Global warming discussion III

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh dear, I think the problem is on your end.


me:The NWS official records
you: Answer the question.
me: I did
you: No, I demand you link me directly to all the data you looked at.
me: If you don't know how to check the NWS official data, just say so.
you: What is the source you looked at.
me: I already told you
you: no you didn't.
(repeat forever)

Since there is only one place to get the official data in question, the real issue would be what data are the Yahoos using when they make that woo woo claim? And how could they be so completely wrong?

It's even more obvious when you know a little Chicago history. The Yahoos claim the data from the University in the 30's and early 40's was artificially hotter, and that the move to O'Hare caused a cooling bias.

The factual story is the reverse, something they would have known if they actually researched Chicago weather history. It's part of what makes it seem so fraudulent.

why don't you just post a link? are you scared the same happens like last time when you posted a link to data and i actaully exposed you as a liar?
 
So let's cut to the chase r_j. Who is suspected of fraud? You are the one who keeps using the word fraud.
Once again, you are caught in a lie. The only two times somebody has used the word fraud in this entire thread, is you, In that post, and in the linked one below.
Isn't it ironic that many of these "sceptics" who claim to be exposing some great fraud keep getting caught out lying.

It's why I consider your type of "questions" a strawman. You use the word fraud, then you claim "You are the one who keeps using the word fraud". Ironic. In fact, I used the word "fraud" very rarely.

You should either back that up, apologise or be seen as just another conspiracy theorist.
Actually, since you made a claim, it's on you to support your accusation with evidence. But since it will make your fallacy so evident, I took 5 minutes to grab every instance I used the word "fraud" in the entire thread.

In the previous version of this thread the word was used 22 times, in both instances where I used it, the context was clear,
As usual, you speak about the person, not the subject at hand. If you make a claim, it's on you to support it. Demanding everyone else prove you wrong is what woo woo frauds do. [source]
and
That's the beauty of science. If it's actually science, you don't have to believe, you can see for yourself. You don't need somebody trying desperatly to convince you of something, just look at the science, unless it's some sort of fraud, a scam, the science should make things clear. [source]
In the previous thread (9000 posts), the word "fraud" was used 80 times. I used it three times, all in regards to the same "paper" by ClimateCentral.
The one that showed warming used a fraud by picking the coldest point in over a hundred years to start the trend line.[source]
The problem, or mistake, is using the very cold times to start the trend calculations. It's why some educated moron can claim the 80s were warmer than the 70s, the 90s were warmer than the 80s, etc etc, but when you look at the complete record you realize why that is fraud. It's what I pointed out in that propaganda paper about the drastic warming since the seventies.[source]
Once again, if you make up something, like "why are most scientists lying', don't try and say I said such nonsense. That's dishonest.

By sides, I mean the non-scientists who constantly create propaganda, trying to influence people with fraud and dishonest presentations.[source]
This is the power of computing, I can easily debunk your claim with evidence. Rather than trying to answer a question based on deception, I expose the the lie, and do it with evidence.

Feel free to prove I am wrong. (hint, I checked the AAH posts as well, but good luck)

Now what I did say, was "Since there is only one place to get the official data in question, the real issue would be what data are the Yahoos using when they make that woo woo claim? And how could they be so completely wrong?

It's even more obvious when you know a little Chicago history. The Yahoos claim the data from the University in the 30's and early 40's was artificially hotter, and that the move to O'Hare caused a cooling bias.

The factual story is the reverse, something they would have known if they actually researched Chicago weather history. It's part of what makes it seem so fraudulent."

So rather than follow the Gish Gallop, I stick with facts. Like the clear and certain fact that the move from the University to Midway caused the temperature readings to go up, not down. It's why I know their claim is bogus.

The facts do not support them in any way.

And these attempts to sidetrack the issue (red herring) are a waste of time. Except I actually enjoyed looking at all my posts that used the word fraud.

