Merged The Disturbences in Ferguson Missouri...

Gallstones said:
The Problem with Eyewitness Testimony
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...Is bigger than that.

A person who accurately views and then accurately recalls the incident to police is technically/legally no different than a person who fabricates their observation because they didn't even see anything.
 
Upchurch said:
Are you suggesting that being a thug is a genetic trait?
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Nurture not nature. Living with/used to being around thugs can mean picking up their traits. Note: this is not my fight area. I neither have nor am interested in gaining sufficient evidence to consider the situation proven or not proven. Just noting plausibles.
 
Upchurch said:
I'm having trouble parsing this triple negative:
  1. It would be unfortunate if there were riots when the cop is indicted?
  2. It would be fortunate if there were not riots when the cop is indicted?
  3. It would be fortunate if there were riots when the cop is not indicted?
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I go for a different choice: it would be nice if there were no riots. Do not like riots, never did, have no problem with rioters being shot. Rioters commit very random damage, they often, if not always, do not destroy anything of any real value to those they are rioting against but do destroy much of the property where they are rioting - their's and that of their friends/relatives...... Rioting does not accomplish jack-feces. It is useless and pointless - though it does provide cover for thieves and robbers to work untroubled for a bit!!
 
jimbob said:
We knew somethinglike this:

Remember the Ferguson McDonald's arrests

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html
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Actually, that is worth rereading:

An officer with a large weapon came up to me and said, “Stop recording.”

I said, “Officer, do I not have the right to record you?”

He backed off but told me to hurry up. So I gathered my notebook and pens with one hand while recording him with the other hand.

As I exited, I saw Ryan to my left, having a similar argument with two officers. I recorded him, too, and that angered the officer. As I made my way toward the door, the officers gave me conflicting information.

One instructed me to exit to my left. As I turned left, another officer emerged, blocking my path.
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Multiple officers grabbed me. I tried to turn my back to them to assist them in arresting me. I dropped the things from my hands.

“My hands are behind my back,” I said. “I’m not resisting. I’m not resisting.” At which point one officer said: “You’re resisting. Stop resisting.”

That was when I was most afraid — more afraid than of the tear gas and rubber bullets.

As they took me into custody, the officers slammed me into a soda machine, at one point setting off the Coke dispenser. They put plastic cuffs on me, then they led me out the door.
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If they behaved like that to a reporter for a news organisation that was famous for bringing down a president, then it doesn't bode well for their treatment of less influential people who annoy them.
 
Bogative said:
It looks like the rotten apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Michael Brown's mother, Lesley McSpadden, was involved in a strong-arm robbery committed against Michael Brown's grandmother and cousin.
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http://fox2now.com/2014/11/05/polic...-following-fight-among-michael-browns-family/

FERGUSON, MO (KTVI) – FOX 2 has just obtained the incident report involving a reported assault and robbery first exposed in the Fox Files. Chris Hayes obtained it after a hearing in St. Louis County Court.

It went to Court because Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden, asked police not to release the incident report. The City Attorney for Ferguson, Stephanie Karr, wanted to be sensitive while still following the law. So she took it to Judge Maura McShane who said the report needed to be released, according to the law.
...

The report says Brown`s grandma was ‘repeatedly struck in the back of the head by an unknown subject’ and ‘knocked to the ground.’ The report adds that McSpadden ‘then ran up and punched (grandma).’
...

Lesley McSpadden`s criminal attorney, Lynne Perkins, was also in court when the Judge released the report. He said McSpadden denies assaulting anyone on October 18th and he asked for people to be sensitive to his client, who`s dealing with the loss of her child. Judge McShane also asked for people to be sensitive to a tremendous bubbling of emotions. Lesley McSpadden is trying to send a message of peace and is scheduled to speak to the United Nations later this month in Geneva, Switzerland.


Oh my ...
 
TheL8Elvis said:
http://fox2now.com/2014/11/05/polic...-following-fight-among-michael-browns-family/

FERGUSON, MO (KTVI) – FOX 2 has just obtained the incident report involving a reported assault and robbery first exposed in the Fox Files. Chris Hayes obtained it after a hearing in St. Louis County Court.

