Bilbo on why molten metal is "relevant" evidence

fuelair said:
I'm sorry, but if I want to get factual information about metals and melting I want it from Thorin or Balin or some other dwarf, not a frikken Hobbit. Hobbits don't know jack about molten metal. The dwarves invented smelting and know stuff for all the metals from almost the time they are born!!!! Get real here!!!!!:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp
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This is a good point, and to my knowledge Bilbo has not addressed it.
 
egalicontrarian said:
Okay, I will stop making "Bilbo's blog" topics. But the problem is that the forum itself - for a newcomer like me - is full of literally thousands upon thousands of unhelpful posts. Are there places here where someone has distilled them into the most substantive posts?
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: like Bilbo's?

What happened to libraries?
Melted steel, and why 911 truth is full of BS - mostly a problem with reading comprehension, and willful ignorance. like Bilbo
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/canofficefirescauselargesteelcolumnsandb

Bilbo is into the tiny made up anomalies of 911 truth, lost in BS. He spreads lies about 911, and he has no clue.

links - secret ones
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=18

"The Obi-wan Kenobi of debunkers" –Stephen Lemons, Phoenix New Times

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/home

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/nist,femareports,911structuralengineerin


Bilbo is a tame 911 truther, he is into open loop posting of woo, not like these great ones.
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/semiliterateparanoiacswhofantasizeaboutt
 
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alienentity said:
Alrighty, here's a repost of that video just fyi. I edited it and screwed up the tag.

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jaydeehess said:
Interesting. egalicontrarian, has Bilbo managed to view this video and respond as to why it too shows yellow glowing liquid material flowing from the fire location?
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Any comments on this as yet? To my mind the video, showing yellow glowing droplets of material coming from a common utility pole transformer fire, completely and utterly debunks the idea that yellow glowing droplets of material are indicative of
- molten steel
- or if they are molten steel, that it is in any way unusual or indicative of malfeasance.
 
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egalicontrarian said:
Okay, I will stop making "Bilbo's blog" topics. But the problem is that the forum itself - for a newcomer like me - is full of literally thousands upon thousands of unhelpful posts. Are there places here where someone has distilled them into the most substantive posts?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VClvGENxc
The slag and junk glows and flows out with the melted Al, copper, and lead, out of the WTC. Not sure why Bilbo likes his fantasy, it is silly and disrespectful to post lies on an event where 19 murderers ended so many lives in a few hours. Flight 93 Passengers figure out 911 in minutes, making Bilbo one of the worse investigators, and lay person in the world. Searching for truth, posting lies.
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...489613181380497255&page=1&token=1387326418228
Posted links above, some from a lay person who can read and comprehend, for you and Bilbo, good luck.
 
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Axxman300 said:
beachnut and anyone else,

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the molten metal seen spewing from the 81st floor on the South Tower was likely lead for Fuji Bank's UPS room.

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2008/03/ups-all81esimo-piano-del-wtc2-si-il.html

It's in Italian but it can be translated.
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An English version of the full article that includes the 2008 update:

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

(And the author gently gave us permission to translate it to Spanish: http://11-septiembre.blogspot.com/2009/03/sai-en-el-piso-81-del-wtc.html)

Anyway, a key point:

A short-circuit of one or more batteries, caused for example by a falling metallic ceiling truss during a collapse, would trigger an electric arc which might have dramatic consequences due to the high currents involved.​
 
JSanderO said:
I don't think the images can be controlled for color, refraction, reflection and other sorts of atmospheric distortions. Water falls can look like flowing gold under some conditions. You can't reproduce the observation because you would need to use the same cameras, at similar distances with the sun at the same elevation, same atmospheric conditions... probably filmed from 1000' below the experiment.
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Which reminds me of an excellent fairy tale.
 
Axxman300 said:
beachnut and anyone else,

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the molten metal seen spewing from the 81st floor on the South Tower was likely lead for Fuji Bank's UPS room.

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2008/03/ups-all81esimo-piano-del-wtc2-si-il.html

It's in Italian but it can be translated.

Key is here:

Lead had a much lower melting temp, this UPS fact is often overlooked by debunkers and ignored by Troofers.

Anyway, though I should include it here.
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It's been mentioned in passing and explicitly several times but it rolls off truthers like water off a ducks back.
 
beachnut said:
: like Bilbo's?