And I discovered that "fraudulent" doesn't show up when searching for "fraud". For the record, I used the word fraudulent just once. Other people used it a lot more.

So you ready to discuss the theory now or what?
 
why don't you just post a link? are you scared the same happens like last time when you posted a link to data and i actaully exposed you as a liar?
If you can show me where that happened, and it is true (it's not of course), I will teach you how to search the archives of the NWS. At which point you will actually know more than the two Yahoos who claimed the NWS in Chicago recorded "a slew" of temperatures of 113 F

Just link to the posts where you claim this event occurred.
 
If you can show me where that happened, and it is true (it's not of course), I will teach you how to search the archives of the NWS. At which point you will actually know more than the two Yahoos who claimed the NWS in Chicago recorded "a slew" of temperatures of 113 F

Just link to the posts where you claim this event occurred.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10065538#post10065538

here you go. your claim debunked by your own link......
 
Once again, you are caught in a lie. The only two times somebody has used the word fraud in this entire thread, is you, In that post, and in the linked one below.

It's why I consider your type of "questions" a strawman. You use the word fraud, then you claim "You are the one who keeps using the word fraud". Ironic. In fact, I used the word "fraud" very rarely.

Actually, since you made a claim, it's on you to support your accusation with evidence. But since it will make your fallacy so evident, I took 5 minutes to grab every instance I used the word "fraud" in the entire thread.

In the previous version of this thread the word was used 22 times, in both instances where I used it, the context was clear,
andIn the previous thread (9000 posts), the word "fraud" was used 80 times. I used it three times, all in regards to the same "paper" by ClimateCentral. This is the power of computing, I can easily debunk your claim with evidence. Rather than trying to answer a question based on deception, I expose the the lie, and do it with evidence.

Feel free to prove I am wrong. (hint, I checked the AAH posts as well, but good luck)

Now what I did say, was "Since there is only one place to get the official data in question, the real issue would be what data are the Yahoos using when they make that woo woo claim? And how could they be so completely wrong?

It's even more obvious when you know a little Chicago history. The Yahoos claim the data from the University in the 30's and early 40's was artificially hotter, and that the move to O'Hare caused a cooling bias.

The factual story is the reverse, something they would have known if they actually researched Chicago weather history. It's part of what makes it seem so fraudulent."

So rather than follow the Gish Gallop, I stick with facts. Like the clear and certain fact that the move from the University to Midway caused the temperature readings to go up, not down. It's why I know their claim is bogus.

The facts do not support them in any way.

And these attempts to sidetrack the issue (red herring) are a waste of time. Except I actually enjoyed looking at all my posts that used the word fraud.

And I discovered that "fraudulent" doesn't show up when searching for "fraud". For the record, I used the word fraudulent just once. Other people used it a lot more.

So you ready to discuss the theory now or what?

How much of your time did you way waste searching the forum and then posting the above rubbish just because you made another claim you cannot support r-j. It's typical of your other posts. When you remove the belligerence, self aggrandisement, and word games there is nothing left.
 
Just to help you along a bit as you see to have a short memory r-j. Here is what you said again.

Then there is the skeptical look at the data itself. Any records that show no warming, or even worse, cooling, are "adjusted" to be in line with the story that it's all warming, all the time

Knock yourself out trying to prove that claim is true and that this isn't a claim of fraud.
 
Tying up some loose ends...

This went unanswered (except for the case of r-j embarrassing himself once again as could not be otherwise)

Speaking of outgoing longwave radiation, this question originally made on last December 22nd and addressed to A. Martin was left unanswered. I think that enough time has passed to allow "the normal crowd" to reply this easy and important matter.

This is the outgoing longwave radiation for yesterday, December 21st (click on for a larger version)



Look carefully the region between 75N and 90N and appreciate how about a half of it -a tiny little bit less than a half- radiated more than 180 W/m2, with regions where the figure was even above 220 W/m2.

