Is rationality dead?

NoahFence

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This came up on my facebook wall (sans my edit) -

But I'm wondering with great sadness. Are we done as a polite society, no longer capable of rational thought?

It seems we have the attention span of a tse tse fly at this point.

picture.php


There is nothing accurate in the text that accompanies this image. Nothing. Obama did NOT apologize. This will do nothing to dissuade ODS sufferers from forwarding this asinine image.

Why is stupid so loud?
 
This came up on my facebook wall (sans my edit) -

But I'm wondering with great sadness. Are we done as a polite society, no longer capable of rational thought?
It seems we have the attention span of a tse tse fly at this point.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1270&pictureid=10739[/qimg]

There is nothing accurate in the text that accompanies this image. Nothing. Obama did NOT apologize. This will do nothing to dissuade ODS sufferers from forwarding this asinine image.

Why is stupid so loud?

Full stop!

If you are talking about the USA, then when has the USA ever really been polite....or rational?
 
The problem isn't irrationality. The problem is the treatment of politics as if it were a sporting event. Treating it like professional wrestling.

You pick your party as if they were your team, and suddenly they're the good guys. Everyone else is bad guys. You cheer for your team and jeer at the others. It doesn't matter if what you say is true or false anymore, because you're already acting as if the whole thing were a game. All that matters is winning.

Obama didn't apologize for WWII, but that doesn't matter. Obama is a bag guy and this is a good time to proclaim his weakness. Tomorrow they'll be shouting about some other thing he didn't do that makes him look like an overbearing dictator unapologetic about some imagined horrible thing he did.
 
The problem isn't irrationality. The problem is the treatment of politics as if it were a sporting event. Treating it like professional wrestling.

You pick your party as if they were your team, and suddenly they're the good guys. Everyone else is bad guys. You cheer for your team and jeer at the others. It doesn't matter if what you say is true or false anymore, because you're already acting as if the whole thing were a game. All that matters is winning.

Obama didn't apologize for WWII, but that doesn't matter. Obama is a bag guy and this is a good time to proclaim his weakness. Tomorrow they'll be shouting about some other thing he didn't do that makes him look like an overbearing dictator unapologetic about some imagined horrible thing he did.

People base their opinions and thus their decisions based on complete and utter falsehoods. Can't something be done about this?
 
The problem isn't irrationality. The problem is the treatment of politics as if it were a sporting event. Treating it like professional wrestling.

You pick your party as if they were your team, and suddenly they're the good guys. Everyone else is bad guys. You cheer for your team and jeer at the others. It doesn't matter if what you say is true or false anymore, because you're already acting as if the whole thing were a game. All that matters is winning.

Obama didn't apologize for WWII, but that doesn't matter. Obama is a bag guy and this is a good time to proclaim his weakness. Tomorrow they'll be shouting about some other thing he didn't do that makes him look like an overbearing dictator unapologetic about some imagined horrible thing he did.

This.

But I do think we're dumb.
 
This came up on my facebook wall (sans my edit) -

But I'm wondering with great sadness. Are we done as a polite society, no longer capable of rational thought?

It seems we have the attention span of a tse tse fly at this point.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1270&pictureid=10739[/qimg]

There is nothing accurate in the text that accompanies this image. Nothing. Obama did NOT apologize. This will do nothing to dissuade ODS sufferers from forwarding this asinine image.

Why is stupid so loud?

The people who spread that kind of **** are the ones who are anti-American. They will never get it.
 
When was American society - or any society, for that matter - ever rational?

We are rationalizing creatures, not rational ones. Big difference.
 
When was American society - or any society, for that matter - ever rational?

We are rationalizing creatures, not rational ones. Big difference.

It was never this bad. We've all heard that a lie can make it around the world before the truth can even get out of bed, but social media has taken it to an unfortunate extreme.

Something needs to be done.
 
It was never this bad. We've all heard that a lie can make it around the world before the truth can even get out of bed, but social media has taken it to an unfortunate extreme.

Something needs to be done.

Actually, it's been worse.

For example, 1. the slavery rhetoric leading up to Lincoln's term in office.
2. the Red-baiting and Sedition rhetoric preceding World War I
(In fact that whole era from 1890 to 1920 was a nightmare)
3. the lies surrounding the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights
movement.


