The plans of God

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MRC_Hans said:
I don't like the picture this gives me. What were they doing with that horse?? :covereyes

Hans
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Don't play.

Here after the meeting they had were he asked them directly, then this.
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
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Told directly by God??? And yes I meant disciples.
Your boy is wrong Paul.
 
edge said:
Don't play.

Here after the meeting they had were he asked them directly, then this.

Told directly by God??? And yes I meant disciples.
Your boy is wrong Paul.
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Nope, your bible has so many holes in its stories the name for it is almost right, it should be.

The Holely Bible.


You do know that no one that wrote the stories knew Jesus, if there was such a man.



Also there are a lot of different bibles, and of course, to you, you know which is the right one with all your years of bible study at college.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
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edge said:
Don't play.

Here after the meeting they had were he asked them directly, then this.

Told directly by God??? And yes I meant disciples.
Your boy is wrong Paul.
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I'll play as I please (within the MA, of course ;)).

You keep quoting from that particular work of fiction. It gets boring, read something else, and quote from that, for a change. I recommend the Lord of the Rings; it is longer than the Bible, at least as consistent, and a good deal more entertaining.

Yes, I'm being blunt, but you have thoroughly asked for it.

Hans
 
edge said:
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad.
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You do not need any God in order to be able to do good things and avoid bad things, if you simply define bad and good in terms of the most basic principles, that enable complex creatures to be challenged by a given realm without derived into abstract or physical complexity's reduction.

This ability is the natural property of developed complex creatures, and the refinement of this ability is naturally accelerated by self-aware complex creatures, which are deeply aware of their actual relations with their common environment, whether it is changeable and subjective or invariant and objective.

The simple goal is to enliven the Unity among the subjective and the objective, which leads to an entropic-free, contradictions'-free organic realm, which is free from complexity's reduction.

So simply use your natural responsibility instead of seeking after God's plans.
 
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doronshadmi said:
You do not need any God in order to be able to do good things and avoid bad things, if you simply define bad and good in terms of the most basic principles, that enable complex creatures to be challenged by a given realm without derived into abstract or physical complexity's reduction.

This ability is the natural property of developed complex creatures, and the refinement of this ability is naturally accelerated by self-aware complex creatures, which are deeply aware of their actual relations with their common environment, whether it is changeable and subjective or invariant and objective.

The simple goal is to enliven the Unity among the subjective and the objective, which leads to an entropic-free, contradictions'-free organic realm, which is free from complexity's reduction.

So simply use your natural responsibility instead of seeking after God's plans.
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Sure sometimes you don't need god...Till you can't change, as in the addict whose last hope and chance to change is accepting God and asking for help as demonstrated by many who have gone that way...an answer is given and that is help from above as described by many.
It not about good or bad sometimes it's about bondage by something that is powerful.
Your thoughts work in a perfect world but we know how people are taken by their needs and wants.
When people try all those ways you describe and fail isn't it odd that the way of Christ saves so many in need, not everyone but many confess it sincerely and testify that no other way worked?
I have used my will to end a bad habit in the past, so it can be done logically.
There are those though that find nothing else will work.
 
Paulhoff said:
Nope, your bible has so many holes in its stories the name for it is almost right, it should be.

The Holely Bible.


You do know that no one that wrote the stories knew Jesus, if there was such a man.



Also there are a lot of different bibles, and of course, to you, you know which is the right one with all your years of bible study at college.


Paul


:) :) :)
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Your friend in that U-Tube was wrong and lied, don't dance around and bring in the whole Bible, answer to what we were talking about.
One thing at a time and why would he have to lie if your case is so solid?
 
MRC_Hans said:
I'll play as I please (within the MA, of course ;)).

You keep quoting from that particular work of fiction. It gets boring, read something else, and quote from that, for a change. I recommend the Lord of the Rings; it is longer than the Bible, at least as consistent, and a good deal more entertaining.

Yes, I'm being blunt, but you have thoroughly asked for it.

