Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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Robrob said:
Out of idle curiosity, I checked your link. In it you actually claim:



You do understand simple inertia and fabric tension would make a jacket hem (or similar object) flex and straighten, regardless of gravity?
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You are going to be sorry.

This guy makes wild claims all the time and you are at risk of getting sucked in. Stop now while you can.
 
Robrob said:
You do understand simple inertia and fabric tension would make a jacket hem (or similar object) flex and straighten, regardless of gravity?
Click to expand...


No, I don't think he understands that. Of course, a knowledge of physics is not common in Apollo deniers.
 
Hey, David/rocky/FatFreddy88/cosmored...

Here is your wall of links, reposted for you at no charge, which I also reposted by reference on BAUT and on Apollohoax. (See my post 8312 here for details.)

Now, how about post 8374? Please read the entire post carefully, and think about it before answering - this time, without any canned answers.

In particular, as I am aware of all the references you have posted so many times here - and that I have gone to the trouble of repeating for you on other boards and here in this very post - I would greatly appreciate an original answer consisting of your thoughts without any links to your canned earlier responses.

Are you able to do that? Can you set aside your fear and reflexive denial long enough to really think about it?


By the way, you've said you're in Madrid, so I guess you're not far at all from Fresnedillas, are you?
 
For the love of whomever believes whatever, Mythbusters did an ENTIRE episode related to moon landing conspiracies, They tackled the flag flutter issue, the jumping issue and the moon reflection issue using I forget what, but if two men with 15 years of special effects experience each can't drive the nail into this group of theories' coffins, then who the hell will?
 
skepteen314 said:
For the love of whomever believes whatever, Mythbusters did an ENTIRE episode related to moon landing conspiracies, They tackled the flag flutter issue, the jumping issue and the moon reflection issue using I forget what, but if two men with 15 years of special effects experience each can't drive the nail into this group of theories' coffins, then who the hell will?
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The nail was hammered in long before the Myth Busters ever did that episode (that was still a fun episode to watch), from what I gather. Willful ignorance will never die, sadly.
 
For the love of whomever believes whatever, Mythbusters did an ENTIRE episode related to moon landing conspiracies, They tackled the flag flutter issue, the jumping issue and the moon reflection issue using I forget what, but if two men with 15 years of special effects experience each can't drive the nail into this group of theories' coffins, then who the hell will?
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The people who did those MythBuster episodes knew the moon missions were faked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ajIVmGiQE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

Those episodes are examples of sophistry.

They did find one error made by hoax-believers though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAcXBT-GZCo

Hoax-believers have made a few errors but their finding this error doesn't make the other proof go away.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
The people who did those MythBuster episodes knew the moon missions were faked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ajIVmGiQE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

Those episodes are examples of sophistry.

They did find one error made by hoax-believers though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAcXBT-GZCo

Hoax-believers have made a few errors but their finding this error doesn't make the other proof go away.
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Which is longer FF, the list of people who know the landings were fake or the list of those who don't?

If you are to be believed in all your claims it would seem that 90% of the world knows it was fake.
 
jaydeehess said:
Which is longer FF, the list of people who know the landings were fake or the list of those who don't?

If you are to be believed in all your claims it would seem that 90% of the world knows it was fake.
Click to expand...

In his world EVERYBODY knows it was faked. That's what extreme paranoia does to a person.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
The people who did those MythBuster episodes knew the moon missions were faked.
Click to expand...

The missions are fake.
The moon is fake.
We are fake.

You're just a brain in a jar.

You keep receiving these messages so you don't get lonely.

So, hi, and how's the imaginary weather we're making you imagine you see?
 
jaydeehess said:
Which is longer FF, the list of people who know the landings were fake or the list of those who don't?

If you are to be believed in all your claims it would seem that 90% of the world knows it was fake.
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He's explicitly stated before that he believes people like JayUtah, who are actually in a position to know the truth of the Apollo missions, really do "know" that they were faked and are deliberately lying. It's the moon hoax taken to the extreme; anyone who denies the "twoof" actually does secretly believe in it, they're just deliberately lying to keep up the front.
 
