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Tags biocentrism , robert lanza

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Old 2nd December 2015, 01:06 PM   #1
Alexander1304
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Do we create time?

Hi folks,
I decided to put it here,in 'Science' section,and not under 'Paranormal'.
It is about Robert Lanza'z another article.He argues that we create time,not other way around.Here is the article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_774814.html

What bothers me with Lanza's articles that he always uses scientific experiments to support his ideas.For examples,in this article he uses references to some experiments to point out that we create time.

Quote:
Numerous experiments confirm that such uncertainty is built into the fabric of reality. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a fundamental concept of quantum physics. However, it only makes sense from a biocentric perspective
What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...
Thank you

Last edited by Alexander1304; 2nd December 2015 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 01:40 PM   #2
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The whole 'theory' lacks any actual explanatory power.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 01:42 PM   #3
Alexander1304
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
The whole 'theory' lacks any actual explanatory power.
Did You read the article? I am puzzled that he uses experiments,but it seems to me that he interprets these experiments for his own theory use

Wow,here:
http://www.near-death.com/science/research/science.html
I found this about Lanza:

Quote:
His mentors described him as a "genius" and the "Bill Gates of Science."

Last edited by Alexander1304; 2nd December 2015 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 02:19 PM   #4
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I got upto here:

Quote:
According to biocentrism, time is the inner sense that animates the still frames of the spatial world.
Robert Lanza, M.D. Become a fan
Scientist, theoretician and author, 'Biocentrism'


Alright M.D. Lanza, I do not think I will become fan.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 02:32 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post
Hi folks,
I decided to put it here,in 'Science' section,and not under 'Paranormal'.
It is about Robert Lanza'z another article.He argues that we create time,not other way around.Here is the article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_774814.html

What bothers me with Lanza's articles that he always uses scientific experiments to support his ideas.For examples,in this article he uses references to some experiments to point out that we create time.



What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...
Thank you

that article is very silly it basically takes some QM and then spins a fairy tale out of it. No real reason to say that 'time' doesn't exist.

The passage of events occurs, that is the essence of time, the human usage of that idea does not exclude it from reality.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 02:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
that article is very silly it basically takes some QM and then spins a fairy tale out of it. No real reason to say that 'time' doesn't exist.

The passage of events occurs, that is the essence of time, the human usage of that idea does not exclude it from reality.
Hi David,
You see,Lanza even says that uncertainty principle makes sense only under biocentrism.Initially I was baffled but then thought: "Biocenstrism is Lanza's theory,of course he will say everything make sense in his to support his theory.Shouldn't be big surprise
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Old 2nd December 2015, 02:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post
Hi folks,

What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...

This is woo through and through.

I focus on one paragraph that is just plain wrong.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_774814.html
‘An experiment published in 1990 suggests that Zeno was right. In this experiment, scientists demonstrated the quantum equivalent of the adage that "a watched pot doesn't boil." This behavior, the "quantum Zeno effect," turns out to be a function of observation. "It seems,"said physicist Peter Coveney, "that the act of looking at an atom prevents it from changing". Theoretically, if a nuclear bomb were watched intently enough -- that is, if you could check its atoms every million trillionth of a second -- it wouldn't explode. Bizarre? The problem lies not in the experiments but in our way of thinking about time. Biocentrism is the only comprehensible way to explain these results, which are only "weird" in the context of the existing paradigm.’

The ‘observation’ in Lanza’s paragraph, quoted above, does not intrinsically require living organisms. Hence, biocentrism is not a very comprehensible way of explaining the results. To see this, examine an actual experiment closer.


Here is an article describing an experiment which demonstrated the quantum Zeno effect. The articles has a description of the apparatus, the atomic system and the data analysis. In particular, please look at Figure 2.


Please show us any biological intervention in the experiment taking place after the apparatus is built and turned on.



http://www.kristian.molhave.dk/publi...%20effect).pdf
Demonstration of the continuous quantum Zeno effect in optical pumping
22 24q
K. Mølhave, M. Drewsen
A continuous quantum Zeno effect is observed in optical pumping on the 3s S1r2–3p P1r2 transition of the Mg ion.


Also note that the quantum zeno effect is used in inorganic devices as well as organisms. The use of the Zeno effect in inorganic devices shows that biology is not central to its operation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Zeno_effect
‘The Quantum Zeno Effect is used in commercial atomic magnetometers and naturally by birds' magnetic compass sensory mechanism (magnetoreception).


So if the organism is central, how does the atomic magnetometer work?
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Old 2nd December 2015, 03:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post

What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?