Hans
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Yes it gets boring when you think you know it all and find out you really don't.
There are many works that I read, along with the one you metion, and fiction is great. I'll tell you what... start a Lord of the Rings thread, there you go now, off with you.
 
edge said:
[I][COLOR="DarkRed"]Sure sometimes you don't need god...Till you can't change, as in the addict whose last hope and chance to change is accepting God and asking for help as demonstrated by many who have gone that way...an answer is given and that is help from above as described by many.
It not about good or bad sometimes it's about bondage by something that is powerful.
Your thoughts work in a perfect world but we know how people are taken by their needs and wants.
When people try all those ways you describe and fail isn't it odd that the way of Christ saves so many in need, not everyone but many confess it sincerely and testify that no other way worked?
I have used my will to end a bad habit in the past, so it can be done logically.
There are those though that find nothing else will work.[/COLOR][/I]
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So your god sometimes helps some people and not others, exactly the way random chance works.

What are the objective markers that you, or anyone, would see to know whether it was a god's doing or random chance?
 
edge said:
Yes it gets boring when you think you know it all and find out you really don't.There are many works that I read, along with the one you metion, and fiction is great. I'll tell you what... start a Lord of the Rings thread, there you go now, off with you.
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Where is that irony gif when you need it?
 
edge said:
Your friend in that U-Tube was wrong and lied, don't dance around and bring in the whole Bible, answer to what we were talking about.
One thing at a time and why would he have to lie if your case is so solid?
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Nope, he is not wrong at all. Also I don't cherry pick the bible, it is all in there, all the mess to be shown.

Also your god is just a pagan god, seeing that it needs blood and a human sacrifice to appease itself by having itself killed for itself.

And seeing that it makes the rules, that should tell you something about its nature. It isn't well at all, seeing that is can stop the whole thing and it doesn't.

Drop that idea of a god, it isn't a good one. In fact, drop the whole god idea altogether.

Did you know that the bible talks about other gods, I bet you don't.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
Over 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars just in the visable universe, and the planet count is much higher. And people think the god of the bible is the true story. Talk about being self centered.

There are no plans of the god of the bible, those plans are only those of the people that use that idea of a god to back their wants and try to give it credit by saying a god is behind it.

As said so well in the Wizard of Oz.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain".

That is your god edge, it is only some man belind the curtain. People only use "god" to give their wants credit, and it is a shame that so many follow men because of that lie and that goes for the ones in the bible too.





And look up the word 'humbug', it is a real word.



Paul


:) :) :)
 
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edge said:
Yes it gets boring when you think you know it all and find out you really don't.
There are many works that I read, along with the one you metion, and fiction is great.
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How do you distinguish fiction from non-fiction?

I'll tell you what... start a Lord of the Rings thread, there you go now, off with you.
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There is already one, but I like to talk to you, from time to time.

Hans
 
edge said:
Yes it gets boring when you think you know it all and find out you really don't.
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Boring, I'm not bored at all, I read real stuff, about real things, and have done it for over 50 plus years. I in no way think that I know it all, but I can tell what is real from what is "what I want it to be" and gods are only that.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
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edge said:
... I have used my will to end a bad habit in the past, so it can be done logically.
There are those though that find nothing else will work...
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Kudos for breaking a bad habit, edge!

From what you say, though, it sounds like those 'that find nothing else will work' are replacing one addiction with another.
 
edge said:
Sure sometimes you don't need god...Till you can't change, as in the addict whose last hope and chance to change is accepting God and asking for help as demonstrated by many who have gone that way...an answer is given and that is help from above as described by many.
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There are many things that can't currently be changed by us.

It does not mean that we have to believe in some God that will do the job for us instead of use our abilities to do the needed abstract and\or physical work in order to be able to change them in the near or far future.

Futhermore, in many religious scripts around the world there is a common principle which roughly says "No help we be given without your actual participation in order to overcome some problem".

So our actual participation is a fundamental principle in what you call "God's plans".

For example what to you think about God's plans and free will?

Don't you think that free will gives us hope? ("... bondage by something that is powerful" is a wrong answer, if you actually accept free will).
 
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Freewill under the bible god is a joke. Don't play his game and burn in hell forever. If anyone thinks that you have Freewill with those rules, then they are just kissing that god's ass and are telling it what they think it wants to hear.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
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Paulhoff said:
Freewill under the bible god is a joke.
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Freewill is a fundamental principle also under the bible.

The fear of the unknown etc. simply eliminated this fundamental principle during the years, by generations of believers that did not use it.
 