What happened to libraries?
Melted steel, and why 911 truth is full of BS - mostly a problem with reading comprehension, and willful ignorance. like Bilbo
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/canofficefirescauselargesteelcolumnsandb

Bilbo is into the tiny made up anomalies of 911 truth, lost in BS. He spreads lies about 911, and he has no clue.

links - secret ones
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=18

"The Obi-wan Kenobi of debunkers" –Stephen Lemons, Phoenix New Times

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/home

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/nist,femareports,911structuralengineerin


Bilbo is a tame 911 truther, he is into open loop posting of woo, not like these great ones.
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/semiliterateparanoiacswhofantasizeaboutt
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Some are born to woo, others have woo thrust on them but the truly great ones invent their woo as they go along.
 
egalicontrarian said:
Bilbo has now replied:
http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/2013/12...howComment=1387391788558#c1975863316793365565
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He gish gallops away.

He thinks Jones did a peer review experiment. LOL, Jones peers are all 911 nuts. Wow, he is so stuck on the fraud, he can't see Jones is fraud.

Jones pours pure Al, it appears silvery. The Al was no pure in the WTC. Slag from the mixture would be like glowing stuff falling out the WTC. Bilbo can't do the simple thinking, using knowledge to defeat nuts who make fun of those murdered on 911 by making up lies that other people did 911. How nice your friend is, using strangers who lie, against science and knowledge.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/DSC_4805.jpg Bilbo does not know how to do research. If I was Bilbo and posted the junk he does, I would have studied it more - and figured out I had the nonsense side of 911.

Posting a legacy of woo - would love to see his grandkids discover Granddad was a CT nut. 12 years and Bilbo is 20 years behind.

We have to prove to him is silly support for idiots who can't do chemistry and reality is wrong? The burden of proof is on him, he has the lie, he has to prove he is not a liar. He is essentially the standard issue follower who refuses to think the himself.
 
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beachnut said:
He thinks Jones did a peer review experiment. LOL, Jones peers are all 911 nuts. Wow, he is so stuck on the fraud, he can't see Jones is fraud.
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Hi Beachnut. I've isolated the one part of your comment that might be subject to meaningful inquiry. I didn't see anywhere where Bilbo says that Jones did a peer-reviewed experiment. What do you have in mind? (For my part, I have suggested to Bilbo that it is strange to think that a non-peer-reviewed experiment could obligate scientists to do peer-reviewed ones.)
 
"Bilbo does not know how to do research. If I was Bilbo and posted the junk he does, I would have studied it more - and figured out I had the nonsense side of 911."

For the record, I partly agree with this. There are minimal conditions of lay research that Bilbo seems unwilling to perform. (And, oddly, he's been willing to correspond with people like Chomsky on 9/11 Truth, but not independent people in the relevant domains of expertise.)
 
egalicontrarian said:
Hi Beachnut. I've isolated the one part of your comment that might be subject to meaningful inquiry. I didn't see anywhere where Bilbo says that Jones did a peer-reviewed experiment. What do you have in mind? (For my part, I have suggested to Bilbo that it is strange to think that a non-peer-reviewed experiment could obligate scientists to do peer-reviewed ones.)
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I could make this concise, and fix meaning, etc, but I decided to use the same time Bilbo uses in his research, no time

He thinks Jones experiment is good enough, and he blindly follows his insane "expert".

He refers to the paper Jones does, implies, and now he needs someone to essentially do a peer review paper for him to retract his woo. And then, he will still demand more.

Waking up, defeating a delusion Bilbo has, is a self initiated fix. He has to see the light, he has to figure out the delusion himself. He is mixed up, and can't think right. I am not here to help him, he is too lazy to engage his brain and figure this out. He takes the word of a nut on 911, over his own knowledge which he lacks due to his complete gullibility. He googles it, he believers it because it matches the patterns in his brain, patterns that sound good, sound true, but it is an illusion, there is no substance.

He is like a lazy can't do kid.
One peer reviewed paper or clear experiment would do more to persuade me than what you've written, (Bilbo's proof of lazy)
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***

The paper Jones did was reviewed by his fellow nuts on 911. Paper don't matter, it is what is true, what is real. Bilbo can't comprehend truth, facts, and evidence.

