Is there a legitimate reason to question the official narrative*?

Is there a legitimate reason to question the official narrative?

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Miragememories said:
For the most part, after 9/11, only the Twin Towers received further media attention, while 7WTC's more mysterious collapse was quietly ignored by all, except the 9/11 Truth Community.

AE911 was largely responsible for bringing this event it to the public's attention.
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The insurance companies, who rightfully should be concerned about an empty building collapse, also made it news, and went through the courts and a new investigation.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/court-strikes-wtc-building-collapse-suit-article-1.1537539

What has AE911 accomplished? Maybe the need more money for another 13 years of Gage world traveling.

In the meantime, Obama's special forces have taken out the guy the 'official story' and the common narrative both fingered as ultimately responsible.
 
Purdue did a detailed aircraft impact sim for WTC1. Did they do the same for WTC2?

I found in the NIST reports, that about five perimeter columns of the 78th floor were damaged.
Unfortunately my SurfacePro seems to have difficulty downloading some NIST PDF's
 
Oystein said:
I have often experienced problems downloading NIST documents. Try this site - some unlocked all PDFs (removed copy&paste lock) and uploaded them in a nicely structured manner on OneDrive:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=23638DA582FECBF6&id=23638DA582FECBF6!107
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Great thx
NCSTAR1-5A. Extent of damage including initial fireballs noted in videos, is summarised in the Executive Summary. For WTC 2 starts on page liv.
Most of the fireball occurred from 80th , 81nd and 83rd floors.
Perhaps the steep banking turn imparted momentum to the fuel load that saw it spread up and east at impact, saving the 78th floor from some of the fuel fire.

Note also that the impact damaged the aluminum façade on the 77th and 85th floors. Those are the wingtip impacts.
 
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Spanx said:
Jango, its probably going to be easier if you say what you think should have happened.

Maybe the tops should have fallen off ? It will give people an understanding of where you're coming from.

If you say what you think rather than reciting what you have read on the net. It will save you from from looking like a fool.
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What I've done is watch the videos of the collapses. Have you watched videos of the collapses?
 
Jango said:
What I've done is watch the videos of the collapses.

Have you watched videos of the collapses?
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What?

Watch the videos and let gut reactions conflict with a carefully crafted propaganda machine?

Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force prefer to topple at the weakest point.
 
Jango said:
What I've done is watch the videos of the collapses. Have you watched videos of the collapses?
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Yes of course I have, and your point is what exactly ?

Is it the fact that you couldn't see the lower levels of wtc7 when it collapsed ? Or perhaps you have a problem with the way the towers collapsed ?
 
Miragememories said:
What?

Watch the videos and let gut reactions conflict with a carefully crafted propaganda machine?

Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force prefer to topple at the weakest point.
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As a pithy summation of Truther methodology, this post is hard to beat. Step one: "just watch the video, man!" Step two: pretend "gut reactions" are all you need to overcome informed analysis of what you see. Step three: paint all that informed analysis as the product of a "carefully crafted propaganda machine." Step four: "Anyone knows" is all anybody needs to know.
 
turingtest said:
As a pithy summation of Truther methodology, this post is hard to beat. Step one: "just watch the video, man!" Step two: pretend "gut reactions" are all you need to overcome informed analysis of what you see. Step three: paint all that informed analysis as the product of a "carefully crafted propaganda machine." Step four: "Anyone knows" is all anybody needs to know.
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Step 5.....ignore basic physics. :rolleyes:
 
Miragememories said:
Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force...
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Begging the question.

First, if "anyone familiar with gravity" could invariably solve these problems correctly, we wouldn't need licensed structural engineers. We do need them, and you've already admitted you aren't one. So the foundation for your opinion here is insufficient.

Second, I've seen quite a few Truthers here pretend to be "familiar with gravity," and I have yet to see any of them get it right.

Third, the notion that "hinge" of some sort should be created during some sort of partial failure of a steel-frame building of this size and type, such that the entire upper portion should rotate intact and fall on its side, is utterly ludicrous. There is no such reserve strength in the remaining columns.
 
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Jango said:
What I've done is watch the videos of the collapses. Have you watched videos of the collapses?
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Of course we all have. The question is what conclusions you drew from watching the videos, and what other assumptions and preconceptions those conclusions might have been based on. I can watch videos of three-cushion billiards all day, but that doesn't mean I'm watching them with a practiced, educated, or skillful eye. If I didn't know what was happening, I'd be convinced billiards videos were fake until someone explained to me how such things as "English" or a maasse shot were accomplished. They seem to defy "the laws of physics" as I understand the physics of billiards. But what would really be happening there is that I didn't know enough about the physics of the game to judge it appropriately.