Now look carefully at the region between 75S and 90S and appreciate how about a half of it -a not so tiny bit less than a half- radiated more that 180W/m2 with no region radiating more than 220.

Got the facts?

As yesterday was the longest day in the year -in the hemisphere that matters the most regarding the planet's energy budget- would you care to explain to me and others why did the Antarctic region radiate about the same -a bit less indeed- than its Arctic counterpart provided yesterday was a 24-hour night in the Arctic and a 24-hour day -with the sun up to 38.5° above the horizon at midday- in the Antarctic region? Where does all that heat in the North come from?

Before making any wrong speculation, take a look to the anomalies in OLR for yesterday (again, click on the image for a larger version and to see how I'm roasting here now):



so, as you can surely appreciate, the Antarctic is in "business as normal" while the Arctic is radiating way above the normal. Again, why is that so? I assure you in the end this will relate with those funny, rioting, nice polar bears you cared to mention.

I hope other eager newcomers like Jules, Arnold et al will also dive in to reply these questions. If not -in a few days- I'll invite the normal crowd to reply.

I'm gonna think other interesting questions for some other nice visitors who are eager to engage in debate, no matter who -the feistier(livelier), the merrier-.

So, last call. I'm adding the average incoming solar flux for December:

picture.php


and the top-of-the-atmosphere all-sky outgoing shortwave flux also for December

picture.php


in the hope some soul will make sense of the obvious, but, you know, I got sick expecting everyone to acknowledge Earth's orbit is not circular, so I don't have high hopes.

In a couple of days I'll reply this -and any comment that might arise on it- and say goodbye to this thread and topic.
 
Oh dear, I think the problem is on your end.


me:The NWS official records
Oh dear, the total inability to understand the written word on your end, r-j.
I ask: r-j: (8 September 2014) Please cite the source you used to check the temperature records of from 1930 to about 1950 (1930's and 1940's) for the weather station mentioned in the [URL="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/03/new-daily-temperature-dataset-from-berkeley/"]RealClimate article.[/URL]

r-j answers: "The NWS official records" that r-j thinks do not exist.
This O'Hare weather station was relocated from within the city when the airport was opened. Those records exist according to real climate scientists who of course know where to get the real data .

r-j answers: "The NWS official records" without understanding that the NWS does not report individual weather station results.

r-j answers: "The NWS official records" without citing the actual records of the weather station in the RealClimate article that he says that he checked (" from any weather station of any kind").

Can r-j understand that these answers make his original assertion that he checked the records for every weather station in Chicago look delusional?
r-j: Simply check the actual records, and you will find no record of any day that had a high of 113 in Chicago, from any weather station of any kind.
Apparently not :p!
 
Last edited:
Oh dear, Arnold Martin, the ignorance of thinking that the economist "Lord" Christopher Monckton is a climate scientist :jaw-dropp!
Viscount Christopher Monckton is a rather ignorant and even deluded climate change denier. His talks on climate science have been full of "misinterpretations" of climate science papers that the authors have stated to be wrong.
Christopher Monckton
Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley is "a caricature English peer",[2] former deputy leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP)[3] and a climate change denier.

P.S. He is not a lord as in a member of the House of Lords. He is a Viscount. However one correct address for a Viscount X is "Lord X".

His "analysis" is a variation of the usual climate science denier myth about global warming: What has global warming done since 1998?
The planet has continued to accumulate heat since 1998 - global warming is still happening. Nevertheless, surface temperatures show much internal variability due to heat exchange between the ocean and atmosphere. 1998 was an unusually hot year due to a strong El Nino.


His "analysis" is easily seen to probably wrong: Wood For Trees shows a warming trend from 0.2 C to 0.25 C for the RSS data from 1996 to today (http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1996/mean:1/plot/rss/from:1996/trend)
MSU & AMSU Time Series Trend Browse Tool has 0.123 K per decade for the entire dataset.
Monkton's idiocy of hiding away the sources of his data in the images rather than showing the source in an actual citation continues! It is as if the only thing he knows about is the slides he uses in his talks.
The source is www.remss.com/data/msu/monthly_time...hannel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_3.txt.
 
