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10th March 2015, 07:17 AM | #3401 |
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You are absolutely correct—my knowledge stems from the one Book, written by 39 different people, over a period of some 1500 years, consolidated into 66 books.
But I still cannot from what I have read and heard about TOE, accept that things came about by mere chance. I tried this by putting all the ingredients for a cake in a bowl,, but no cake was formed. It reminds me of an explanation in the Scriptures about how the golden calf came to be---very funny.► Exodus 32:24 So I told them, 'Whoever has any gold jewellery, take it off.' Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!" |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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10th March 2015, 07:26 AM | #3402 |
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10th March 2015, 07:43 AM | #3403 |
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There is too much to address—so I will as I have said before, retain my stance on what I have previously stated. You keep referring to TOE as if this is the final explanation and that TOE only deals with certain things and not the explanation of how all things came to be.
Evolution states that there is no Creator, and that everything came about by some magical formation of certain things that formed other things, which in turn other things evolved. Some say that the universe is 13.8 billion years old—now I have read how people arrive at this so very accurate number, but still am baffled how they can be so sure of their facts—no I am not baffled, just amused. I am what people call a creationist, so naturally I do not hold to the theories of evolution—they make no sense to an intelligent person. You and others can present what you want and I will read it, but it still is beyond reason that what we have, is the result of chance happenings. Design Sir, everything must come about by design—to reject this is not realistic, because everything in the world today has been designed. So if that is the case, how can you insist that the universe came about without design? |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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10th March 2015, 07:55 AM | #3404 |
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The Scripture as we have them today give us a clear vision of the character of the Creator—the many translations are able to be blended into one complete revelation. I do not pretend—it is as I have stated, you do not know how to understand the revelation of the Scriptures –so you try to find fault.
It is as it is stated--►Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ►Gen 1:16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. Now this is a logical way of understanding how things came about—simple, yet so amazing. To add►Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. You see Mr Slowvehicle, this is simple to understand—easy to explain to a child—yes amazing but simple. |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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10th March 2015, 08:03 AM | #3405 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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10th March 2015, 08:17 AM | #3406 |
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Well eventually I came to you after Mr Slowvehicle took up so much space—so what are you on about—oh, you call me ignorant, because I believe in reality and not chance.
As I have stated—nothing, that is nothing, can come about by chance—everything must be designed by a designer, then it must be “made”. There must be a beginning, and how that beginning came about. ►Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ►Gen 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. So now we can see that everything was made by God—who has subsequently revealed himself to mankind through the Scriptures that the Jews so jealously guarded. I do not think I am ignorant—in certainty I am enlightened. |
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10th March 2015, 09:50 AM | #3407 |
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Understanding.
I have gained a lot of insight from this Professor—you will do well to consider his clear explanation from his many lectures.
Listening to him gives one a good look at where evolutionist get things wrong----Now he was an atheist—but common sense was employed.
Quote:
http://genesisconflict.com/ |
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10th March 2015, 02:08 PM | #3408 |
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Emerald cockroach wasp - Wikipedia
Read onwards from "Reproductive behavior and life cycle" and tell me that your God isn't a bit of a twisted pollock if he gets pleasure from any of that. |
10th March 2015, 03:38 PM | #3409 |
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Wow. I don't think I have ever seen a rationale quite so twisted, to basically agree that what I said- that your understanding of the TOE is so woefully inadequate, on a 2nd grader's level, that you have no business criticizing it- was right, and still manage to conclude that I was wrong. This is an amazing grace indeed, Paul.
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10th March 2015, 03:56 PM | #3410 |
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Then you've got no business sneering at other folks who can "[only] read some books in order to answer the question." It's that complacent "holier than thou" double standard at work again; you're imprisoned by your own world-view into a complete inability to deal fairly with any other.
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I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King |
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10th March 2015, 04:29 PM | #3411 |
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It has been pointed out to you, several times, that you are parroting an untruth; that your cartoon misstatement does not reflect the TOE, and that you do not begin to understand what you claim to be opposing (you are, in fact, opposing a claim made by no biologist; a position taken by no one who understands even the basics of the actual TOE).