Truthers are the equivalent of shouting "fake!" having never seen billiards played or explained.
 
Miragememories said:
What?

Watch the videos and let gut reactions conflict with a carefully crafted propaganda machine?

Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force prefer to topple at the weakest point.
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I say your gut reaction is wrong. Show me how it's not - in the appropriate threads, of course.

A challenge you have yet to meet.

Or are you never wrong?
 
Miragememories said:
What?

Watch the videos and let gut reactions conflict with a carefully crafted propaganda machine?

Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force prefer to topple at the weakest point.
Click to expand...
I teach introductory physics. I'm currently reading a book (Teaching Introductory Physics, Arnold Arons) about the difficulties even beginning engineering students have with the most basic concepts. It's been 30 years since I was a beginner, so it's mind boggling to me. For example:
Very few students can give intelligible an operational definition of the term "vertical".
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I can tell you without a shred of doubt that you do not know what you think you know. I can also tell you that after 13 years of not learning what you did not know, there is no hope that you ever will.

The fact that you apparently believe your government (or whichever PTB) could carry out such a massive disguised (except from Truthers of course) attack on its citizenry and yet you do not feel compelled to any sort of meaningful action is a mystery to me, but then, I study Physics, not Abnormal Psychology.
 
sylvan8798 said:
I teach introductory physics. I'm currently reading a book (Teaching Introductory Physics, Arnold Arons) about the difficulties even beginning engineering students have with the most basic concepts. It's been 30 years since I was a beginner, so it's mind boggling to me. For example:

I can tell you without a shred of doubt that you do not know what you think you know. I can also tell you that after 13 years of not learning what you did not know, there is no hope that you ever will.

The fact that you apparently believe your government (or whichever PTB) could carry out such a massive disguised (except from Truthers of course) attack on its citizenry and yet you do not feel compelled to any sort of meaningful action is a mystery to me, but then, I study Physics, not Abnormal Psychology.
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That's brilliant. Permission to deploy that at will, please.
 
JayUtah said:
Begging the question.

First, if "anyone familiar with gravity" could invariably solve these problems correctly, we wouldn't need licensed structural engineers. We do need them, and you've already admitted you aren't one. So the foundation for your opinion here is insufficient.

Second, I've seen quite a few Truthers here pretend to be "familiar with gravity," and I have yet to see any of them get it right.

Third, the notion that "hinge" of some sort should be created during some sort of partial failure of a steel-frame building of this size and type, such that the entire upper portion should rotate intact and fall on its side, is utterly ludicrous. There is no such reserve strength in the remaining columns.
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I suspect a part of it is the lack of understanding of scale. They see pictures of the twin towers, which look like tall, thin objects, and seemingly fail to realize that each floor had only slightly less area than a football field. Expecting them to topple from failures on one floor, or even several floors, is akin to expecting your car to roll over when it gets a flat tire. That only happens with the addition of a significant sideways force.
 
Miragememories said:
What?

Watch the videos and let gut reactions conflict with a carefully crafted propaganda machine?

Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force prefer to topple at the weakest point.
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911 truth faith based followers think the WTC is a stick, or tree. If 911 truth understood structural engineering, they could understand why, or if 911 truth followers were knowledgeable lay people.

Stuck with a faith based movement based on thermite from a failed Jones fantasy and Jones BS. A movement that never made a point, never will.
 
Jango said:
What I've done is watch the videos of the collapses. Have you watched videos of the collapses?
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I’ve watched then twice now.
:rolleyes:

Actually I lost count a decade ago, how many tines I have watched the videos of the collapses.
I never ceases to amaze me when ever those persons operating under personal incredulity assume that those who operate under the principles of preponderance of evidence, and the applied sciences, must not have seen the videos of the collapses.
 
Miragememories said:
What?

Watch the videos and let gut reactions conflict with a carefully crafted propaganda machine?

Anyone familiar with gravity knows that tall objects failing under that force prefer to topple at the weakest point.
Click to expand...

deja vu

I never ceases to amaze me when ever those persons operating under personal incredulity assume that those who operate under the principles of preponderance of evidence, and the applied sciences, must not have seen the videos of the collapses.

It would appear that everything I learned in physics and in having close friends who became engineers, everything I learned in college and in being an electronic tech for Transport Canada, everything I learned as a tech for a cabkeco and a commercial TV station, was all part of a vast deep seated propaganda campaign that was several decades, perhaps centuries, in planning.
 
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