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doronshadmi said:
Freewill is a fundamental principle also under the bible.
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Freewill should not have any penalties. Seeing that there are with the bible's god, it is still a joke. The only reason to agree with that god's idea of Freewill is because of penalties.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
Freewill should not have any penalties.
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Freewill has results that can be considered as penalties if they block freewill.

For example if one uses his\her freewill in order to block others' freewill, a contradiction was made and punish is on its way (not by any God).
 
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doronshadmi said:
Freewill has results that can be considered as penalties if they block freewill.

For example if one uses his\her freewill in order to block others' freewill, a contradiction was made and punish is on the way.
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Let us make this simple, you have freewill to believe or not believe in the god of bible. If you do believe in that god, you have a shot at going to heaven even if you break other rules, if not, you will go to hell no matter how good you are as a person.

Please don't be too human and make this simple idea a mess.


Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
Let us make this simple, you have freewill to believe or not believe in the god of bible.
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God's bible fundamental principle is freewill.

Anyone that can't use freewill can't get the concept of God's bible.

Again, during the years this fundamental principle was eliminated by generations of believers that did not actually use it.

Belief is the first signature that you deal with something without actually using your freewill in order to really know it, so "...freewill to believe or not believe..." is not a freewill, exactly because you are stuck at the trivial level of Belief.
 
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doronshadmi said:
God's bible fundamental principle is freewill.

Anyone that can't use freewill can't get the concept of God's bible.
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What does use have to with concept.

There is no freewill, no one can do anything they want at anything.

Again, and no matter how you want to word it, if there are penalties, there is not freewill.

So, in the real world, there is no true freewill, and with the god of the bible there is no freewill.

Also the god of the bible is a very poor concept to begin with, its actions in the bible show it time and time again. Only fear makes people blind to it.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
What does use have to with concept.

There is no freewill, no one can do anything they want at anything.

Again, and no matter how you want to word it, if there are penalties, there is not freewill.

So, in the real world, there is no true freewill, and with the god of the bible there is no freewill.

Also the god of the bible is a very poor concept to begin with, its actions in the bible show it time and time again. Only fear makes people blind to it.


Paul


:) :) :)
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As I have already said, fear is one of the things that makes people blind to God's bible that its fundamental principle is freewill.

We are living in a realm that is developed according to the principles of freewill.

Freewill is not the lack of principles, on the contrary, freewill is the ability to influence on the diversity's developments of these principles during natural evolution, where natural selection and mutations are involved.

So the "punishment" of natural evolution is an inseparable factor of Freewill evolution.
 
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josh3623 said:
Before we say that God is good, first we have to define good...

What is Good?


"Body and beats I stain my sheets I don't even know why...
My girlfriend she's at the end she is starting to cry...
let me go on like a blister in the sun let me go on, Big Hands I know you're the One!"---Violent Femmes

Now that is some heavy philosophy.

Life is not easy...

But is it all worth it?

I know I am glad that I am here
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Define freewill. We all have a set of choices, but those choices will always be limited.

Lets stop arguing over semantics.


If we went to mars and saw a structure that looked like some sort of house. surrounded by other structures, and we saw some old broken down machines, couldn't we deduce that perhaps these structures were created by intelligent life?

In fact Exobiologists have proposed this model as a possible avenue for the discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life. Although we have yet to find anything like this on Mars.


What about the design of the universe, from the tiniest atom, up to a star or even an entire galaxy?

What design could be more complex than the physical universe, a design which we have barely even begun to understand?


And yet so many of you have dismissed the idea of an intelligent designer behind the physical design of the universe in protest of some book that was written thousands of years ago.




How you have been Duped... At least as much as those who actually believe those words written so long ago.



so I will ask one more time, of all you would be philosophers:


would somebody please:

Define Good
 
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josh3623 said:
Define freewill. We all have a set of choices, but those choices will always be limited.

Lets stop arguing over semantics.


If we went to mars and saw a structure that looked like some sort of house. surrounded by other structures, and we saw some old broken down machines, couldn't we deduce that perhaps these structures were created by intelligent life?

In fact Exobiologists have proposed this model as possible avenue for the discovery of life. Although we have yet to find anything like this on Mars.

