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Old 20th July 2015, 07:22 AM   #250
Darwin123
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I have a new argument pro NDE's:

According to current neuroscience many parts of the brain are involved in the experience of the tunnel, the light, the peaceful feeling, the words 'it's not your time yet' etcetera.
The verbal cortex, the occipital lobes etc. All must be involved.

Chances are low that the sequence of electric activity in the brain of hundreds of people are almost exactly the same in such a way that they have the same sort of experiences.
That is not true. The neural system of human beings have homologous patterns that express themselves as common patterns of brightness and shape in our ‘hallucinations’. The patterns seen in phosphenes are homologous in human beings, reflecting a common ancestry rather than an environmental analogy. By environmental analogy, I am including the possibility of supernatural manifestations.




Phosphenes have commonalities between human beings that are occasionally misinterpreted as supernatural occurrences.

http://psychedelic-information-theor...-Hallucination
‘Entoptic hallucination, geometric hallucinations, or phosphenes, are one of the most commonly reported visual effects of psychedelics. Phosphenes are a sensation of light caused by excitation of the retina by mechanical or electrical means. Pressure phosphenes can be created by applying pressure to the eyeballs through closed eyelids; flicker phosphenes are created in response to stroboscopic pulses of light; kinetic phosphenes are created in response to physical impact to the head, sometimes referred to as "seeing stars". (Fig. 1) Entoptic hallucinations are differentiated from eidetic (photographic) hallucinations in that they originate within the neural connections between the eye and cortex, as opposed to emerging within the cortex or midbrain. There is evidence that entoptic phosphene patterns have influenced human cultural and religious archetypes since 10,000 BCE.’


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=phosphenes
‘A phosphene is a phenomenon characterized by the experience of seeing light without light actually entering the eye. The word phosphene comes from the Greek words phos (light) and phainein (to show). Phosphenes that are induced by movement or sound are often associated with optic neuritis.’


http://www.math.uh.edu/~dynamics/reprints/papers/nc.pdf
‘What geometric visual hallucinations tell us about the visual cortex

One possible location for their origin is provided by fMRI studies of visual imagery which suggest that V1 is activated when human subjects are instructed to inspect the fine details of an imagined visual object (Miyashita, 1995). In 1928 Klu ̈ver (1966) organized such images into four groups called form constants: (I) tunnels and funnels, (II) spirals, (III) lattices, including honeycombs and triangles, and (IV) cobwebs, all of which contain repeated geometric structures. Figure 1 shows their appearance in the visual field. In 1979 Ermentrout & Cowan provided a first account of a theory of the generation of such form constants (Ermentrout & Cowan, 1979). Here we develop and elaborate this theory in light of the anatomical and physiological data which has accumulated since then.’

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....em-are-called/
‘A phosphene is characterized by perceiving some form of light when there is little or no light actually entering the eye, making it an entopic phenomenon (meaning the source of the phenomenon is within the eye itself). *Phosphenes are most commonly introduced by simply closing your eyes and rubbing them or*squeezing*them shut, tightly; *generally the harder you rub or squeeze, the more phosphenes you’ll see. *This pressure stimulates the cells of the retina and, thus, makes your brain think you are seeing light. *Specifically, Grüsser et al. demonstrated that pressure in the eye results in activation of retinal ganglion cells in a very similar way to how they activate as a response to light.
There are also several other ways phosphenes can be generated. *These include through: electrical stimulation; intense magnetic fields; hallucinogenic drugs (phosphenes not to be confused with*hallucinations, which are generated in the brain, not the eye); a blow to the head or a particularly severe sneeze where extra pressure is created in the eye on the retina and possible stimulation of*the visual cortex; low blood pressure, which can be experienced if you stand up really fast after you’ve been relaxing; exposure to radiation; meditation or extended visual sensory deprivation; various side effects from medical drugs; and certain diseases of the retina and nerves.’


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20091790
‘…Phosphene perception was associated with a differential pattern of TMS-evoked brain potentials that started 160-200 ms after stimulation and encompassed a wide array of posterior areas. This pattern was differentiated from the TMS-evoked potential after stimulation of a control site. These findings suggest that conscious phosphene perception is not a local phenomenon, but arises only after extensive recurrent processing.’

Of course, there are common patterns generated by physical processes in the eyes themselves. These are called entropic patterns. These are not always the same as phosphenes but they have commonalities in all human beings. Thus, they also get misinterpreted.

Take for example entropic patterns (phosphenes). If you squeeze your eyes shut, you will see all sorts of geometric shapes and flashes of light which are similar to what other people see when they squeeze their eyes shut. You will see many of the phenomena that OBE patients experience, yet they are internal signals. Many disturbances make us see ‘phosphenes’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entoptic_phenomenon
‘Entoptic phenomena (from Greek ἐντός "within" and ὀπτικός "visual") are visual effects whose source is within the eye itself. (Occasionally, these are called entopic phenomena, which is probably a typographical mistake.)
In Helmholtz's words; "Under suitable conditions light falling on the eye may render visible certain objects within the eye itself. These perceptions are called entoptical.” …
Yet, there is enough commonality between the main entoptic phenomena that their physical origin is now well-understood.’

Phosphenes has been shown by many experimental studies to have commonalities in human beings. Correlation with physical neural patterns have been demonstrated. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that commonalities between hallucinations in improbable. Factual information has been presented in this posts.

The chances are rather high that the sequence of electric activity in the brain of hundreds of people are almost exactly the same in such a way that they have the same sort of experiences. This has been shown by many experimental studies. Perhaps you want to refute any of the links I have posted.


I hope you address the fact that you are wrong rather than simply repeat the same false claim over and over again. Or ignoring the factual information that I have collected.

Rebutting the factual information with more facts would be alright. However, your intuition is not very reliable. I can not accept your opinions on the relative 'chances' as fact.
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