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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Multivac said:
That must have taken some balls! Any idea how he managed to avoid joining the party? I would have thought it would be mandatory.
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Most of the sites I can find are in german a language I can read but I doubt most the deniers here can
 
LemmyCaution said:
Why on earth, just because you haven't been paying attention and/or are trolling, should I repeat what I've written on this forum in the past about Spielberg (okay, I will reiterate that I detested Schindler's List and haven't paid much attention to the rest) and Wiesel (okay, I haven't read his books, just some opeds, which I found cloying, and I rarely see him cited in proper works of history, I don't like him at all)?

Wiesenthal I have no opinion about, as neither he nor his center's work have played a role in the formation of my views on the Holocaust.

Why do you pay so much attention to side shows and have so little knowledge or clue of the work historians have done?

Why did I reply to a lazy and silly bit of trolling?

Sigh.
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Sigh.

In other words, no matter those liars are the vanguard that communicates the Holocaust to the non Jewish of the world.

That blind acceptance by and demanded of non Jewish people by champions of the Holocaust such as yourself is as dangerous as the agendas that are enabled by it.

The Holocaust has become armor for EVIL.
 
LemmyCaution said:
I am guessing - and hoping - that it's okay to stick with Roberto!
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Of course.

One more comment regarding digs:

In the blog Mass Graves at Sobibor – 10th Update I wrote the following:

At this point I felt tempted to dig a deep hole and see if I came upon further bone fragments or other remains. I didn't do so because I didn't have the required permission, but I think this is definitely what should be done, in the context of current endeavors by the Sobibor Archaeological Project and its competitors at University of Hartford to document this Nazi extermination camp and fight Holocaust denial by archaeological means.

For what can be a more effective means to fight "Revisionism" than bringing the contents of the mass graves to the surface, having the human cremation remains analyzed by a forensic expert to certify that they are human remains, quantifying them as precisely as possible, and thoroughly documenting with reports, photographs and video clips every step of the process, ever single core sample, every layer of human ashes and every human bone, bone fragment and tooth that is found?

And what can be less effective in this context than an archaeological reconstruction of the Sobibor extermination camp that does not include a detailed and thorough investigation and documentation of the contents of the Sobibor mass graves?

As I already said in my previous update, the former would be a deadly blow to "Revisionism". The latter, on the other hand, would be much hard work not worth the effort.
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When I told Berg that I would love to dig at Sobibór I meant every word I said. It would be even better, though, to make a film of Berg digging and getting ever greener in the face the more human ashes and bone fragments his shovel brings to the surface. When we get to bottom layers of bodies in wax-fat transformation, Berg will probably get sick, as I'm told happened to some of Prof. Kola's students during the core drilling investigation in 2001.

Question to my fellow posters: who of you would sign a request that archaeologists at Sobibór be allowed to excavate at least one of the mass graves known to contain both cremation remains and whole bodies to the very bottom, exhume the bodies and have them examined by forensic pathologists? I would send such request to Yoram Haimi, who is leading the current archaeological work at Sobibór (a nice chap, we've talked on Skype many times), and ask him to forward it to Rabbi Schudrich, who is supervising the archaeological work at Sobibór to make sure that religious laws are complied with. The request would require the input of someone familiar with Jewish burial laws, in order to present arguments why an exception from the prohibition to touch the remains should be granted in this case (e.g. suggesting that the bodies be reburied after examination in the same place or in a Jewish cemetery with the proper rites). And at least one hundred signatures, preferably with some scholarly or otherwise famous names among them.

Father Desbois was allowed to excavate the mass graves at Busk, so this request is probably not a hopeless undertaking.
 
This archealogical dig thing does not divert at all from the moutnains of HARD evidence for the FACT that the holocaust happened, this is just nit picking leading to nothing to sustain a fantasy absurdist postion based on thin air.
 
Clayton Moore said:
In other words, no matter those liars are the vanguard that communicates the Holocaust to the non Jewish of the world.
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No, those are no one's words but yours, little clayton.
Clayton Moore said:
That blind acceptance by and demanded of non Jewish people by champions of the Holocaust such as yourself is as dangerous as the agendas that are enabled by it.
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No, we actively encourage you to read up on the matter, using something other than denier sites as you do.

But for some reason, you avoid cracking a book as if it was a vaccine or something...
Clayton Moore said:
The Holocaust has become armor for EVIL.
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The Holocaust is what it has always been, your visceral need to believe otherwise to validate your hate notwithstanding.
 
Multivac said:
Do you actually believe this crap, or do you just post crap like this to wind people up? This is a genuine question as I really don't understand how you could believe this nonsense.
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He honestly does, best I can tell. As a hypothetical troll, he's a terrible one; all he earns is contempt, and only rarely actual anger. Unless he's a really good troll who is excellent at pretending to be a neocon-hating nutjob who pretends-poorly-to be reasonable and logical but is actually just incredulous.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Sigh.

In other words....QUOTE]

You do realise those "other words" don't actually bare any resemblance to words, sentiment, or statement Lemmy made? Perhaps we should stick to words people actually use. Or are you happy for me to replace your posts with "other words" for example...


Clayton Moore said:
What's your opinion of Wiesel the liar.
What's your opinion of Spielberg the liar.
What's your opinion of Wiesenthal the liar.
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In other words you have no argument against actual research and fact into the subject so wish to highlight persons whose opinion are of little or no interest to the academic standing.


