• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm guessing that only a fuhrerbefehl, signed, notarized, witnessed and said signing photographed will satisfy them.

But It won't count because there's no motion picture footage.
 
SnakeTongue said:
Cited examples?

You have being evading an simple question:

What is the correct claim?

You have show that after several posts you were not able to define the correct claim and did not even provided one single reference...

Prove me wrong.



What is the right claim?



Secondary references and your personal discussion is not primary evidence.



There:



http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8161027&postcount=45



Pictures of bodies being cremated do not prove the bodies were gassed.



I do not pretend to have any debate with you about secondary evidence...



I made you a question... You are evading with another question.
Click to expand...

Hi all,

I'm not an expert, but is SnakeTongue giving lessons in JAQing off?
 
ANTPogo said:
I have no idea where you dug that strawman up (...)
Click to expand...

I dug from you fairy tale.

ANTPogo said:
Of course you have no comment. You have trouble dealing with historical truth, which is why you're a Holocaust denier.
Click to expand...

Transforming your logic in a simple formula:

Historical truth = Wikipedia * (deception)

ANTPogo said:
And yet, I'm the one that provided reference links to everything I said about the treatment of Jews in Germany, with said links in turn themselves linking to additional references.
Click to expand...

Well done.

You just forgot to provide the references to explain the persecution of the non-Jews and their fate in the supposedly mass extermination plan...

ANTPogo said:
While Clayton, by contrast, has provided not one single thing to back up his claim about what the Jews were supposedly doing to non-Jews, despite being directly asked multiple times by numerous posters.
Click to expand...

Bad for Clayton...

ANTPogo said:
Your support of him and dismissal of what I wrote just shows how hypocritical and bankrupt your words really are.
Click to expand...

Dismissal? It is right there well write to anyone read and enjoy your fantastical intellectual dive into fictional allegations.
 
BaaBaa said:
I'm guessing that only a fuhrerbefehl, signed, notarized, witnessed and said signing photographed will satisfy them.
Click to expand...

It´ll have to list every single intended victim, and be signed by all of them as well. Ve iz ze Deutsches Reich, ve do zings ze bureaucratic vay.
 
I find it amazing that these people have lied so much and gotten away with it.

Excerpts from "The Black Book" - Electrocution Chamber and Electric Crematorium at Belzec, rivers of blood, jew bone powder used for construction, etc
Click to expand...

Glaring Evidence of the Farce that was the Nuremberg Trials - Soviet Prosecutors Convicted the Germans of the Katyn Forest Massacre

Of course, the Soviets actually committed the massacre at Katyn, although they did not admit it until 1990.

At Nuremberg, the Soviets also "convicted" the Germans of mass extermination of Jews (and others) at the internment camps in Germany. Years later, even historians and Holohoax propagandists had to admit that no "gassings" or mass exterminations took place in the German camps on German soil, and the story shifted to the German camps in Poland (which the Soviets controlled, and where little to no investigation into the claims was allowed).

The following is an excerpt from "An Introduction to Holocaust Revisionism" by Tom Moran, an excellent article/primer, even for those not new to Holocaust™ revisionism.
Click to expand...
 
SnakeTongue said:
Cited examples?

You have being evading an simple question:

What is the correct claim?

You have show that after several posts you were not able to define the correct claim and did not even provided one single reference...

Prove me wrong.

What is the right claim?
Click to expand...
The "claim" that you will find if you look in, for example, Hilberg - and your nearly insane questioning about an obvious point, obvious to anyone who has even basic familiarity with the Holocaust, is half amusing and half annoying - is that over 5 million Jews were exterminated by the National Socialists and some of their allies - approximately 3 million of these in camps, with about 2.6 million of these victims killed by gassing; approximately 1.4 million in organized shooting actions; and about 0.7 million in ghettos by starvation, aggravated disease, shootings, etc. (Compared to these numbers, a very small number of POWs and Poles were put to death by the National Socialists in gas chambers.)

I don't know of a single person claiming that millions of political prisoners were put to death by gas. Nor do you. You wrote something exaggerated and dramatic, probably for effect, and your comment was stupid, and for whatever reason, you have refused to say "oops" now for weeks. Silly.

You didn't answer my question about why you and other revisionists so frequently distort what people write.

SnakeTongue said:
Secondary references and your personal discussion is not primary evidence.
Click to expand...
This, of course, is not what I said: I said that throughout this thread I had cited (and discussed) many primary sources. I mentioned the Jaeger report as an example. Despite your rather vacuous yellow highlighting, the Jaeger report and Sakowicz's diary, which meshes with it, are primary sources - they are neither my discussion nor secondary sources.