And yet, somehow, you continue to parrot the same misstatement, showing absolutely no evidence of having read a single post, ot pursued a single source, you have been offered. You continue to mouth a falsehood; worse, you cannot even identify who you claim you are "quoting", or provide a single source that supports the position you claim to have "read". It seems patent why you will not, in fact, engage the actual TOE; why you will not, in fact, provide the sources you claim "support" your misstatements. Here is the most recent spate of unsupported repetitions of your demonstrably inaccurate claims: Not one of those statements is a correct statement of any tenet of the TOE. If any of them were, in fact, something you had "read" (instead of inventing), it was not something you were "reading" about the TOE. It is telling that, instead of providing links to an actual biologist, or an actual scientist (or even an actual classroom teacher), actually familiar with the actual TOE who supports, or agrees with, the cartoon version you constructed out of straw in order to be able to refute; all you can do is repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat your misstatements. It is a good thing your 'god' is so soft on the whole "false witness" thing... I must say, in all fairness, that once, just once, you slipped, and said the truth, to wit: Just this one time, you admitted that your fantasy accusations of claims about "chance" are, in fact, not contained in the TOE, but are your own contribution, without support, without source, without evidence. It is clear that is what you believe; it is equally clear that is not part of the TOE. Perhaps, having slipped and made the admission, you will come clean, mend your ways, and turn form your ἁμαρτία; and stop pretending that the TOE says what it does not. Just to be clear: the TOE does not address the "origins" of life; does not address the "origins" of the universe, and does not hold that "everything came about by mere chance". |
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10th March 2015, 04:47 PM | #3412 |
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I see. You will not (can not?) read sources suggested to you, but you "encourage" others to watch videos you found helpful? Maybe you missed the part about AIG and DI.
At any rate, I have explained my problem with videos beforee, multiple times. Are you aware of anywhere this nutritional psychologist (who, by his own testimony, "abandoned" the TOE, not because of physical evidence, but because of conflicts with his new-found (Adventist) faith, and who now practices apologetics), has published, or made available, the transcripts to his sermons? I would see what he has to say, but I am loath to sit through preachment. Reading is much easier for me. Thanks! |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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10th March 2015, 04:57 PM | #3413 |
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Lest you think it went unnoticed, you missed a few questions.
In your own opinion, when is þͤ fludde to be supposed to have taken place? In your own opinion,what physical evidence is there for þͤ fludde? In your own opinion, why does the fossil record demonstrate chronological sorting, instead of hydrodynamic sorting, or the results of some specially-pled "escape protocol"? In your own opinion, how, in fact, did two three-toed sloths get form Turkey to Brasil? |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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10th March 2015, 07:38 PM | #3414 |
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10th March 2015, 08:09 PM | #3415 |
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Paul, why would I take life advice from someone who consistently makes the same error, again and again, in spite of being corrected numerous times?
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"Here we go again.... semantic and syntactic chicanery and sophistic sleight of tongue and pen.... the bedazzling magic of appearing to be saying something when in fact all that is happening is diverting attention from the attempts at shoving god through the trapdoor of illogic and wishful thinking." - Leumas |
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10th March 2015, 08:14 PM | #3416 |
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Yes, and the Gospels of the New Testament were chosen by church leaders following their own political/religious agendas, and were not in there current form until the 16th century - more than 1500 years after JC is alleged to have walked the earth. Given the different tones if the various gospels and the differences in content, it is readily apparent that they are NOT writing about the same person, or are doing so based on third or fourth hand information at best, plus there is also the lack of corroborating evidence for several of the key figures in texts other than the Bible. Meaning that your sole source of knowledge is inaccurate, contradictory and is the product of several committees. Had Arias been more politically connected it is quite possible that his interpretation of JC would now be what is taught. The Old Testament is another product of committees, and differs from the Torah in content as well. If this is indeed a divinely inspired book - it is apparent to all, save those who will not see, that the message has changed over the years and what is now considered as part of the Bible may not always have been. In short there is no way to actually know if what you believe in is actually what your deity inspired, if it was all made up to support a particular agenda, or if time and copying have altered the message. |
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10th March 2015, 08:36 PM | #3417 |
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Actually, Second Graders can, in fact, learn the basics of the TOE, and understand it very well.