[B][SIZE="5"]
What about the design of the universe, from the tiniest atom, up to a star or even an entire galaxy?[/SIZE][/B]
[B]
[SIZE="6"]What design could more complex than the physical universe, a design which we have barely even begun to understand?[/SIZE][/B]


[B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Blue"]And yet so many of you have dismissed the idea of an intelligent designer behind the physical design of the universe in protest of some ridiculous book that was written thousands of years ago.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]


[B][SIZE="6"]

How you have been Duped...[/SIZE][/B] At least as much as those who actually believe those words written so long ago.



so I will ask one more time, of all you would be philosophers:


would somebody please:

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="7"][B]Define Good[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
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Who designed the designer?
 
doronshadmi said:
As I have already said, fear is one of the things that makes people blind to God's bible that its fundamental principle is freewill.
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So why does the god of the bible use fear? Only because that god is manmade and shows that it is.

Freewill does not exist with the bible god, it is only his way, whatever that is today, seeing that it changes throughout the bible. And every fix it makes fails time and time again, and he blames us and not himself. Admitting to the many mistakes it has made, now that would be a good sign of a real god.


God's plans, if it doesn't work, kill it and blame it for its own mistakes.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
josh3623 said:
Define freewill. We all have a set of choices, but those choices will always be limited.

*snip*
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Cut out the large coloured fonts. It is bad nettiquette, and if you cannot get through without shouting, you have nothing important to say.

Now, try again, nicely, and somebody may answer you.

Hans
 
josh3623 said:
Define freewill. so I will ask one more time, of all you would be philosophers:


would somebody please:

Define Good
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Here you go Josh, From Wikipedia:
In religion, ethics, and philosophy, the dichotomy "good and evil" refers to the location on a linear spectrum of objects, desires, or behaviors, the
good direction being morally positive, and the evil direction morally negative. Good is a broad concept but it typically deals with an association with life, charity, continuity, happiness, love, prosperity and justice. Evil is typically associated with conscious and deliberate wrongdoing, discrimination designed to harm others, humiliation of people designed to diminish their psychological needs and dignity, destructiveness, and acts of unnecessary and/or indiscriminate violence.[1] The good and evil of a context represents a personal or subjective judgment, a societal norm, or either's claim to an absolute value related to the human nature or transcendent religious standard for that context.

The nature of goodness has been given many treatments; one is that the good is based on the natural love, bonding, and affection that begins at the earliest stages of personal development; another is that goodness is a product of knowing truth. Differing views also exist as to why evil might arise.
From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_and_evil
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..Freewill allows you a choice of which path to take.



pakeha said:
From what you say, though, it sounds like those 'that find nothing else will work' are replacing one addiction with another.
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Well if you call the hope of ending bad... an addiction, but yes there are extreams; good ones and bad ones, even then some return to bad habits.
 
MRC_Hans said:
[/COLOR]

How do you distinguish fiction from non-fiction?



There is already one, but I like to talk to you, from time to time.

Hans
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You distinguish it by understanding the circumstances in anything that you experience in reality which isn't fiction. As far as I know there is nothing in reality that isn't real except for fiction. But science fiction becomes science fact eventually. Fiction lies on that boarder, it exists but its contents are empty.
I was just playing with you before, you can stay.
 
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edge said:
..Freewill allows you a choice of which path to take.
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Not according to you:

edge said:
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad.
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Free will is completely incompatible with those ideas. Do you really not see that?
 
AdMan said:
Free will is completely incompatible with those ideas. Do you really not see that?
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Good luck with that, you can point to the door and tell them that is the way out, and they just keep walking into the walls and saying that it is you that can't see. :D


Paul


:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
Over 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars just in the visable universe, and the planet count is much higher. And people think the god of the bible is the true story. Talk about being self centered.

There are no plans of the god of the bible, those plans are only those of the people that use that idea of a god to back their wants and try to give it credit by saying a god is behind it.

As said so well in the Wizard of Oz.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain".

That is your god edge, it is only some man belind the curtain. People only use "god" to give their wants credit, and it is a shame that so many follow men because of that lie and that goes for the ones in the bible too.





And look up the word 'humbug', it is a real word.



Paul


:) :) :)
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Ok Scrooge, we understand, you don't see there being any God?
You seem like you're worried that if there is a God something might happen to you or something, something?
 
edge said:
Ok Scrooge, we understand, you don't see there being any God?
You seem like you're worried that if there is a God something might happen to you or something, something?
Click to expand...

God is a humbug.


Paul


:) :) :)


Have you looked up the word yet?
 
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