Seriously, can you not read?

SnakeTongue said:
Pictures of bodies being cremated do not prove the bodies were gassed.
Click to expand...
What makes you think I presented these photos as proof of people's being gassed? You didn't ask for proof of gassing, you asked,
Why is so difficult to find a picture or a video of German workers taking dead bodies out of a supposed gas chamber? Where is footages showing German workers carrying dead bodies to a crematorium?
Click to expand...
I posted the closest match to your question known. Your question was stupid, because German workers didn't dispose of dead bodies at the death camps - members of the Jewish Sonderkommando and burial teams did.

SnakeTongue said:
I do not pretend to have any debate with you about secondary evidence...
Click to expand...
Your loss. Very good researchers have looked at this material and have interesting and useful things to say about it. I have seen that you are not above cribbing from revisionists, however. Beautiful. But, again, you are seem not to be grasping the very simple point that the Jaeger report is not a secondary but a primary source. Had you looked it up, or reviewed some posts in this thread, you might have spared yourself making such an ignorant comment. But there is no accounting, is there?

SnakeTongue said:
I made you a question... You are evading with another question.
Click to expand...
Actually, no, I am not. Your question was almost incomprehensible, so, to try to understand it, I asked if you meant what I thought you meant.
 
Last edited:
SnakeTongue said:
I dug from you fairy tale.
Click to expand...

Then you wouldn't mind quoting the specific parts of my post that talked about "all Jews belong[ing] to a specific group of innocent people, with no influence whatsoever on the German daily life during the 30's and the 40's, hiding peaceful in their homes, with no will to commit crimes or engage in political disputes."

You just forgot to provide the references to explain the persecution of the non-Jews and their fate in the supposedly mass extermination plan...
Click to expand...

They're not only there in the Wiki pages, they've been discussed (with you, no less!) right here in this thread, and you were even given the main source about why the Nazis did what they did to the Jews: Hitler's own writings on the subject.

Bad for Clayton...
Click to expand...

Which, strangely, doesn't stop you from hurling invective at me while giving him a complete pass on his failure to back up his claims.

Dismissal? It is right there well write to anyone read and enjoy your fantastical intellectual dive into fictional allegations.
Click to expand...

What, exactly, in my post is "fictional"? The emancipation laws? The Nuremberg Laws? The Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service? The Ahenpass? The events of Kristallnacht?

Please be as specific as you can when referencing what I wrote, with as much supporting evidence as possible.
 
ANTPogo said:
No, not a forgery.

Because his actual assignment of duties was not as separate as his extremely brief 1945 statement implies. He was in II D the entire time, and while with Heydrich in Prague he divided his time between there and Berlin, so he could carry out his other duties.

As Rauff himself later stated in his deposition in Chile,

Heydrich was assassinated in June 1942, by the way, for comparison with the timeline given in the 1945 statement.
Click to expand...

No, he was not.

The transcript you provided when compared with the affidavit is a simple demonstration of your misinterpretation:

Period 1

I now became head of division II D at the RSHA. In this division all technical matters were regulated. The division II D (technology) consisted of 6 or 7 sections. (...)
Click to expand...

I was chief of this technical section from February 1940 until March 1940.
Click to expand...

Period 2

When Heydrich went to Prague as a Protector I accompanied him there to organize the local news network. During this time I often traveled between Berlin and Prague.
Click to expand...

(...) From September 1941 to May 1942 I was in Prague.
Click to expand...

Period 3

I was head of division until several months after the death of Heydrich. Thereafter I was sent to an assignment in Africa with Rommel.
Click to expand...

I then became chief of the section again from May 1942 to June 1942.
Click to expand...

The period 2 demonstrate that Walter Rauff was not chief of the section and travelled to to Berlin as subordinate of Reinhard Heydrich.

Your are using a misinterpretation from period 2 to explain why Walter Rauff "was not as separate as his extremely brief 1945 statement implies", therefore creating a deceptive explanation.

ANTPogo said:
Because the doctor at Mauthausen was not in charge of the construction and operation of the gas vans, while Rauff's Amt II D was. Rauff did indeed defer to the garrison doctor about areas that were the doctor's responsibility (the "procedure" talked about in the attachment), but since the procurement, equipment, and assignment of the gas vans were the technical department's responsibility, Amt II D (meaning Rauff and Pradel) handled that.
Click to expand...

A explanation with no sound evidence...

The garrison doctor have nothing to do with Walter Rauff.

