Global warming discussion III

Status
Not open for further replies.
You didn't follow your post to the other thread to justify this remark but to me it quite clearly suggests a deception.
Do you hear what you are saying? It does indeed sound like there is deception, but it's not CT, they aren't hiding it.

It can't be a CT is it's not secret. It's in fact quite blatant.

In fact, several things that came up in the previous versions of this thread about temperature trends can no longer be supported by the NCDC data, because they changed it.

Not a little change, huge changes. And changes to the data that was collected since we looked at the data. They changed the data from last year. Well, not the data, that can't easily be changed, they changed how they show you the data.

They made it warmer. In total, it's the past that ends up cooler, and the present warmer.
 
The claims about bad readings in the past are often easily debunked. Because they are completely false.
For example, if you were studying the history of extreme heat in Chicago, you would find a slew of days in the late 1930s and early 1940s where the station currently at the Chicago O’Hare airport reported daily max temperatures above 45 degrees C (113 F). It turns out that, prior to the airport’s construction, the station now associated with the airport was on the top of a black roofed building closer to the city. This is a common occurrence for stations in the U.S., where many stations were moved from city cores to newly constructed airports or wastewater treatment plants in the 1940s.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/03/new-daily-temperature-dataset-from-berkeley/

Simply check the actual records, and you will find no record of any day that had a high of 113 in Chicago, from any weather station of any kind.

In fact, days over 100 are rare. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/21/the-hottest-day-ever-in-chicago/

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/27/hottest-days-ever-in-chicago-2/

The official records for O Hare (and Midway) don't even have the 30s or 40s listed, because there was no record from a station that did not exist. The cobbled together records show 109 as the hottest day, but the official record was 105. But Midway records start in 1948, which is obvious when you look at them.

Claiming that was because nobody knew how to set up a thermometer correctly is absurd. There are a dozen different records for the area, and they all show the same heat wave in 1934. What none of them show is any temperature over 110 ever. Much less 113.

This is the problem when people make things up, and don't provide any evidence, like we see from Zeke Hausfather and Robert Rohde on realclimate.

It's why one should be skeptical.

The official NWS show no days over 105 from O'hare, and only two from Midway, neither from before 1948 of course.
 
Last edited:
a total crock....you cannot support this claim as you've never been able to support you other bits of conspiracy records.
.
The factual data shows only four days in all the Chicago area records that were over 104 degrees. All of them confirmed by the other stations, and all during extreme heat waves.

Spouting nonsense about 113 degree readings is unscientific in the extreme. It is also insulting to all the people who worked to keep accurate records of temperatures and the past.
 
Well now we see where the climate war is r-j's. It's taking place in your mind where scientists make adjustments not to improve the accuracy of the data but to show warming where there is none. All done under the noses of all those scientific institutions. Are they in on it too or are they just stupid?
 
It's really easy to find the theory mentioned

Duh you are simply Googling for things that contain the words “climate” and “theory” and not bothering to read them to find out if they support your assertions of some “Theory of Global Warming. Once again they do not, if fact they suggest just the opposite, that climate change is a result not a theory.

I choose to learn from ignore actual scientists who publish and educate about climate, and models, and theory.
FTFY ;)
This blatant ignorance is surprising.
I note that you once again post the same images without bothering to answer the question I put to you regarding them. Here it is again along with the other questions I have noted you evading

“What do you find strange about Milankovitch cycles”

And

“Sunlight comes from cosmic cycles?”

I'll add one more to the list

"If those images somehow support your claim climate models are built on some "Theory of Global Warming" explain how.
 
It's sort of sad to discover how truly ignorant some people can be over climate science.

Do you not understand that the CO2 theory is the consensus theory of global warming? That the consensus models all use theoretical ideas to model climate? And the carbon dioxide theory is the basis of current climate science?

Are you really going to just keep repeating something with no evidence?

It's not very effective.
 
“What do you find strange about Milankovitch cycles”
I'm starting to think you actually don't realize you are committing the fallacy of a leading question. You have repeated your own made up idea so many times, it doesn't even resemble anything I ever even said, even in jest. I would explain it to you, but I actually think it won't matter.
 
What is up with this cosmic ray nonsense? Next thing you know, somebody will publish a paper that blames the changing sunlight from cosmic cycles for climate change.
It might be hard to grasp, but I was joking about the theory that the ice ages (climate change) are caused by changes in the way sunlight strikes the earth, based on "cosmic cycles", which is of course exactly what Milutin Milankovitch proposed. The cosmic cycles are explained here
There are three major components of the Earth's orbit about the sun that contribute to changes in our climate. First, the Earth's spin on its axis is wobbly, much like a spinning top that starts to wobble after it slows down. This wobble amounts to a variation of up to 23.5 degrees to either side of the axis. The amount of tilt in the Earth's rotation affects the amount of sunlight striking the different parts of the globe. The greater the tilt, the stronger the difference in seasons (i.e., more tilt equals sharper differences between summer and winter temperatures). The range of motion in the tilt (from left-of-center to right-of-center and back again) takes place over a period of 41,000 years. As a result of a wobble in the Earth's spin, the position of the Earth on its elliptical path changes, relative to the time of year. This phenomenon is called the precession of equinoxes. The cycle of equinox precession takes 23,000 years to complete. In the growth of continental ice sheets, summer temperatures are probably more important than winter.
http://culter.colorado.edu/~saelias/glacier.html
 