Peer is from this statement of bilbo - ***
Not sure if he knows what I know about Jones paper, but bilbo wants more, is he too lazy to get up and do it? Yes

He has been exposed to Al (not pure) glowing, and he is still stuck with the liars who make up stuff about the murder of fellow humans at the hands of 19, not some inside job, but idiots who murder in the name of god for some spoiled Saudi, who can't do his own work, and is dead. Bilbo spreads lies out of ignorance.

I meant peer paper, Bilbo loves the personable Jones, making up lies about 911. I already know Al in an office mixed with cheap computer cased, computer drives, UPS (aka lead acid batteries) would glow and be like a firefall. I am an engineer, and I am not as good as laypeople at explain why Bilbo is a failed human on 911. He loves web sites of woo, one day he might mature and see the truth.

It is funny how Bilbo debunks himself quoting NIST.

He has seen real Al and slag, glowing, and fails to connect the dots. Willful ignorance.
 
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I just posted this on his blog. I have doubt that he'll allow it, so I'm reposting here FYI.

'Hi Bilbo,

Not sure whether you'll allow this comment or not.
Firstly, the video link was posted by me, not Jaydee at JREF.

But now I've visited your blog, I have a major problem with the title to this page 'Relevant Evidence of the WTC Collapses that NIST did Not Investigate: The Yellow Molten Metal'

That's because NIST DID investigate the molten material, starting on p 81 and ending on p 83 of NCSTAR 1-5

If you check the definition of the word 'investigate' you'll discover it means 'to examine, study, or inquire into systematically'

So by definition your blog title is false. I have a problem with that. If you start with a false premise or statement you are either not competent or you are not really carrying out an honest inquiry.

I don't know which it is at this point. Let's see if you have the guts to post this comment... we'll go from there.
I will copy this message at JREF so they can watch what happens.

I don't take kindly to liars or cowards.'
 
alienentity said:
I just posted this on his blog. I have doubt that he'll allow it, so I'm reposting here FYI.

'Hi Bilbo,

Not sure whether you'll allow this comment or not.
Firstly, the video link was posted by me, not Jaydee at JREF.

But now I've visited your blog, I have a major problem with the title to this page 'Relevant Evidence of the WTC Collapses that NIST did Not Investigate: The Yellow Molten Metal'

That's because NIST DID investigate the molten material, starting on p 81 and ending on p 83 of NCSTAR 1-5

If you check the definition of the word 'investigate' you'll discover it means 'to examine, study, or inquire into systematically'

So by definition your blog title is false. I have a problem with that. If you start with a false premise or statement you are either not competent or you are not really carrying out an honest inquiry.

I don't know which it is at this point. Let's see if you have the guts to post this comment... we'll go from there.
I will copy this message at JREF so they can watch what happens.

I don't take kindly to liars or cowards.'
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That sums it up, a good closure for the topic. Will Bilbo step up and stop the woo, or what.
 
egalicontrarian said:
Bilbo has now replied:
http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/2013/12...howComment=1387391788558#c1975863316793365565
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Actually he didn't instead he ignored the video and moved the goalposts.

He seems to now want a peer reviewed paper on what the effect of organic contamination is on the appearance of molten aluminum.
Given that the sole reason for doing such a study would be to debunk 911truth, and given that the vast bulk of the scientific/technical world could not care less about a fringe conspiracy world, its not too likely to ever have been done , or to be in the future.
 
jaydeehess said:
Actually he didn't instead he ignored the video and moved the goalposts.

He seems to now want a peer reviewed paper on what the effect of organic contamination is on the appearance of molten aluminum.
Given that the sole reason for doing such a study would be to debunk 911truth, and given that the vast bulk of the scientific/technical world could not care less about a fringe conspiracy world, its not too likely to ever have been done , or to be in the future.
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I'm not so sure about it not being too likely, I was just in a foundry 2 days ago and we were looking into possible causes of defects, and contamination of the metal could certainly be a factor. There are many foundries in the world, and lots of researchers interested in them.
 
LSSBB said:
I'm not so sure about it not being too likely, I was just in a foundry 2 days ago and we were looking into possible causes of defects, and contamination of the metal could certainly be a factor. There are many foundries in the world, and lots of researchers interested in them.
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So they would be interested in a calibrated, single purpose color monitoring device that could determine the type and/or level of contamination in a basically controlled environment?
 
http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/
Continuing my series of posts (see Example 1)on why laypersons should want a further investigation of 9/11, I come to the yellow molten metal pouring from the South Tower, shortly before its collapse.
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Should read.