Out of idle curiosity, I checked your link. In it you actually claim:



You do understand simple inertia and fabric tension would make a jacket hem (or similar object) flex and straighten, regardless of gravity?
Click to expand...
Here's the issue he's referring to.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8033032&postcount=1

If the fabric were stiff enough to cause that kind of tension, the simple upward movement would not cause it to bend. If the explanation for the downward movement were fabric tension, there would be some movements that were not consistent with gravity. All of the movements of the corner of Collins' jacket are one hundred percent consistent with gravity. That can only happen in gravity.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
All of the movements of the corner of Collins' jacket are one hundred percent consistent with gravity. That can only happen in gravity.
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Sorry, I'm calling you out on that one. You're confusing correlation and causation. Gravity does cause movement effects that are 100% consistent with gravity, but it is not necessarily true that all effects 100% consistent with gravity are caused by gravity. You get to prove that one. We'll wait.
 
Excuse me, DavidC/rocky/FatFreddy88/cosmored, but I'd really like to get an original answer.

First, just to make sure it stays fresh and accessible to all participants, here is your wall of links, reposted for you at no charge, which I also reposted by reference on BAUT and on Apollohoax. (See my post 8312 here for details.)

Now, how about post 8374? Please read the entire post carefully, and think about it before answering - this time, without any canned answers - the questions asked therein.

In particular, as I am aware of all the references you have posted so many times here - and that I have gone to the trouble of repeating for you on other boards and here in this very post - I would greatly appreciate an original answer consisting of your reasoned and detailed response without any links to your canned earlier responses.

Are you able to do that? Can you set aside your fear and reflexive denial long enough to really think about it?


By the way, you've said you're in Madrid, so I guess you're not far at all from Fresnedillas, are you?
 
sts60 said:
Excuse me, DavidC/rocky/FatFreddy88/cosmored, but I'd really like to get an original answer.

First, just to make sure it stays fresh and accessible to all participants, here is your wall of links, reposted for you at no charge, which I also reposted by reference on BAUT and on Apollohoax. (See my post 8312 here for details.)

Now, how about post 8374? Please read the entire post carefully, and think about it before answering - this time, without any canned answers - the questions asked therein.

In particular, as I am aware of all the references you have posted so many times here - and that I have gone to the trouble of repeating for you on other boards and here in this very post - I would greatly appreciate an original answer consisting of your reasoned and detailed response without any links to your canned earlier responses.

Are you able to do that? Can you set aside your fear and reflexive denial long enough to really think about it?


By the way, you've said you're in Madrid, so I guess you're not far at all from Fresnedillas, are you?
Click to expand...

An original answer without a canned response? I don't think his programming is capable of that. I've long suspected he is really just a computer program designed to give canned responses on various internet forums. I've asked him about that multiple times before and its never been denied or even acknowledged. Maybe it isn't in its programming to acknowledge it?
 
You're confusing correlation and causation. Gravity does cause movement effects that are 100% consistent with gravity, but it is not necessarily true that all effects 100% consistent with gravity are caused by gravity.
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Theoretically that's true, but not in a case as clear as this one. Do you agree that the movement of Collins' jacket corner is one hundred percent consistent with gravity in this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fqdB1b53jc
(00:52 time mark)

If you don't, could you explain the parts that aren't? I can't see any difference between the movement of Collins' jacket corner and this guy's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTNGNW5Evs4
(00:14 time mark)

Those two environments look identical and very different from these two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofwzby1c7o
(3:17 time mark)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TejsnPThmd4

Betamax tried to use that argument to obfuscate the buoyant safety cables in the Chinese spacewalk sayng it was "Shape memory"..
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8139186&postcount=7954
(click on bottom link)

The only time the safety cables bent was when it was one hundred percent consistent with the buoyance explanation.

Sorry that the viewers have to follow so many links to see the info but my hands are tied.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8142390&postcount=7988

I'm not allowed to post the direct link.

First, just to make sure it stays fresh and accessible to all participants, here is your wall of links, reposted for you at no charge, which I also reposted by reference on BAUT and on Apollohoax. (See my post 8312 here for details.)

Now, how about post 8374? Please read the entire post carefully, and think about it before answering - this time, without any canned answers - the questions asked therein.
Click to expand...
You're just trying to divert the discussion away from the clear hoax proof that I post. I already dealt with one of the issues you mentioned and you keep asking the same thing.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8253414&postcount=8364

It's hardly worth it to stay here and discuss things with you people anyway as you pretty much discredited yourselves when you agreed with Jay Windley when he gave this response...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8144391&postcount=7990

...to this issue.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8135606&postcount=7907

That issue is so basic that sophistry is ineffective. All you can do is try to fill up the thread and bury it to reduce the number of people who see it. Thwarting your efforts to do that is the main reason I stay here.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
All you can do is try to fill up the thread and bury it to reduce the number of people who see it. Thwarting your efforts to do that is the main reason I stay here.
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What is it about NO ONE AGREES WITH YOU that you do not understand??

The number of people who witness your garbage is irrelevant...each and every one disagree with you.


If your only purpose here is to have an audience that agrees with you, then stop now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

....or....


Continue misrepresenting what people think, and you WILL be "called" on it.



...again...so you remember....NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
The people who did those MythBuster episodes knew the moon missions were faked.
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What a ridiculous statement...why would you take such an untenable position??


Seriously, if you really think that anyone here can take you seriously, after you LIE about something as easily "checkable" as this, then you are only "fooling" yourself.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Do you agree that the movement of Collins' jacket corner is one hundred percent consistent with gravity in this clip?
Click to expand...

No one here agrees with that nonsense, understand?


If you don't, could you explain the parts that aren't?
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why should we have to prove you wrong about establish historical FACT....don't be foolish.


I can't see any difference between the movement of Collins' jacket corner and this guy's.
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How is what "you see" relevant"? Your bias not only betrays you, it invalidates any conclusions you come up with.


Those two environments look identical and very different from these two.
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Same as above...no one cares what you think.



Sorry that the viewers have to follow so many links...
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what in the world makes you think that anyone here is bothering to follow your NUMEROUS links? I have better things to do withn my time than look at ignorant youtube ivds.



You're just trying to divert the discussion away from the clear hoax proof that I post.
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Sour grapes from a sore loser



I already dealt with one of the issues you mentioned and you keep asking the same thing.
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Please don't perpetuate your lies...we all know what the issues are, and you have FAILED to "deal" with any of them.


It's hardly worth it to stay here and discuss things with you people anyway as you pretty much discredited yourselves...
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Obviously you do not understand the meaning of that word, "discredit", since the only one it applies to is YOU.


All you can do is try to fill up the thread and bury it to reduce the number of people who see it.
Click to expand...

If ya want, we can invite all sorts of people....and to a person, they will not agree with you.

Is that really what you want?
 
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JayUtah said:
That would make it self-aware, and I don't see any signs of self-awareness in FF88's posts.
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He just doesn't seem to process information in a rational manner. He's been repeatedly told that no one agrees with him, yet he continues to appeal to those same people as if they do agree with him.

He needs to get a "clue"....unfortunately, I don't see that happening.



aside...actually HB's of ff's persuasion are the simplest to "debunk" as they bring absolutely NOTHING "to the table".

Congratualtions, freddy...you "debunk" yourself. :D
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Hoax-believers have made a few errors but their finding this error doesn't make the other proof go away.
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Out of curiosity, if "a few errors" doesn't invalidate your claim then why would "a few errors" invalidate the "official story?"
:confused:
 
Hoax beleivers have made a host of basic sicentific errors which totally undermines thier position.
 
Dcdrac said:
Hoax beleivers have made a host of basic sicentific errors which totally undermines thier position.
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That's probably because most of them wouldn't recognise a physics text book even if it was right in front of them with a huge arrow pointing to it, and the words "Physics text book" printed in large friendly letters on the front cover.

Also, of course, most of them are simply talking out of their arse!
 
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Erock said:
Says it all:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NkijOFUnu0

FF88 is totally obsessed with this and is simply trolling or incapable of seeing things that turn his mad world view back to normal.
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I am simply not going to bother replying to that spammer and his ridiculous links. The video above tears apart the "Jacket" drivel - the opening line really does encapsulate what is going on.

If his post is moved to Abandon All Hope, he'll go running off to spurstalk to complain to people there who as far as I can see, think he is a picnic short of a picnic.:D
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Be sure to look at the comment section of BetaMax's video.
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=5NkijOFUnu0

It's pretty clear that he doesn't even believe his own arguments. He also destroyed his credibility by trying to obfuscate the clear proof that the Chinese spacewalk was faked.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8139186&postcount=7954
(click on bottom link)
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That's what you see in the comment section? Really? Because that's not what everyone else sees.

Are you a computer program designed to spam forums with your links and canned responses? Are you even able to acknowledge this question?
 
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FF88 admits he doesn't need to address the actual claims because he isn't obligated to pay attention to anyone who agrees with me. I interpret the last half of his lengthy post to mean that his sole purpose here is to continue link spamming in order to keep up the proportion of pro-hoax posts. Since he hasn't posted anything new in several weeks, I consider that ample evidence of the intent I attribute to him.
 