Ooh, this is fun. Of course I could have as easily have written "In other words you wont crack open a book and have chosen to debate if pink or purple unicorns fart better smelling rainbows" and still have about as much relevance as your "other words" did to the post you quoted.
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One thing I have been wondering about of late is why we don't have a recommended reading list of literature about the Holocaust. People like Nessie might benefit from that. We might even ask to have it stickied.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Clayton Moore said:
Sigh.

In other words....QUOTE]

You do realise those "other words" don't actually bare any resemblance to words, sentiment, or statement Lemmy made? Perhaps we should stick to words people actually use. Or are you happy for me to replace your posts with "other words" for example...




In other words you have no argument against actual research and fact into the subject so wish to highlight persons whose opinion are of little or no interest to the academic standing.


Ooh, this is fun. Of course I could have as easily have written "In other words you wont crack open a book and have chosen to debate if pink or purple unicorns fart better smelling rainbows" and still have about as much relevance as your "other words" did to the post you quoted.
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A book?
Provide a book that invalidates http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/
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Clayton Moore said:
Provide a book that invalidates http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/
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You really didn't get the point of my post did you? About the invalid nature of applying "other words" that bare no semblance to the actual words used?

Okies.

But you know what, if you want to prove me wrong and start debating with an informed opinin instead of just an opinion, try some of the more accessible titles. Then you might actually bring something relative to the discussion. These should give you some broad insight into the various interpretations of the evidence, that go beyond Deny Deny Deny videos.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gw1cJC0D4qYC&hl=en&dq=Auschwitz

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ved=0CEAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Auschwitz&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...a=X&ei=lTHrT6emIYPR0QWrn-zvBQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=holocaust evidence&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=holocaust evidence&f=false

One question that does spring to mind, why do you seem to suggest that books, and one assumes scholarly texts, journals, peer reviews, etc, could not invalidate a webpage with ill informed videos on? Are you under the impression that is a higher form of media?
 
Tomtomkent said:
You really didn't get the point of my post did you? About the invalid nature of applying "other words" that bare no semblance to the actual words used?

Okies.

But you know what, if you want to prove me wrong and start debating with an informed opinin instead of just an opinion, try some of the more accessible titles. Then you might actually bring something relative to the discussion. These should give you some broad insight into the various interpretations of the evidence, that go beyond Deny Deny Deny videos.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gw1cJC0D4qYC&hl=en&dq=Auschwitz

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ved=0CEAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Auschwitz&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...a=X&ei=lTHrT6emIYPR0QWrn-zvBQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=holocaust evidence&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=holocaust evidence&f=false

One question that does spring to mind, why do you seem to suggest that books, and one assumes scholarly texts, journals, peer reviews, etc, could not invalidate a webpage with ill informed videos on? Are you under the impression that is a higher form of media?
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None of the Holocaust champions will discuss the video.

Stuffing 2000 naked people into a gas chamber? How long would that take?

15 ONE person ovens to cremate 2000 people? How long would that take?

Dragging 2000 gas contaminated bodies out of the gas chambers? How long would that take?

Cleaning out the gas chambers? How long would that take?
 
”TSR” said:
”Charles Traynor” said:
Steven Spielberg is a proven liar with a history of making and producing Holohoax propaganda movies.
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Speaking of emotionally laden trolling...
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Was Spielberg's The Liberators eventually withdrawn from public sale because it was shown to be full of propaganda lies?

YES or NO?
 
Question for Dead Nazi Promo Team:
Do you understand the difference between popular media and academic writing?
 
Moss said:
Question for Dead Nazi Promo Team:
Do you understand the difference between popular media and academic writing?
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Was Spielberg’s The Liberators withdrawn from public sale because:

A. It was full of lies?
B. It had become a lightning rod for bad publicity?
 
I am no ways in contention with the accepted understanding of Sobibor as defined by the sum of all its convergent parts. Even if Archaeological techniques were not used, History would still have the correct definition that Sobibor was an AR extermination camp. Despite the assorted repetitive Internut bleatings of those who against all sane and respectful judgement variously ; want, need or have to, claim mindlessly otherwise.

The arguments of the Revisionists who have mumbled against any existent Archaeological investigation reports carried out at these camps are completely and utterly absurd. Archaeologists do not produce fraudulent site data. It would be a very strange world if that indeed was the case. Only in crank Revisionism is it so. For those not familiar with the Archaeological situation there is more of an introduction here:

http://www.presentpasts.info/article/view/pp.12/2
 
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Clayton Moore said:
None of the Holocaust champions will discuss the video.
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Some of us don't / can't do youtube. Why don't you tell us what you find so compelling about this video, and be prepared to support it?
Clayton Moore said:
Stuffing 2000 naked people into a gas chamber? How long would that take?
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Would depend on which gas chamber was under discussion, would it not? Which one, and your evidence that anyone credible claimed 2000 people?
Clayton Moore said:
15 ONE person ovens to cremate 2000 people? How long would that take?
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As well, who has claimed that the Nazis only ever burned one body at a time, regardless of how that oven was *meant* to be used.

It is well known, for example, that at Auschwitz, multiple bodies were burned in a single muffle -- and the next bodies were introduced before the last ones were fully consumed.
Clayton Moore said:
Dragging 2000 gas contaminated bodies out of the gas chambers? How long would that take?
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"Contaminated" in what way?
Clayton Moore said:
Cleaning out the gas chambers? How long would that take?
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Again, it would depend on the gas chamber involved, but getting the bodies out and the chamber cleaned was not the bottleneck: the ovens were.
 
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