Simply check the actual records,

You don’t find them because error prone sites like the one mentioned get identified and removed. Something you insist is incorrect because it “cools the past”
The official records for O Hare (and Midway) don't even have the 30s or 40s listed, because there was no record from a station that did not exist.
Again, please read what you are quoting/posting. O’Hare airport was built in the 40’s, so of course you won’t find a temperature record for it before then. You just finished quoting a comment about the a nearby weather station before the airport was constructed

BTW the post in question was from the following guest contributors. Liek the regular contributors they are a very climate scientists you learn from ignore.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?as...ation=&as_ylo=&as_yhi=&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=temperature+author:"R+Rohde"&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
 
I'm starting to think you actually don't realize you are committing the fallacy of a leading question.

I asked you to explain your comment below, you have yet to do so. Recall you were arguing cosmic rays not changes in the distribution of Solar energy releasing sequestered CO2 is “the real” cause behind de-glaciations.
Now are you going to answer the question or not.
“What do you find strange about Milankovitch cycles”
People believe the strangest things.
During a highly elliptical orbit, the Earth would receive 20 to 30% higher sunlight intensity between its closest and furthest passes by Earth, "resulting in a substantially different climate from what we experience today," according to NASA.
The pull of every celestial body combines to create Earth's eccentricity, wobble, and tilt. These movements determine how our planet is positioned to receive sunlight and how much sunlight it can receive. Which of these is the dominant determiner of ice ages, however, is still not completely understood.
 
You don’t find them because error prone sites like the one mentioned get identified and removed.
Prove there is any weather station that ever reported 113 in Chicago. You won't find any that reported even 108, much less a string of 113 degree readings during the 30s heatwave. Their claim is ridiculous, and of course they offer no evidence. Because they have none.

You claim they "were removed", which is really out there. All the weather records from Chicago since the NWS began operations are still available.
Something you insist is incorrect because it “cools the past”
You just used a strawman again. I never said anything close to what you just said. You make things up.
You just finished quoting a comment about the a nearby weather station before the airport was constructed
So what? You are making no sense.
BTW the post in question was from the following guest contributors. Liek the regular contributors
It doesn't matter, they are both wrong and insulting to those who ran the weather offices in Chicago.

Sunlight comes from cosmic cycles? That's news.
An ordinary logical person would know what is meant.

If you say "at noon the sunlight is much more intense", nobody of sound mind thinks you mean the actual sun somehow changed it's output.

It's the same for changing sunlight from the cycles. It's the earth that changes, which changes when and how the same sunlight strikes the earth. Gosh, do I have to explain everything? I though this was a science forum. For adults.
 
It might be hard to grasp, but I was joking about the theory that the ice ages (climate change) are caused by changes in the way sunlight strikes the earth, based on "cosmic cycles", which is of course exactly what Milutin Milankovitch proposed. The cosmic cycles are explained here
http://culter.colorado.edu/~saelias/glacier.html

So you were calling the Earth’s orbit a “cosmic cycle”? Seems like n odd way to describe it, but that being the case how does the Earth’s orbit relate to your assertions about cosmic rays?

Other than your choice to call Milankovitch Cycles “cosmic” I see no connection whatsoever.
 
Let me restore the context. CapelD said
Sunlight comes from cosmic cycles? That's news.
and my response to him was
People believe the strangest things.

That's what it means when you quote somebody, and respond. It's a response to what is above the text, not what follows.

So I was joking that CapelD actually thought sunlight "came" from cosmic cycles. Which is a strange thing to say.

Obviously the changes in sunlight from cosmic cycles, a well known theory, is what I originally was joking about. I was sure everybody actually realized this, and you were just being annoying. Now I am not so sure.
 