"Continuing my series of posts on why laypersons should want a further investigation of 9/11. Why? Because of their ignornace."

He could save a lot of cut and paste.
 
I may have missed it but...

ozeco41 said:
Let them prove CD THEN we can listen to them explain what part the molten metal played.
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Where has this been addressed?

ETA: also, where has the possibility of very hot lead coming from the batteries of the UPS that was in that floor been addressed?
 
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IIRC, the "stream of molten metal" over which they seem to obsess so much lasted a matter of seconds during an hour long fire?

This is important, how?
 
Well I' m in for a bit on the ringbearer's blog. Not sure for how long as its like talking to a brick wall. Cannot understand why he cannot just acknowledge that the pole transformer fire video demonstrates the same dripping yellow material that the WTC2 video does. It simply and demonstrably disproves that this must be evidence of a thermite buyrn or that it has to be molten steel.

Don't know how long I will be able to take it chasing goal posts.
 
alienentity said:
I just posted this on his blog. I have doubt that he'll allow it, so I'm reposting here FYI.
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Bilbo has now replied (to both you, Jaydeehess, and myself). I think you'll find that if you don't insults Bilbo, he engages in a relatively reasonable and friendly manner.
 
egalicontrarian said:
Bilbo has now replied (to both you, Jaydeehess, and myself). I think you'll find that if you don't insults Bilbo, he engages in a relatively reasonable and friendly manner.
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He insults himself with the grade school mentality of spreading lies based on lies and hearsay.

http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/2013/12...howComment=1387391788558#c1975863316793365565
An example of failed education


Those are not replies, it is avoiding knowledge.

Who placed the devices used to cut steel with thermite, and why are zero pieces of steel cut with thermite on 911. aka, no evidence for Bilbo


He failed to read NIST, he is reading it now; makes his post dumber.

http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/ - Someone freely posting lies about 911. How nice is that?

He wants someone to do a new investigation because he can't figure out the ones already done.

Ironically, NIST did investigate the yellow stuff.

Building was on fire, yellow molten metal is from fire. Investigation complete.

No thermite damage to steel - investigation complete.

Don't insult him, he might get upset and gain knowledge. Treat him nice, so he thinks he can debate reality, and keep his fantasy.
 
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Hasn't that metal already been accounted for?

I thought the source of what looks like molten metal was a server room's lead-acid batteries from an uninterpretable power supply?

What are you saying it is?
 
There is that and the fact that several dozen tons of aluminum aircraft was chewed up and deposited in the building. Lead, however , would melt so very easily. I fare say that I could melt a small amount of lead with a disposdible cigarette lighter.
 
jaydeehess said:
There is that and the fact that several dozen tons of aluminum aircraft was chewed up and deposited in the building. Lead, however , would melt so very easily. I fare say that I could melt a small amount of lead with a disposdible cigarette lighter.
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Yep:

Lead melting point

622°F (328°C)

The hottest part of a standard butane lighter burns at 3,590.6 degrees Fahrenheit or 1,977 degrees Celsius.

Propane

Propane lighters burn at 1,200 to 1,700 degrees Celsius. Again the range in temperature depends on the make of the lighter.

Methane

Methane lighters burn at 900 to 1,500 degrees Celsius.
 
Color not molten steel

Whatever the falling molten (liquid) material was, we know it wasn’t liquid steel.

WTC2 Molten material video


“Continuing my series of posts (see Example 1)on why laypersons should want a further investigation of 9/11, I come to the yellow molten metal pouring from the South Tower, shortly before its collapse.”-Bilbo.

“In the videos of the molten metal falling from WTC2 just prior to its collapse, it appears consistently orange, not just orange in spots and certainly not silvery. “ – Steven Jones
http://stj911.org/jones/experiments_NIST_orange_glow_hypothesis.html

htchar1.gif

Color chart above from
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2009/02/debunking-molten-aluminium-flow-from.html

“Low-alloy carbon steel, such as A36 grade, contains about 0.05% sulfur and melts around 1,426–1,538 °C” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel

Yellow color ~1050 -1100 C, Orange color ~930-980 C
Liquid steel is a bright white color at => 1,426C and a solid at an orange, yellow color.
At [1:40min] and at [2:45 min] [

Whatever the falling molten (liquid) material was, we know it wasn’t liquid steel.
 
Bilbo can't has poor skills at comprehension, and has no clue what science is.

http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/2013/12/non-truther-expert-calls-yellow-molten.html

Eagar said melted aluminum interacting with anything would be a thermitic reaction. Bilbo has no clue it does not mean thermite was used. Bilbo does not use science, he makes up stuff based on ignorance.

This would contradict NIST's explanation that the yellow molten metal is a mixture of molten aluminum and burnt organic material. Mixing with something and reacting with something are completely different phenomena.
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Bilbo has no clue that melted aluminum mixing with stuff, is the thermitic in nature Eagar was talking about.
The reason 911 truth exists,
ignorance and gullibility.

A Professor of Materials Engineering and Engineering Systems says thermitic, and Bilbo jumps on it.
http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/2013/12/non-truther-expert-calls-yellow-molten.html

A gish gallop, due to Bilbo's lack of comprehension.

Bilbo will recycle his failed claims to eternity.

egalicontrarian said:
Here Bilbo explains why he thinks the molten metal is, even ... !
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egalicontrarian, by responding to Bilbo's wave of ignorance, you are taking his points seriously, and giving Bilbo's woo credibility that is not deserved. You are debating delusions from a idiot on 911 issues. Bilbo has fallen into the bottomless pit of 911 truth lies and BS. You coddle him, and think you can be nice, but you only give him credibility by debating his pathetic ignorance of all things he can't comprehend and he need a new investigation which he will not understand anyway.
You are afraid to call his ideas insane, and stupid. So you decide to chase his slow Gish Gallop. At this rate you will hit the recycle in a few years. 12 years of 911 truth lies, and now Bilbo is catching up to 2006, and he is diverging from the truth due to his incredibly wall of ignorance and lack of comprehension skills.
 
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egalicontrarian said:
Okay, I will stop making "Bilbo's blog" topics. But the problem is that the forum itself - for a newcomer like me - is full of literally thousands upon thousands of unhelpful posts. Are there places here where someone has distilled them into the most substantive posts?
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Yeah, unfortunately it happens that a lot of the people I know posting here routinely, including myself have been through these topics a thousand times and there've been many more where people feign curiosity only to boil down to the truther nonsense. So what ends up happening is on the rare times there is a new comer who's only now getting into the topic (with any level of genuine intent) is it's a rough intro.

As far as the molten steel/thermite stream idea. That "stream" pouring out of the tower would be more a curiosity than something substantive to warrant anything beyond that. The prima fascie that Ozeco deals with IMO applies to that...

I don't care much about wrestling with thermite implementation because well, nothing tells me beyond any reasonable doubt that it was there. The aftermath of the collapses didn't yield any failure mechanisms that could be attributed to cutting with heat... none. Firefighters and occupants were inside the building during the time that these supposed thermite cutters were operating, but non of the witness statements the TM can conjure have ever revealed anything that would point to thermite use. Nobody reported bright sparkles inside the buildings on their way out... none of the firefighters in the south tower who reached the impact zone reported anything like that (though they did clearly see fires on those floors).

Ozeco's explanation covers a bunch of other bases, but by and by... these guys can bring up whatever anomalies they want. But if they can't go beyond little pieces of curiosity and jump to substantive after 12 years... I'm not inclined to use time speculating and giving the theories the extra attention.

But if you have specific questions on any of this fire away. I don't feel like responding to Bilbo if it's you that's got the questions.... and you should be reasonably clear on what it is you're curious about if anything.
 
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IMHO, the continued obsession with "molten metal" in direct contradiction to the evidence and reality, smacks of religious dogma.

Thermite (of any variety) isn't an explosive, isn't used in controlled demolitions and is one of the least likely things you'd use to cut a girder (especially surreptitiously). For some unknown reason the movement has latched onto the magic buzz word "thermite" and now they have a tiger by the tail and can't let go. They have to defend it or their entire POV house of cards will collapse.
 
And the only reason "thermXte' is on the agenda is because S Jones was losing "market brand image" to Gage so he invented the thermXte ploy to re-invigorate his marketing tactics. Worked a bit - then he played the tactic again with nanothermXte and got another run.

But who won the battle for market prominence?

Jones or Gage?

;)
 
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