Now...I'm not saying that what you are talking about is not a problem...it is. I just wanted to give you some perspective about how bad things can get....and they can get even worse.

What can be done? Well...Screw reason, because Stupid People are immune to it. therefore, I suggest mocking them and being ready to fight at a moments notice if they should get so angry - I mean punch them right in the mouth if they dare lay their hands on you.

Think you are ready?
 
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It was never this bad. We've all heard that a lie can make it around the world before the truth can even get out of bed, but social media has taken it to an unfortunate extreme.

Yeah, I think it has been this bad. One might make the argument that the Internet makes the stupidity more widely seen, but the level of stupidity is not higher now than in the past.

Something needs to be done.

I understand how frustrated you are but if you think something can be done, you are gravely mistaken.
 
The problem isn't irrationality. The problem is the treatment of politics as if it were a sporting event. Treating it like professional wrestling.

You pick your party as if they were your team, and suddenly they're the good guys. Everyone else is bad guys. You cheer for your team and jeer at the others. It doesn't matter if what you say is true or false anymore, because you're already acting as if the whole thing were a game. All that matters is winning.

I've noticed the same thing. It's funny though, it always turns out that I support my side because it's the correct and rational thing to do, while my opponents are irrational, emotion-driven people who treat it as sport. Odd that it's never the other way around.
 
Speaking of the worst of the worst, here I am.

Obama makes a special trip to Hiroshima to lay a wreath and call for the end of nuclear weapons. He doesn't mention the dropping of two atomic bombs brought an end to their evil empire that slaughtered millions, or that they had attacked Pearl Harbor and brought us into WWII in a big way, because Hitler declared war on us right after that. He doesn't mention over 100,000 Americans were killed and over 250,000 wounded fighting the war Japan started. He doesn't mention the 600,000 casualties we suffered fighting in Europe, including 200,000 KIA.

So, what would a rational person conclude was the reason Obama went to Hiroshima? Clearly the wreath shows he felt bad about what happened there. The call for nuclear weapons never to be used again would have to mean they never should have been used in the first place. A mistake.

Could he possibly not be sorry for us using weapons that never should have been used in the first place? I don't think so.

Dropping the atomic bombs was a mistake, he felt bad about it, and he made a special trip there to let them know about it. That is an apology.
 
Speaking of the worst of the worst, here I am.

Obama makes a special trip to Hiroshima to lay a wreath and call for the end of nuclear weapons. He doesn't mention the dropping of two atomic bombs brought an end to their evil empire that slaughtered millions, or that they had attacked Pearl Harbor and brought us into WWII in a big way, because Hitler declared war on us right after that. He doesn't mention over 100,000 Americans were killed and over 250,000 wounded fighting the war Japan started. He doesn't mention the 600,000 casualties we suffered fighting in Europe, including 200,000 KIA.

So, what would a rational person conclude was the reason Obama went to Hiroshima? Clearly the wreath shows he felt bad about what happened there. The call for nuclear weapons never to be used again would have to mean they never should have been used in the first place. A mistake.

Could he possibly not be sorry for us using weapons that never should have been used in the first place? I don't think so.

Dropping the atomic bombs was a mistake, he felt bad about it, and he made a special trip there to let them know about it. That is an apology.
Get over it dude. It was over 70 years ago and everyone is dead.

Unless you want to bring up your slavery and massacre of native Americans.
 
Get over it dude. It was over 70 years ago and everyone is dead.

Unless you want to bring up your slavery and massacre of native Americans.

The irony of finding this post in the "Is rationality dead?" thread can't be overstated.
 
Dropping the atomic bombs was a mistake, he felt bad about it, and he made a special trip there to let them know about it. That is an apology.

No, it is not. It was a reminder to the world how horrible nuclear weaponry is and why nuclear proliferation is important.
 
Is rationality dead? No. Are there idiots out there who have never been able to exercise it? Yep.

But I fully understand losing hope in humanity based on so much idiocy you come across on the internet.
 