Every atomic clock is included with a pair of trained cockroaches and a ten year supply of bull ****.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 03:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post
Hi David,
You see,Lanza even says that uncertainty principle makes sense only under biocentrism.Initially I was baffled but then thought: "Biocenstrism is Lanza's theory,of course he will say everything make sense in his to support his theory.Shouldn't be big surprise
Hi,
yeah it sounds like they have a hammer, so everything is a nail.

QM and the UP do not say that time doesn't exist. It has different meanings at very small scales, but us humans interact with the macrosopic world.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 03:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post
What do you guys think?
That the word salad needs some dressing.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 08:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
He argues that we create time
Wouldn't that mean that time didn't exist before humans existed? That would mean the entire universe is here just for us.

Steve S
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Old 2nd December 2015, 08:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by steve s View Post
Wouldn't that mean that time didn't exist before humans existed? That would mean the entire universe is here just for us.

Steve S
That is, if I understand it correctly, what "biocentrism" is. Its lets say world view or a cool story depends whom we ask.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 07:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Do we create time?
No.

Originally Posted by tuco View Post
I got upto here:

Robert Lanza, M.D. Become a fan
Scientist, theoretician and author, 'Biocentrism'

Alright M.D. Lanza, I do not think I will become fan.
Good choice, Lanza is a well-known woo-peddler. He's a physician with a nonsensical take on quantum mechanics that he's been peddling for years.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 09:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by tuco View Post
That is, if I understand it correctly, what "biocentrism" is. Its lets say world view or a cool story depends whom we ask.
So 'biocentrism' is the same as 'post modernism'?

Or:

'Is Biocentrism' the same as 'sophistry', a classical Greek variation of post modernism?
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Old 3rd December 2015, 10:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post
Hi folks,
I decided to put it here,in 'Science' section,and not under 'Paranormal'.
It is about Robert Lanza'z another article.He argues that we create time,not other way around.Here is the article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert..._b_774814.html

What bothers me with Lanza's articles that he always uses scientific experiments to support his ideas.For examples,in this article he uses references to some experiments to point out that we create time.



What do you guys think?You see,it makes sense only under 'bioncentrism'. Or is it one more woo?
Well,perhaps it shouldn't be put on 'Science',but on some other section...
Thank you
What I suspect from the start is that the two highlighted statements are not identical.
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Old 4th December 2015, 06:44 AM   #16
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I always thought time was due to the Celery Gap. Arlo Guthrie told me so.
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Old 4th December 2015, 07:08 AM   #17
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Do we create time?

We waste time, mostly.
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Old 4th December 2015, 10:46 AM   #18
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I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?
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Old 4th December 2015, 11:45 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
What's it like?
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Old 4th December 2015, 11:46 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?
Keep on practicing until you reach zero point and then solicit money through the web. For only $X, I'll send you my trade secret to boiling water with your brain.
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Old 4th December 2015, 12:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?
For what purpose (if any) did you boil those pots of water?
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Old 4th December 2015, 01:48 PM   #22
Darwin123
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
For what purpose (if any) did you boil those pots of water?
Shrewd! No one else asked about the baby in the pot!
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Old 4th December 2015, 03:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I must posses some kind of superhuman powers as I have watched more than several pots of water, on a hot stove, start to boil right before my very eyes!
The question is, how can I harvest this awesome power for my own gain?
This only serves to demonstrate the proverb "a watched pot is never alone"
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Old 4th December 2015, 05:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
that article is very silly it basically takes some QM and then spins a fairy tale out of it.
But only a very silly fairy tale - that ignores all the conventional means of defining time. There is nothing 'biocentric" about the Heisenberg principal, it's simply a tautology about physical information.

There is no question that there is more to learn about the quantum nature of time, as well as the limitation of an anthropomorphic viewpoint of physics - but Lanza seems heavily invested in promoting a 'voo-doo' position with zero backing evidence.

If his theories are 'scientific'(testable), then as a scientist he should propose a means to test them. Otherwise they are religion & mysticism.
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Old 4th December 2015, 06:15 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by hecd2 View Post
What's it like?
It was sort of impressive, the very first time I saw it, but over time I've gotten so used to it, I'd rarely, if ever, gave it any thought.
That was, until I'd read the OP, then it was like... Woah, mind = blown. I must have time altering superpowers.

Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Keep on practicing until you reach zero point and then solicit money through the web. For only $X, I'll send you my trade secret to boiling water with your brain.
Now we're talking! What good are time altering superpowers if you can't profit from them?
If I'm not mistaken, 'Zero Point' is the same as 'Pointless', right? If so, I'm pretty close to that now.

Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
For what purpose (if any) did you boil those pots of water?
Mainly to generate the unholy substance known as 'Mac'n'Cheese', which, despite my utter revulsion to the substance, my kids love to no end. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
Shrewd! No one else asked about the baby in the pot!
No, no, no. What's in the pot is FOR the babies. (See above)

Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
This only serves to demonstrate the proverb "a watched pot is never alone"
Isn't it, "A watched clock never tics.", or is it, 'A stitch in time has blown my mind.' ?
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Old 4th December 2015, 06:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
It was sort of impressive, the very first time I saw it, but over time I've gotten so used to it, I'd rarely, if ever, gave it any thought.
That was, until I'd read the OP, then it was like... Woah, mind = blown. I must have time altering superpowers.



Now we're talking! What good are time altering superpowers if you can't profit from them?
If I'm not mistaken, 'Zero Point' is the same as 'Pointless', right? If so, I'm pretty close to that now.



Mainly to generate the unholy substance known as 'Mac'n'Cheese', which, despite my utter revulsion to the substance, my kids love to no end. Go figure.



No, no, no. What's in the pot is FOR the babies. (See above)



Isn't it, "A watched clock never tics.", or is it, 'A stitch in time has blown my mind.' ?
Nonononono! It's "a stitch in time causes puckering"
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Old 4th December 2015, 08:13 PM   #27
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Nevermind.

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Old 5th December 2015, 02:15 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
...
Mainly to generate the unholy substance known as 'Mac'n'Cheese', which, despite my utter revulsion to the substance, my kids love to no end. Go figure.
...
Okay, so that's for others' gain. The problem of harvesting that power for your own gain has just become more difficult
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Old 5th December 2015, 03:13 AM   #29
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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
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Old 5th December 2015, 06:21 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
That's very deep. You should send that to Readers Digest, they have a page for things like that.
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Old 5th December 2015, 07:23 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Nonononono! It's "a stitch in time causes puckering"
I thought the relevant quote was, "A watched boil never pops."
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Old 7th December 2015, 10:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
That the word salad needs some dressing down!!!!.
FTFY
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Old 8th December 2015, 07:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Alexander1304 View Post
It is about Robert Lanza'z another article.
Robert Lanza is lying, Alexander1304.
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a fundamental concept of quantum physics that has made sense since 1928. Biocentrism has only existed since 2007.
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Old 8th December 2015, 08:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Robert Lanza is lying, Alexander1304.
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a fundamental concept of quantum physics that has made sense since 1928. Biocentrism has only existed since 2007.
I agree, but I think we can state the case even more strongly. The uncertainty principle in all its forms (the Heisenberg one being just one of many) is a direct mathematical consequence of a mathematical theory which makes no reference to biology. In fact, it doesn't even depend upon any measurements (where stuff like observers and consciousness are usually shoehorned in), it's a property of the wave function itself, at all times.

"To the layman, the philosopher, or the classical physicist, a statement of the form "this particle doesn't have a well-defined position" (or momentum, or x-component of spin angular momentum, or whatever) sounds vague, incompetent, or (worst of all) profound. It is none of these. But its precise meaning is, I think, almost impossible to convey to anyone who has not studied quantum mechanics in some depth."
- David Griffiths, "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics"
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Old 8th December 2015, 09:13 PM   #35
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So before humans there was no time?

No, just no. It makes a tad too much out of the place for humans in the Universe., way to human-centric.
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Old 9th December 2015, 06:25 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So before humans there was no time?

No, just no. It makes a tad too much out of the place for humans in the Universe., way to human-centric.
Yes, but, without humans, there's no real need for 'time', is there?
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Old 9th December 2015, 07:14 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Yes, but, without humans, there's no real need for 'time', is there?
Or space or anything else, for that matter. Though we can relent a little and give God a week or so to arrange the furniture.
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Old 9th December 2015, 09:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Mainly to generate the unholy substance known as 'Mac'n'Cheese', which, despite my utter revulsion to the substance, my kids love to no end. Go figure.
What a quaint name for it. In these parts we know it as Yellow Death.


Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Sounds like something a certain Mr. Adams might have written.
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Old 9th December 2015, 09:55 AM   #39
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Do we create time?

Do you have the time, to create time?

Incidentally, do you have "the time".
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Old 9th December 2015, 12:28 PM   #40
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Wasn't there some TV cop once who said that if you can't do the time don't create it or something?
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