Garrison Doctor

The SS Standortarzt [garrison doctor], who was officially independent of the camp commandant and answerable directly to the SS Economic and Administrative Office, was responsible for hygiene and the medical aspects of the camp.
Click to expand...

http://en.mauthausen-memorial.at/

Amt III (Deutsche Lebensgebiete – SD-Inland): Chef SS-Standartenführer Otto Ohlendorf
Click to expand...

http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichssicherheitshauptamt#section_2

Walter Rauff

I was the chief of the Section under which were included such divisions as

(1) Ammunition
(2) Telephone
(3) Telegraph
(4) Radio
(5) All Trucks.

This group was known as II D
Click to expand...

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp

II D (Technische Angelegenheiten): SS-Obersturmbannführer Walter Rauff
Click to expand...

http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichssicherheitshauptamt#section_2

ANTPogo said:
Because a) Pradel was indeed a Captain before he was promoted to Major, and was actually a Captain for most of the time Rauff dealt with him personally, b) the statement was made long after Rauff had left II D and stopped dealing with Pradel at all (much less on a direct basis), and c) as a high-ranking RSHA department head, Rauff did not have to sit a typewriter himself and type up his own letters, but instead had secretaries to do that for him and who were responsible for making sure everyone was correctly addressed (that's what the "im Auftrag" at the bottom of the letter means, you know).
Click to expand...

But you did not provided one single document which directly prove the promotion from captain to major...

ANTPogo said:
At any rate, what does any of this have to do with your utter failure to answer my question about Rauff's "incomplete" office code. Especially since you didn't object back in your "analysis" that Rauff's office code shouldn't have been II D at all, but merely claimed that it should have been II D [something]. Which is rather odd, in light of your claimed knowledge of the matter which you say allowed you to perform your "analysis".

So, in addition to answering my question that you're still avoiding, I'd like you to explain this discrepancy in your claims.
Click to expand...

It is a forgery... Just a quick comparison with official documents from the Third Reich demonstrate that sending code is completely wrong.

ANTPogo said:
Plus, since you apparently accept Rauff's 1945 statement, this means you agree (as Rauff himself does in that statement) that his section, section II D, built and operated gas vans, that Pradel was involved in the construction and operation of the vans, and that the letter from Dr. Becker about their murderous use is entirely genuine, right?

Right, SnakeTongue?
Click to expand...

Wrong.

Because X use information from Y, it does not mean X agree with all Y.
 
dafydd said:
On all fours with the wild claim that Hitler killed millions of political prisoners. I suppose that is true if you call being Jewish a political crime.
Click to expand...
Probably. POWs too, no doubt. And by gas, no less. He implied as much at some point. SnakeTongue is not exactly precise in his explanations.

PS - Here is what SnakeTongue said to wriggle out of his claim:
By the way, you are supporting a "special pleading" for the Jews and ignoring all other kind of prisoners which were part of the concentration camps. Different from you, I do not give the Jews this special treatment, which is typically supported by Holocaust proponents.

There was indeed concentration camps, but not only for Jews.

How would you call the prisoners persecuted by a political party?

Race prisoners?

Religious prisoners?

Sexual prisoners?

The accusation against the Third Reich is made on the base that existed a policy for mass extermination of different kinds of people:
Click to expand...
and then:
Feel free to prove your "special pleading" in favour of the supposed mass extermination of Jews...

I stand on the point where mass extermination did not happened against any kind of political prisoner.
Click to expand...
My reply is @ http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8128006&postcount=10209

SnakeTongue's line of thought is too stupid for words.
 
Last edited:
ANTPogo said:
(Pretending)

(Pretending)

(Pretending) and during the period SnakeTongue is trying to pretend that Rauff had nothing to do with II D (and so ostensibly could not have written the March 1942 letter).

(Pretending)

(Pretending)
Click to expand...

Yet, not one single reference to a primary evidence to support your fictional explanation for a forgery.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
Merged General Holocaust denial discussion Part IV
44 45 46 47 48
Replies
955
Views
226K
Pacal
Pacal
EtienneSC
Bombing of civilian targets in WWII (split from Gen. Holocaust denial discussion)
2 3
Replies
52
Views
9K
Degeneve
D
M
  • Locked
General Holocaust denial discussion Part III
177 178 179 180 181
Replies
4K
Views
510K
kmortis
kmortis
JayUtah
Merged Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion Part II
39 40 41 42 43
Replies
847
Views
156K
halleyscomet
halleyscomet
K
  • Locked
Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread
509 510 511 512 513
Replies
10K
Views
782K
Loss Leader
Loss Leader

Back
Top Bottom