What is AGW? By this, what do you mean when you use the term? Many sources have been supplied showing scientists discussing the theory, under various names. It's not that hard to read the actual scientific papers discussing the theory, and why it is a theory.
Asking for definitions and clear scientific explanations of a subject is considered, by you, to be hard to understand. How unscientific.
Clearly you are talking about the CO2 theory, or AGW. Refusing to discuss what you yourself mention is evasion. Or worse, giving conflicting explanations.
Obviously it is, it is even used in books, like The Discovery of Global Warming. The author
Spencer R. Weart is certainly a scientists, and beyond the smear efforts of lesser men.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1212&pictureid=9067[/qimg]
When you say "basic definitions", definitions of what? Will you admit there is a theory? And discuss it?
The evidence clearly shows you are wrong. It's called the CO2 theory, the greenhouse theory of climate change, (Science magazine), or AGW, global warming, or basic global warming theory, or the The theory of climate change involving CO2 variations, or simply the theory of global warming http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/view.php?id=28449http://sites.wff.nasa.gov/code250/docs/PFRR_EIS/FINAL - Volume I Individual Files/Ch 8 Glossary.pdf
Oops, there it is, in black and white. In a glossary from NASA.
I've never stated that increasing CO2 isn't the basis of global warming. But you are evading once again, What is the theory? You can't have it both ways, saying there is no theory, and also saying you don't have to educate about the theory. This started when I pointed out that the theory predicts the most warming in NH winters, at high latitudes, and this is what the climate models are programmed to show. Several people denied this, then started saying there was no theory.
A fallacy. If you use a term, and can't define it, or explain it, or show evidence to support it, it's not science.

More evasion. I'm not asking because I don't know, I am asking to see if you know.
The issue is not my understanding, it was the objections to talking about the global warming theory, that climate models are based on, the consensus view.
Your evasion isn't working. The paper I quoted clearly states several facts,
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/1/014007
The objections (or denial if you will) were about several things.

Everybody knows that. So what? The denial was over the theory, including denial there even is a theory.
So you say. Obviously, just saying something has very little weight. In this case, none at all.

So we have multiple answers, but none of them are about the theory. The one that the models use, the one that indeed makes predictions about how warming from AGW will happen.

It's quite interesting.

several people including me have explain to you in great detail how AGW works. it has been explained to you how the CO2 is getting into the air and how the Co2 molecules react when IR radiation hits them. and this several times over the past year.
yet somehow you were not able to understand any of it, and you still dont get it. its pretty sad to see.
and as you pointed out, this is a science forum for grown ups. this forum is evidently too complicated to you. maybe you should start your journey into science on a much easier topic that is not so complicated and that is not confusing you so much. you would then maybe make some progress.

its amazing even little children understand it, but you somehow not. sad.

 
Last edited:
Ah, I see. My pun about the orbital and polar changes of the earth being "cosmic cycles" went right over your head. It was a joke. About how odd things can sound at first. Like claiming the earths climate changes because the entire planet changes how it revolves around the sun, how it revolves around it's own axis, how much it is tilted, and these changes cause the ice ages.

That theory certainly wasn't a big hit at first.
 
Prove there is any weather station that ever reported 113 in Chicago.

To review. Two actively publishing climate scientists who work with this very data have indicated the presence of this weather station. You called them liars. Now you want us to go though the raw data to prove to you they are not?

Sorry, no. It’s your assertion they are lying and it's up to you to prove.
 
several people including me have explain to you in great detail how AGW works.
The questions have always been about what are the predictions of the AGW theory. Claiming there is no theory is hardly an answer.

Claiming it is too complicated to explain in a couple of paragraphs is no answer.

Saying "go read the IPCC report" isn't an answer.

Claiming it's a made up term isn't an answer.

The original discussion started when somebody disputed that the consensus that AGW predicts the most warming during the boreal winters. The entire sidetrack came after that, when the ignorant insisted their wasn't even a theory.
 
Do you hear what you are saying? It does indeed sound like there is deception, but it's not CT, they aren't hiding it.

It can't be a CT is it's not secret. It's in fact quite blatant.

In fact, several things that came up in the previous versions of this thread about temperature trends can no longer be supported by the NCDC data, because they changed it.

Not a little change, huge changes. And changes to the data that was collected since we looked at the data. They changed the data from last year. Well, not the data, that can't easily be changed, they changed how they show you the data.

They made it warmer. In total, it's the past that ends up cooler, and the present warmer.

reminds me of the claim you made about that data, which i then proved wrong using your own source, and you never ever replied to it anymore.... as always, as soon your myths and lies get debunked you ignore them and then start your rutine all over again. must be frustrating that nobody falls for your woo you try to spread in this science forum..... telling.
 
Last edited:
The questions have always been about what are the predictions of the AGW theory. Claiming there is no theory is hardly an answer.

Claiming it is too complicated to explain in a couple of paragraphs is no answer.

Saying "go read the IPCC report" isn't an answer.

Claiming it's a made up term isn't an answer.

The original discussion started when somebody disputed that the consensus that AGW predicts the most warming during the boreal winters. The entire sidetrack came after that, when the ignorant insisted their wasn't even a theory.

as i said, several people have explained to you in great details, you simply ignore it. it makes no sense to explain it agina to you, you will simply ignore it and later lie about it.
 
Obviously the changes in sunlight from cosmic cycles, a well known theory, is what I originally was joking about.

If you were just "joking" when you brought up Milankovitch Cycles and called them “cosmic” where exactly do you support you assertions wrt to cosmic rays impact on the Earth’s climate? Are you now prepared to admit there does not appear to be any connection between cosmic rays and the earth’s climate?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom