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 26th December 2017, 03:11 PM #275 MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 22,526 Originally Posted by Bjarne No, what make you think so. If motion is absolute, all observers are observing from the absolute frame. What else should they observe from? Quote: A and B cannot compare their ruler to each other, so long they are in different frames, - but we can easy understand they must be different, if 'C' (speed of light) is the "same" for both. We had have that discussion before. Simple thought experiment make that very logical and very clear. If motion is absolute, there is only one frame. You can always compare each observer. Don't you understand the implications of your own claims? Quote: because you cannot observe, but only use your brain. Nonsense. Quote: What do you mean ? This is not observation, but a conclution. You can only make conclusions if you have observations. Otherwise what you make is wild guesses. Quote: Off course not, because you cannot compare, its impossible, - still you can use you brain,..... thought experiments No. Thought experiments without observation is fiction. Quote: You still cannot observe that. You can either conclude A. That distance must have change B. The ruller must have change. "We" made the wrong choose Or (C) you can go with relativity, which adequately exlpains EVERY observation we have made so far. Quote: A thought Experiment ‘A’ live in the basement of a skyscraper, ‘B’ at the top of the same building. Both have measured the time it took a photon to travel 13 billion. from the very first star and to us.. But A’s clock (deeper in the gravitational field) is as we know ticking slower than B’s clock. B would argue that it took the photon one minute longer to reach us – than the time A has measured. Simply because B’s clock is ticking faster than the A’s clock. The difference is probably in reality less, but it means nothing , its the same point. We accept that the speed “c” is the same for both A and B. When both A and B know the time and speed, A and B can only conclude that either .... The distance to the star that emitted photon is significantly different, which is utopian, because the universe is not likely to change shape depending on the observer who observes a process . Otherwise, the conclusion can only be that A’s ruler (in the basement) must have changed (been longer) proportional to the time also been stretching, as a result of A’s watch is deeper in the gravitational field. Only by chosen the 2nd option A and B both can (logical) assert that ‘c’ is the same for both (even thou ‘c’ is not comparable the ‘same’..) By chosen that, - (the 2nd) most logical option, - hell will break lose in science.. No. The only difference they will observe is the time the photon takes to move from B to A. Their rulers are different, but so are their clocks, so they will observe the same distance (in theory; in practice, of course, they have no way of knowing when the photon was emitted). And another condition, just for your enlightenment: They cannot observe the same photon, but I'll accept they observe different photons that traveled together. Hans __________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.