It went to Court because Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden, asked police not to release the incident report. The City Attorney for Ferguson, Stephanie Karr, wanted to be sensitive while still following the law. So she took it to Judge Maura McShane who said the report needed to be released, according to the law.
...

The report says Brown`s grandma was ‘repeatedly struck in the back of the head by an unknown subject’ and ‘knocked to the ground.’ The report adds that McSpadden ‘then ran up and punched (grandma).’
...

Lesley McSpadden`s criminal attorney, Lynne Perkins, was also in court when the Judge released the report. He said McSpadden denies assaulting anyone on October 18th and he asked for people to be sensitive to his client, who`s dealing with the loss of her child. Judge McShane also asked for people to be sensitive to a tremendous bubbling of emotions. Lesley McSpadden is trying to send a message of peace and is scheduled to speak to the United Nations later this month in Geneva, Switzerland.


Oh my ...
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Might help to explain why the Gentle Giant(tm) turned out they way he did.
 
plague311 said:
I don't believe he was responding to that, as that topic already has it's own thread. Also, he quoted the specific post he was replying too.
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But it is pretty irrelevant to why the disturbances happened. "When a felon's not engaged in his employment..." might be the start of a comic song, but is actually true.

I have no doubt that Brown was a criminal. I am unsure if the officer who shot him acted appropriately* but I am certain that the police department were not justified in arresting journalists in the stories listed above. Also the ratios of searches to arrests for different races should give one pause about whether there is a bias against black people in that department.







*given how few shootings there are in the UK, yet violence is moderately common (especially on Friday nights) I would have thought there would have been a better, non-fatal solution as used by UK police.
 
It's probably worth noting for those living in the area that this is the weekend that it was kind of reported that a decision was expected to be announced.
 
jimbob said:
....If they behaved like that to a reporter for a news organisation that was famous for bringing down a president, then it doesn't bode well for their treatment of less influential people who annoy them.
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Do you really believe anyone on that police force had a clue about Watergate; or if they did, that they were filtering their actions with such knowledge?

Besides, it's not like the police anywhere, have a reputation for great press relations...
 
Feds bring impartial police training to St. Louis departments

The training is designed to enhance officers’ understanding of how bias — including implicit or unconscious bias — affects officer behavior, and the impact that biased policing has on officers and the community. Subsequent sessions focus on educating first-line supervisors and police trainers as a way to integrate these concepts into day-to-day practices, according to a Department of Justice official.
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Skeptical Greg said:
Do you really believe anyone on that police force had a clue about Watergate; or if they did, that they were filtering their actions with such knowledge?

Besides, it's not like the police anywhere, have a reputation for great press relations...
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I would still have expected them to be worried about the story coming out.

However, it obviously wasn't the case. But it does show contempt for the citizens.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Looks like some of the "peaceful protesters" (i.e. thugs) turned against one of their useful idiots: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-beaten-at-ferguson-protest-strategy-meeting/article_ba9ebc92-cb6f-57d9-bc00-1c99edc3c99c.html
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Now this useful idiot wants everyone to help him pay for his medical bills. Judging by the total so far, it doesn't sound like many of the peaceful protestors have stepped up. Also, where is his health insurance? I'm sure he voted for Obama, and supported mandatory health coverage. Looks like he's breaking the law by not being covered. Probably just forgot to sign up.

http://www.gofundme.com/gx7w68
 
Why is Michael Brown's mother addressing the UN? That's like having Iran chair the Human Rights panel.
 
Moral clarity imposes itself:

Event the nonviolent church people did not call 911. I then knocked on several homes and asked people to call 911 and no one did. I kept running and saw some of those who beat me at a local convenience store so I kept running. I then had one person who beat me drive up in a car and try to pick me up. I then kept running.​
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Now this useful idiot wants everyone to help him pay for his medical bills. Judging by the total so far, it doesn't sound like many of the peaceful protestors have stepped up. Also, where is his health insurance? I'm sure he voted for Obama, and supported mandatory health coverage. Looks like he's breaking the law by not being covered. Probably just forgot to sign up.

http://www.gofundme.com/gx7w68
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I cannot help but wonder just exactly what they were talking about---or planning to--which encouraged such...hyper-vigilance...of live streaming.
 