FatFreddy88 said:
Sorry that the viewers have to follow so many links to see the info but my hands are tied.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8142390&postcount=7988
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Fortunately for you, I keep your Great Wall of Links fresh and handy for the viewers by constantly reposting direct hyperlinks to it, such as I I did on BAUT and on Apollohoax - both of which you had confidently claimed couldn't happen. (Also, here is you disagreeing with MythBusters, and here and here is your stuff about jackets and Chinese and other things.)

FatFreddy88 said:
You're just trying to divert the discussion away from the clear hoax proof that I post. I already dealt with one of the issues you mentioned and you keep asking the same thing.
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First, this is manifestly false, as I keep posting your links for you.

Second, you didn't answer any of the questions; you just posted links to links, without any real explanation.

Third, you completely disregarded my request for an original answer without any links to your canned replies. Are you at all capable of an original answer?

Finally, you completely failed to address the central point of post 8374, which I will restate for you as follows:


rocky/FatFreddy88/DavidC/cosmored, although your posting behavior is characteristic of a paid disinformation agent - according to your oft-cited criteria - I have done you the courtesy of believing that you really believe what you say. In fact, I stated for the record that I do not believe you are a "paid disinformation agent".

I have also stood up for you against people who have accused you of sock-puppetry (even though you then directly claimed registering a sock-puppet at BAUT).

I have also stood up for you against a number of people who said you were a troll. I think, as manifestly wrong as you are, that you really believe this stuff you endlessly repost, even the sources that contradict each other.

And after all that, you can't do me even the most basic courtesy of accepting that I actually might believe what I say? Even if you are sure I'm wrong?

Why is that - in your original words, without links to your canned responses? What does that tell you about your beliefs, and your need to protect them? Can you come out of your shell long enough to think about that?

What are you afraid of?


P.S. You've previously said you live in Madrid. So you're not far at all from Fresnedillas, are you?

P.P.S. Here are all your links, again, and MythBusters and jackets and Chinese, etc.. You're welcome.
 
And after all that, you can't do me even the most basic courtesy of accepting that I actually might believe what I say? Even if you are sure I'm wrong?
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There are some anomalies that are simply too clear to obfuscate and you maintain they aren't anomalies.

The tip of Collins' jacket corner is not being held down by the bottle on his chest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fqdB1b53jc
(00:52 time mark)

It bends when it goes from side to side as he jogs in place so we know it's not stiff. There is no identifiable force making it stay down and behave in a way that's one hundred percent consistent with its being in strong gravity execpt the gravity explanation. Betamax's contention that the bottle is keeping it there is clearly wrong.

Then, there's the flag anomaly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
(2:30 time mark)

MythBusters tried to obfuscate this but ended up confirming it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00


There is a point at which things are so clear that sophistry becomes ineffective and those two anomalies are well beyond that point. Normal intelligent objective people simply know that footage was faked as soon as they see it. The ones who go into denial because they're experiencing cognitive dissonance usually slink away. Those are such clear anomalies that anyone who says they're not anomalies and continuously argues that they're not can't believe what he or she is saying. The only people you might be swaying with your attitudes are viewers who don't take the time to look at the videos; some of them may be swayed by rhetoric.

Jay Windley has refused to even address those anomalies as he knows that anyone who tries to obfuscate them will just end up looking silly. It's better to duck the issue and try to bury it deep in the thread to at least reduce the number of people who see it and then go on as if nothing had happened.

You also maintain that the Chinese spacwalk was real which totally discredits all of you (see post #8506). You also agreed with Jay Windley when he said this...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8144391&postcount=7990

...in response to this.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8135606&postcount=7907

You can pretend all you want but none of you has any credibility.

I keep telling you what I think of your poll and the fact that there are about twenty posters here who don't agree with me. Here's the quote from post #8364.
You people keep repeating this because you know my sincere answer might get me banned. I won't say it directly. I'll post this and you can try to infer my answer from it.
http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums...pic.php?t=1222
(excerpt)
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Planting of provocateurs (and sleeper agents, etc.). These people will vary from the posters who suddenly show up one day under an alias attacking regular posters, to people who seem like regular posters themselves. They may work in teams, supporting each other and giving the illusion of popular support on the net. (Remember, net IDs are basically free, and one person can have many.)
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You know I'm not going to risk getting banned by clearly stating what I think is going on here on this thead so you'll just have to infer what I think from the above as I'm taking a risk just by posting that; I don't dare go beyond that and you know it.

Let's hear Jay Windley's rebuttal to my rebuttal to BetaMax's analysis of Collins' swinging jacket corner.
 
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