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Old 20th August 2015, 11:43 PM   #18
Robert Harris
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 867
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
They heard three, they only remember one.
That is untrue. They heard three and remembered three - a single, early shot and then two closely bunched shots at the end. Those were the only audible shots.

And there was no hysteria prior to the very end of the attack. Show me one person ducking or diving to the ground, prior to frame 285. Furthermore, none of the Secret Service agents did more than look around, prior to frame 285. Hill jumped within about one second following that shot. Before that, they heard nothing they believed was a gunshot.

Check out all the smiling faces in the Altgens photo, taken at the equivalent of frame 255, after YOUR theory alleges that two 130 decibel, high powered rifle shots have been fired. Look at Dave Powers grinning ear to ear.

http://jfkhistory.com/altgens.jpg

The early shots were fired from low caliber, suppressed weapons. The ones following 285 and 313, were hugely louder and provoked, clear startle reactions.

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The President of the United States is murdered right in front of them. They were there to see a parade, not scientific observation.
Strange, isn't it, that in all this "hysteria", there weren't people hearing 4 early shots and 2 at the end, or 3/3 or 6/2 etc. etc?

Don't you find it amazing that such a large consensus reported exactly the same pattern of 1/2?

And don't you find it even stranger that the reactions following 285 and 313 were a perfect match with their description of two closely bunched shots at the end?

http://jfkhistory.com/duckstwice.gif

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No. It explains why different people heard different things.
The fallacy in your statement is that you are claiming that all those witnesses were fooled by hearing an extra shot at the end, while ONLY hearing one at the beginning of the attack.

This wasn't "different people". It is the same people.

I have read every relevant WC testimony, and I could not find a single law enforcement professional, including police officers, Secret Service, Sheriff's deputies, and even Hwy patrolmen who were there that day, who testified or reported that they heard early shots that were closer together than the ones at the end.

Have you?

Obviously, they weren't fooled by echoes either. Most of them, who commented on the spacing of the shots, were in full agreement with the other witnesses and the people we see reacting in the limo.

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You've ignored the motorcycles, which were loud in 1963, and there were four of them right next to the President's car (2 on each side). The folks in the car would have been mostly unable to hear anything very well.
I did not ignore the motorcycles. This is from a recent post:

The only other alternative which has been suggested, is that the noise at 285 was a motorcycle backfiring. But the witnesses confirmed that this backfiring was heard repeatedly all throughout the motorcades, but no similar reactions can be seen, either prior to frame 285 in the Zapruder film, or during movies taken prior to the limo's arrival in Dealey Plaza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GleA2BHxGcM

In fact, reactions like those following frame 285, can ONLY be seen, following the fatal headshot at frame 313.

And finally, the HSCA confirmed that shots fired from Oswald's rifle, where much louder than motorcycle backfires. This is from their report,

All observers rated the rifle shots as very, very loud, and they were unable to understand how they could have been described as a firecracker or backfire..

We requested three motorcycles to be running during the test that would approximate the original listening conditions in Dealey Plaza. But the shots were so loud that any reasonable level of background noise woud have been low in comparison with the shots themselves.



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Except he didn't confess. This one has been repeatedly debunked as was his second "confession" to a guy who was also clearly lying.
That is flatly untrue. Post a verbatim citation, with source, please.

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Wait, what? A mob guy was in the best strip club in Dallas the night before the assassination?
Sigh... No sir. Ruby went to Campisi's place. Perhaps you were thinking of Jim Braden who also had connections to Marcello, who was at the Cabana hotel the night before the assassination, where Ruby was meeting with Lawrence Meyers, who the HSCA connected to David Ferrie.

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I'd be more shocked if he hadn't been there.
Did you mean that you would have been more shocked if Ruby hadn't been meeting with a Marcello lieutenant the night before the assassination? If so, we are in full agreement.

This is how Campisi was described in the PBS Frontline investigation:

In 1963, Sam and Joe Campisi were leading figures in the Dallas underworld. Jack knew the Campisis and had been seen with them on many occasions. The Campisis were lieutenants of Carlos Marcello, the Mafia boss who had reportedly talked of killing the President.

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I love this part of the failed argument, CTers make it sound suspicious that mafia guys frequented a high class strip club, and then go on to talk about being "mob experts".
The part that I don't love is when ridiculously improbable coincidences are claimed.

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Ruby is always described as a nightclub owner, but let's face it, the place was an upscale nudie bar. Ruby would have known lots of mob guys, he also knew a lot of Dallas PD. It's where you went to look at mostly naked women dance.
Ruby came to him, not visa versa, but I'm sure it will be no more difficult to fabricate that "coincidence" than the other.

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If Campisi visited him it was to see if he needed a lawyer, and to reinforce that Ruby was not to cut any deals with the Feds to get a lighter sentence. Then again they might just have been friends.
Well of course it was:-)

It was just a "coincidence" that Ruby was connecting with Marcello's boys immediately before and after the assassination, just like it was a "coincidence" that he was rubbing elbows with Jim Braden the night before, and with a guy in Chicago who called by David Ferrie.

If this were any other crime in history, we would be laughing at the concept that all this was a coincidence.
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