Here is an overview of a process i have used, more than once; I will not go into the kind of excruciating detail an actual lesson plan requires. Start by emphasizing the four practical pillars of the TOE: -Variation -Inheritance -Selection -Time Present each one with a concrete activity, and be sure to emphasize the functional vocabulary. For Variation, have the students draw up a chart of visible physical traits (eye color, hair color, hair texture, skin color, height, build, nose shape, eye shape, face shape, handedness, and so forth--this will work best if you let the students, themselves, identify and select traits). Have the students draw up a personal chart on themselves; then mix up the charts and have the students locate the person designated by a chart chosen at random. For Inheritance, have them use their physical traits list to see if they can tell if they are more like their parents and siblings than their cousins, or their friends. Point out how heredity goes hand-in-hand with variation by talking about how they are like, but not identical to their close relatives. There are many age-appropriate "build-a-critter" activities, where students use various methods to select alleles for "traits" in simple organisms ("Snorks" is a good one); have the students build or draw their organisms to explore the ways in which the same organism can be different. For Selection, play "Hide-a-Moth": give each student a simple paper moth shape; let them color the moth to match a particular background or "habitat" in the room; hide the colored moths on the selected background, and have a "predator" hunt for the moths (it is fun to let another teacher, or the principal, be the "predator"); any moth that is found in 180 seconds dies, and does not reproduce. Let the students use the characteristics of the surviving moths to figure out what the next generation of moths might look like. (If you have time, you can even make, and hunt, the second, and the third, generation). Another Selection activity is a Trophic Structures game (the one I use with Second Graders is called, "Food Fight"). Basically, the students are divided into 4 teams. Each team selects a "hunter", each team's "hunter" gets a different "tool" taped to the thumb and forefinger of each hand (one "hunter", for instance, gets a plastic spoon, bowl up, taped to each hand; one gets the same kind of spoon but bowl down, one gets two forks, one gets two knives). Put a large, square blanket on the floor, and scatter a package of coloured mini-marshmallows on it. Let the students "hunt for food" (they have to pick up one piece of food with only their tools, and take it back to the rest of their team, off the blanket, before they can go back and pick up another. At the end of two minutes, have the students graph how much food was gathered with each tool. You can do several different ways of showing how the most successful tool would become more numerous, and the least successful tool might even die out. If you can play outside, on grass, you can do the same kind of analysis on the "food"--which colour is the best at hiding, which will die out, etc. For Time, have the students build a timeline of significant geological events, to get a feeling for how much time is involved. In a week, you will have a class of students who have no problem understanding the basics of the actual TOE. Do notice two things: Not one of the activities even mentions "the origin of life", or the "origin of the universe"; not one of the activities teaches or even implies that "everything came about by chance". It's much easier, much more fruitful, and more constructive than telling the students fairy tales and superstitions--and I get to deal with things they can see and make happen with their own two hands. I get to be honest with them. |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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10th March 2015, 09:54 PM | #3418 |
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10th March 2015, 10:04 PM | #3419 |
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Not at all. Molecules, atoms and subatomic particles fall together into stable structures as a result of their own electromagnetic properties, and those structures react with other ones to create increasingly more complex ones.
Quite frankly, I don't think that a god who'd let his "creation" succumb to the wiles of a Talking Snake™ is smart enough to build a Higgs boson, let alone something like deoxyribonucleic acid.
Quote:
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11th March 2015, 12:46 AM | #3420 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 04:51 AM | #3421 |
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Your mish mash of gibberish proves how much you're struggling to keep your silly stories straight. So life mutates? You've explained that things don't happen by chance so what caused the emerald cockroach wasp to "mutate"? Surely your God designed the creature this way when he created it? Or did this creature do a naughty like the black people you despise so much who became black because they ate gorillas and drank blood? What quantity of blood and gorilla do I have to consume before I turn black? Or am I like one of the cakes you don't understand how to make? Does your God have a belly button? Ask him when you next chat with him please. Also, ask him for a proper date of when this END is going to happen. I for one can't wait for it, it sounds a real hoot. |
11th March 2015, 05:59 AM | #3422 |
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11th March 2015, 06:06 AM | #3423 |
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yet another telling error
And your "66 books" is only true for some bibles; other Christian canons contain as many as 80.