Last edited:
and once again you ignore the posts where you got your lie debunked.... very telling.
You know, I understand now why Randi created the challenge. Woo woos are very evasive, and good at misdirection and ignoring evidence.

The challenge prevents a never ending Gish Gallop, and stops people from wasting your time.

A million dollar climate challenge would be a wonderful thing.
 
You know, I understand now why Randi created the challenge. Woo woos are very evasive, and good at misdirection and ignoring evidence.

The challenge prevents a never ending Gish Gallop, and stops people from wasting your time.

A million dollar climate challenge would be a wonderful thing.

Adress the post. your claim got debunked and it exposes your dishonesty. don't try to evade, i know you woo woos are good at it.
 
Last edited:
Tyson insisted he was providing the overwhelming evidence in support of the anthropogenic global warming theory, not simply by telling people it was true, but by showing them how we know it’s true and the significance of its impact. Tyson’s mission is to educate as many people as he can to think critically and to arrive at their conclusions and beliefs informed.
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/23/nei...eliefs_are_even_crazy_for_christians_partner/

Lovejoy claimed that he has “conclusively” (and single-handedly ... with statistics) proven that global warming is human-caused and catastrophically imminent. The scientific method requires comparing predictions of your theory to the observational evidence, and the anthropogenic global warming theory as expressed in climate models fails the test.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...scientific+evidence+shows/10157491/story.html
 
In a couple of days I'll reply this -and any comment that might arise on it- and say goodbye to this thread and topic.
I doubt it very much.

The last time I tried to get you to think, which is better than just telling you the answer. Here's a daily look. Note how some areas in the tropics are "losing heat" as you put it, as much as Greenland.

picture.php


Here's a monthly look.

picture.php


In your simplistic view the colors represent heat, and you can't fathom why the tropics would measure the same as over Greenland, or the arctic. How can it be "as cold" next to Mexico, as it is over the summit of Greenland?
 
I doubt it very much.

<lot's of off-topic angry crayola edited out>

You shouldn't have embarked on a fishing expedition if you didn't know what a fish looks like. Also, mixing up a bat for a rod didn't help you at all.

And don't worry, it's not you the cause, nor any denialist. Denialists are real fun, even you with your constant verbal abuse, and I gonna miss you all (but I can found them elsewhere at a dime a dozen should I miss the type too much).
 
IIn your simplistic view the colors represent heat, and you can't fathom why the tropics would measure the same as over Greenland, or the arctic.?
No, r-j, that is your simplistic view based on the inability to understand that aleCcowaN's Tying up some loose ends... was about the radiation produced by heat. aleCcowaN explicitly states that the graphs are of outgoing longwave radiation.
Speaking of outgoing longwave radiation, ...
This is the outgoing longwave radiation for yesterday, December 21st ...
As yesterday was the longest day in the year -in the hemisphere that matters the most regarding the planet's energy budget- would you care to explain to me and others why did the Antarctic region radiate about the same -a bit less indeed- than its Arctic counterpart provided yesterday was a 24-hour night in the Arctic and a 24-hour day -with the sun up to 38.5° above the horizon at midday- in the Antarctic region? Where does all that heat in the North come from?
(emphasis on the question he asked you)

But then you still have not answered my simple question:
r-j: Please cite the source you used to check the temperature records of from 1930 to about 1950 (1930's and 1940's) for the weather station mentioned in the [URL="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2014/03/new-daily-temperature-dataset-from-berkeley/"]RealClimate article.[/URL]
It is almost as if you are lying abut checking the records for that weather station, or maybe any weather station. But it is more likely ignorance about weather reporting and that the NWE reports temperatures averaged over weather stations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom