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Old 25th February 2021, 12:57 PM   #114
Sherkeu
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I can imagine you don't see how the lab could be the source when you build a straw man like this to argue with.

First, I said I don't know. I am just not ready to rule out the lab.

Second, the point about considering the Wuhan lab people and the WHO may not be reliable is where the 'face saving' comes in. It's why those reports are not absolutely reliable. Reliable? Possibly maybe even probably, but not irrefutable.
The more I read what certain scientists are saying in interviews, and in their papers, the more I am 'reading between the lines' of them being delicate with their working relationships in China.

It's a difficult position. China is an area where risk of pandemic is higher and the global scientists want access to collaborate and to protect the large investments already made (and their jobs too!). But you cannot be too critical or say anything that makes China look culpable or negligent or you get shut out.

Last February the CCP banned publication of anything causing "adverse social impacts" and scientists violating this order would be held accountable. Since then, all papers need approval at the highest level (excepting medical sharing). It's been a big clamp down on open communication.

Joint Prevention and Control Mechanism
(internal doc leaked to AP)

There is a reason the WHO team had such long negotiations about what they could see or have access to. Members of the team were chosen by Beijing. They also had to agree in advance to include China's own theories, such as imported frozen foods, as 'possible'. So they agree. The narrative is controlled. I could be critical of that, but they likely have no choice but to go along. You can either see what they want you to see, or see nothing at all.
(I saw all the monitoring and propaganda first hand while in Shanghai for a science competition in 2019. Even though I knew about it, to experience it was quite eye opening. Luckily, I traveled with friends who are Chinese so I had cultural "interpreters")

That's why I look more favorably at the papers pre-Covid or just at the beginning. Looking to WHO for unbiased information is just not possible in today's climate of science used as political posturing.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 25th February 2021 at 01:06 PM.
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