No, it is not. It was a reminder to the world how horrible nuclear weaponry is and why nuclear proliferation is important.
This ^^^^

And as an outsider was very respectfully and diplomatically done.

It is called international relations

All of which will be screwed if Trump becomes president
 
I wonder why conservatives weren't so angry when Bush went to Hiroshima........

Nah, I'm not wondering at all.
 
I remember seeing some Americans wishing to refuse help to Japan after the 2011 earthquake/tsunami because of the Pearl Harbor Attacks.

Crazier than that...there were some people who decided to send food to Japan....like Japan was some poor, third-world country that couldn't feed and house its people.

They must have been thinking of New Orleans.
 
So, what would a rational person conclude was the reason Obama went to Hiroshima?
Well, a rational one would have listened to what he said, which was largely that nations should try to avoid the horrors of war in the future.

Clearly the wreath shows he felt bad about what happened there.
Anybody who does not feel bad about what happened there is a monster. And should never be allowed anywhere remotely close to public office.

The call for nuclear weapons never to be used again would have to mean they never should have been used in the first place. A mistake.
No, it would not. That is an interpretation that you have chosen to place on those words. It's also a rather poor one, given that he directly explains the context in which he is calling for it during his speech. To quote :

"Mere words cannot give voice to such suffering, but we have a shared responsibility to look directly into the eye of history and ask what we must do differently to curb such suffering again. Someday the voices of the hibakusha will no longer be with us to bear witness. But the memory of the morning of August 6th, 1945 must never fade. That memory allows us to fight complacency. It fuels our moral imagination. It allows us to change.

And since that fateful day, we have made choices that give us hope. The United States and Japan forged not only an alliance, but a friendship that has won far more for our people than we could ever claim through war. The nations of Europe built a Union that replaced battlefields with bonds of commerce and democracy. Oppressed peoples and nations won liberation. An international community established institutions and treaties that worked to avoid war and aspire to restrict and roll back, and ultimately eliminate the existence of nuclear weapons. "

What he's saying is that we should work to make war less likely, and ideally to eliminate it, by building relationships between nations - and thus create a world in which nuclear weapons will never be used because there will never be a need to use them.

To try and claim that he therefore meant that the bombs should not have been used in the context of nations who had no such relationship is worse than a poor interpretation - it is factually incorrect and borderline dishonest.

Could he possibly not be sorry for us using weapons that never should have been used in the first place? I don't think so.
Again; only a monster would not be sorry that America had to use those weapons. Being sorry that they were used is not the same thing as believing it was wrong to use them, and not even remotely close to apologising for using them.

Dropping the atomic bombs was a mistake, he felt bad about it, and he made a special trip there to let them know about it. That is an apology.
In your head it is. But your head seems to have little relation to reality in this case.
 
Is rationality dead?

Well, it certainly appears dead on some sections of the forum.
 
It was not. It saved many American and Japanese lives who would have been extinguished in an invasion. My wife, who is Japanese, admits this.

I think most rational people understand this. A conventional conflict would have been prolonged to the tune of millions more dead Japanese.

The appeal of an apology from Japan is not coming from their anger at Americans, but rather, their desperate need to shift their status in the SE Asian political sphere from 'previously evil empire' to 'just one more Asian ex colony, victim of European overreach'.

An American apology would pave the way for an environment where they can stop listening to Korean and Chinese demands for apologies and compensation for plundering the mainland in the first half of the 20th century.
 
Actually, it's been worse.

For example, 1. the slavery rhetoric leading up to Lincoln's term in office.
2. the Red-baiting and Sedition rhetoric preceding World War I
(In fact that whole era from 1890 to 1920 was a nightmare)
3. the lies surrounding the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights
movement.


Now...I'm not saying that what you are talking about is not a problem...it is. I just wanted to give you some perspective about how bad things can get....and they can get even worse.

What can be done? Well...Screw reason, because Stupid People are immune to it. therefore, I suggest mocking them and being ready to fight at a moments notice if they should get so angry - I mean punch them right in the mouth if they dare lay their hands on you.

Think you are ready?

This is something that I have had to think about for a long time - how do skeptical organizations measure the level of 'irrationality' for the purpose of tracking change?

What are the units of 'wackiness'?
 

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