Kaosium said:
What do you suppose they might have been discussing which would cause them to be so....fanatical....about someone else finding out?
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Who is "they"? The people who were discussing things? Or the few people who disrupted the meeting? Are you also lumping everyone together?
 
Unabogie said:
Who is "they"? The people who were discussing things? Or the few people who disrupted the meeting? Are you also lumping everyone together?
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The ones who decided to give the 'snitch' some stitches.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and starting with the assumption they were not violence junkies getting their fix, that there might have been a reason they were so afraid what they were saying might get out.

What do you suppose that might have been?
 
Kaosium said:
The ones who decided to give the 'snitch' some stitches.
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:rolleyes:

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and starting with the assumption they were not violence junkies getting their fix, that there might have been a reason they were so afraid what they were saying might get out.

What do you suppose that might have been?
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Considering that you have not even shown who these people allegedly were, how can I know why they did what they did? And how many of the people who were there were even involved?
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
And also reluctant to call 911.

I suspect I know the answer. Might have to do with warrants. :)
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Or maybe they're afraid of being shot and killed by the police for no reason, which is, at least, how they see what happened.

And of course, the police still don't seem willing to actually explain what happened. They're even still fighting against uniform cameras and dash cams.
 
ehcks said:
Or maybe they're afraid of being shot and killed by the police for no reason, which is, at least, how they see what happened.
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Come on. All True Skeptics know that there's always only one way to view an event, and anyone who sees things differently is a Useful Idiot.
 
Unabogie said:
:rolleyes:


Considering that you have not even shown who these people allegedly were, how can I know why they did what they did?
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You don't even wonder? It could have been just for the pure joy of watching him squeal and bleed, or I suppose it could have been giving the pink monkey what he had coming for being pink, or maybe they just wanted to beat him up and take his stuff, but I'm discounting those for now and going with the evidence that suggests there was something at that meeting they didn't want people to hear.

What do you suppose it might have been?

And how many of the people who were there were even involved?
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That's not what I'm getting at.
 
Kaosium said:
You don't even wonder? It could have been just for the pure joy of watching him squeal and bleed, or I suppose it could have been giving the pink monkey what he had coming for being pink, or maybe they just wanted to beat him up and take his stuff, but I'm discounting those for now and going with the evidence that suggests there was something at that meeting they didn't want people to hear.

What do you suppose it might have been?
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I think it was because the man is actually a space alien sent here to breed with orcas, since unsubstantiated speculation is called for.
 
Unabogie said:
I think it was because the man is actually a space alien sent here to breed with orcas, since unsubstantiated speculation is called for.
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So are you saying you know what it probably is and don't want to discuss it? :)

My speculation isn't out of ignorance. I remember the 602 Club and hung out in the Rathskeller back in the day when certain enclaves thought of drinking ages as just another oppression by the man upon youth and no one bothered with ID cards as they were just another form of fascist oppression. They had all sorts of other ideas too, and I loved hearing people talk about them and add my own suggestions on how the Revolution should go down...and I had questions that often led to interesting discussions.

Oh, and there was a big protest going on during that time, and I got to listen to some of them on how it had really started and what was (supposedly) going to go down. Those were the guys that whispered furtively about being watched by the FBI and stuff, my guess (at the time) was they were paranoid and did too many drugs, after all didn't we live in a free country?

There was a big protest here a few years back yet again, and some of the usual suspects were about, but they were just hangers-on, that one was done by Teachers Unions and they like things organized (they bring porta-potties!) and don't like violence, that's not what they're there for. There's so many more of them than the weirdos the latter can't wag the dog, the ones with porta-potties run the show.


It doesn't look to me like the porta-potty people are running the show in Ferguson. So thus my question: what do you suppose those people who beat that kid because they thought he might be live streaming were there to talk about?
 
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