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11th March 2015, 06:36 AM | #3424 |
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Once again: the only part chance plays in evolution by natural selection is in the provision of variety, the raw material upon which natural selection acts. Natural selection is a far more powerful force than chance - powerful enough to turn billion-to-one probabilities into stone cold certainties - but it is not a conscious force, let alone an intelligent one.
You can either make some effort to understand this (and most small children have no difficulty grasping it) or you can keep wilfully misunderstanding and misrepresenting what the TOE says, and keep being corrected by those who do understand it, until you die. |
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11th March 2015, 09:10 AM | #3425 |
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So, let me think if I understand now: what you call god is not enough; now you need a devil to stick out its tail.
[Why don't you take this way out I'm offering you and start a new chapter of this long thread. So far, your strawmen about evolution have failed miserably, your repetition of the bit "by chance" that is a classic boomerang clumsily used by creationists has degenerated in a sort of "I can't hear you! I can't hear you!" on your part, so, give it a thought] |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated.These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. If the horse reasons the Kentucky Derby is over |
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11th March 2015, 09:39 AM | #3426 |
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11th March 2015, 10:28 AM | #3427 |
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As an example of why we should NOT use the Bible as a sole source of knowledge let's take a look at the geneaology of Jesus.
It's dealt with explicitly in 2 of the 4 Gospels found in the New Testament (NT), the other 2 ignoring everything about Jesus that happened pre-ministry. Matthew figures that we need to establish JC's right to be considered the Messiah right away and takes the first 16 verses of the first chapter to cover Jesus' ancestor's. He traces the ancestry right back to Abraham. According to Matthew, Joseph is the descendant of King David through Soloman (David's son by Bathsheba - the woman David had Uriah the Hittite betrayed and killed over). Luke starts off a little later in his story, waiting until chapter 3. He traces it all back to Adam, but there is little agreement between the lists - ie. David. After David the stories diverge - Matthew tracing JC's human lineage through Soloman, a well known king, while Luke traces the line through Nathan, a lesser known son of David who was never King. The two gospels don't even agree as to who the father of Joseph was - Matthew says that Joseph's father was Jacob, Luke says it was Heli. Which should tell anyone that the authors of these two gospels didn't actually know JC, and certainly were trying to advance a particular religious/political agenda - namely that JC had a right to be the Messiah, or annoited one based on his ancestry through the male line to the Kings of old - which would have been essential to gaining political and religious control, one author decided to go for the gusto, while another went for a lesser known line to make it just a little more plausible. And if you believe either text, it's all pointless because Jesus is the bastard child born of an adulterous union between Mary and the Holy Spirit, which given the way that bastards were treated in ancient societies you can understand why it's glossed over. |
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11th March 2015, 12:04 PM | #3428 |
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Mutation is when something changes from its original’
Quote:
I know you will not be so haughty when the END comes. So the world is close to the same degree of violence when God destroyed those people.► Gen_6:13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. You see Slippers God would not be just if he should favouritism. ► Isaiah_13:11 I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. So be patient and enjoy your present life—for the END will change all of that. |
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11th March 2015, 12:09 PM | #3429 |
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Pray I will tell you—cannibalism is when people eat people.
So I was using this to show how corrupt people had become—so many variety of animals mutated from what they were originally created to be. It illustrates how change can take place through what people consume as food. |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:15 PM | #3430 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:18 PM | #3431 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:22 PM | #3432 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:28 PM | #3433 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:30 PM | #3434 |
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11th March 2015, 12:31 PM | #3435 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:34 PM | #3436 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:36 PM | #3437 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:41 PM | #3438 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:46 PM | #3439 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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11th March 2015, 12:48 PM | #3440 |
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