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Old 25th February 2021, 04:35 AM   #607
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,889
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Mostly because not enough of us want to. But that’s changing, slowly.
I can only tell you what arguments occur to me.
Sure. It sucks. Everywhere it has been attempted has seemed to lead to cults of personality and abject failure. Here’s what I do know: I’ve heard a lot about what socialism is not: it’s not the Nordic countries, it’s not the NHS, it’s not all the things that people who don’t get it have labeled “socialism.” But I’ve seen very little about what it actually is.

So all your stories about "textbook" socialism, communism, and Marxism are as made up as The Big Dog's stories about the Atheist Bible. That's what I thought. Even before Trump, the political system of the USA was a textbook example of cults of personality. Oh, the things that capitalism leads to ...

I’ve seen lots of countries that call themselves Communist, but I’ve also heard about how they aren’t really Communist -not really. They aren’t doing what Karl Marx wrote.

Tell us more about what Karl Marx wrote. There's gotta be textbooks, right?!

So, while I can’t be bothered to read any actual textbooks specifically about these ideas, I can read about history and other commentary and see that whatever has been labeled socialist or communist, isn’t really those things. Real-deal socialism/communism hasn’t actually been implemented in the real world. And the ersatz attempts at the ideology have either outright failed or had to scale back whatever real-deal Marxist/Maoist/Whoeverist (always associated with a particular writer or dictator) ideals they may have espoused to get them in power.

Yes, "writers" are very suspicious dudes. Tell us about "real-deal socialism/communism": What is that? You are the one who always wants to talk about that instead of the theme of this thread.

I think the original idea had something to do with Socialism being the next stage after Capitalism, then naturally evolving to the Utopia of Communism where there are no classes and everything is commonly owned. But it always ends up being a, as I said, cult of personality where the leader/party becomes the elite ruling class and everyone else is the working class -same thing as Capitalism, really but totally unsustainable. Capitalism has the distinction of being, at the very least, sustainable.

Cult of personality again. Interesting, coming from a guy who lives in a country that turns each and every election into a contest between different cults of personality with all of the personalities representing "the elite ruling class".
If there is one thing capitalism isn't, it's sustainable. It's an absurd statement, coming from a Texan.

Blah, blah, blah. You are really good at pointing out the flaws with Capitalism (and America, specifically) and you are really good at spouting terms; but, you are terrible at illustrating a viable alternative.

Thank you. Yes, I am good at pointing out the flaws of capitalism. You haven't seen me "illustrating a viable alternative." Why on Earth would I do that?!
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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