink.
Obviously, you have not thought this through
Logically, you are wrong
Logistically, you are overloaded with thoughts you cannot handle.
What is there to rebut? You've cherry picked and demonstrated a painful lack of knowledge on basic issues, and the overwhelming majority of people who have viewed this thread know it.
sts60
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No, David C, that is not what I said. Please do not misrepresent me. In post 8068 and others I have explained that you were required to provide explicit evidence for you calling me a liar, or I would consider the point conceded. You have provided no evidence for your accusation, as I pointed out, so the point is conceded. I also said that I would ignore any further attempts to restate your accusation unless you did provide evidence; we've moved on.
So, FatFreddy88, please answer this question: Why does an experienced space engineer like me disagree about the reality of Apollo with you? What does that tell you about your claim? Think for a minute. Someone who's knowledgeable in the field actually disagrees with you. What could that mean?
You didn't answer the question. You restated your belief. That's a recursive accusation. You have also frequently resorted to creepy loyalty tests reminiscent of the evil Powers That Be against which you rail, but evidently secretly admire. No, I won't submit to loyalty tests; that's for people who like controlling others' minds.
Spare us the cheap theatrics. Your posts might get moved to AAH, just as mine did. You repeatedly claimed your posts had been deleted, which is false. Your misrepresentation was promptly corrected both here on on the Spurstalk forum.
You claimed all the "viewers" backed you up, just as you did on apollohoax. Just as happened there, I did your work for you to test your claim, and once again the "viewers" showed up and said you were wrong - over two hundred of them. And, predictably, you could not bring yourself to face the result; once again, you accused all those people of lying or being sock-puppets, without any evidence to back up your claim.
However, as I already told you that any claims that these people were lying or sock-puppets without explicit evidence for your accusation would be rejected, your claim fails, and the results stand; currently 256-1 against you, including the active participants as well as the viewers - and one guy who may have voted for you as a joke or by mistake.
Unfortunately for you, the viewers weren't fooled. They overwhelmingly think you're wrong. Don't whine about it now, don't try to run away from it. You asked for it.
Why, then, do you think all those 256 people don't agree with you? These are real people, giving their real opinions. What does that tell you when you asserted that they'd all agree with you? Try to think for a minute.
Quit with the drama queen routine, rocky. No one cares about you; there's no government satellite tracking your posts; no one here is paid to do battle with you. You're irrelevant. I'm trying to educate you, on my own time, and to help you out of this tight little cocoon of paranoia and ignorance you've woven around yourself, but I can't do it all for you. You have to be willing to put aside your religious convictions for a moment and think. Can you do that?FatFreddy88 said:
sts60
Illuminator
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Oh, and by the way:
Wrong.
I created a new thread there and posted the direct link to the Spurstalk thread with your "info". It sits there, freely available for any user, registered or not.
David C/rocky/FatFreddy88, you have a long history of paranoid posts about how you're being suppressed, when you simply refuse to abide by the Terms of Service for various forums. Please don't represent that you are being suppressed somehow when you willfully violate the user agreements at different fora... and get banned because you are unable to behave like an adult... and your "info" is still posted on the websites in all its self-referential glory. That is a very easily disprovable misrepresentation.
Wrong.
I created a new thread there and posted the direct link to the Spurstalk thread with your "info". It sits there, freely available for any user, registered or not.
David C/rocky/FatFreddy88, you have a long history of paranoid posts about how you're being suppressed, when you simply refuse to abide by the Terms of Service for various forums. Please don't represent that you are being suppressed somehow when you willfully violate the user agreements at different fora... and get banned because you are unable to behave like an adult... and your "info" is still posted on the websites in all its self-referential glory. That is a very easily disprovable misrepresentation.
Bullcrap....this is the behavior of someone who has tired of your repeated references to Jarrah...who considers you nothing more than a Jarrah puppet who can't think for himself.
No one agrees with you...
How does it feel to be the laughing stock of an entire web forum, because that is what you are.
Why do you repeat this lie? Do you think ANYONE here agrees with you?
No one does...
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