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Old 6th February 2016, 11:20 AM   #1
Bram Kaandorp
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Stopped listening, sadly.

For a moment I thought I might be able to listen to the show.

After the NECSS hubbub I thought "Sure, I disagree with the decision, but the show still stands on its own merits.

But then in the beginning of episode 552, when discussing Jay's return to the show (after having been to Sweden), Jay asked if anything big had happened while he was gone, and everyone seemed to feign ignorance, as if they didn't know, yet did know.

It felt so disingenuous that it almost made my skin crawl.

After that moment, I unsubscribed.


It's one thing to not talk about it at all. They had addressed it a few episodes previously, and even though I disagreed, at least they were fair enough to mention it. The episode after that was back to normal, so I thought things would just be as they were.

But this feigned ignorance, this "Oh, did something happen?" mentality didn't sit well with me.

Please tell me why I'm being childish. I dare you

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Old 6th February 2016, 12:03 PM   #2
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I take it that this has something to do with Dawkins not being allowed to speak at a NECSS meeting (it would help if you explained what the issue as and wh you are so outraged).

In my view, meh. The show stands on its own and is outstanding. I'm never likely to go to a NECSS meeting, so I don't really care who is on it. Childish? Probably not. Unnecessarily outraged? Probably.
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Old 6th February 2016, 12:44 PM   #3
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It's the flippant nature of the exchange on this week's show, as if it wasn't worth talking about.

Of course they already had mentioned it two shows earlier, so they were under no obligation to mention it again. But that's why it irked me so much that they threw in that aside this week.

As I said, it's not the Dawkins/NECSS business which stopped me listening. It's the things I mentioned above that stopped me.
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Old 6th February 2016, 03:44 PM   #4
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To clarify further, here is a transcript of the bit I took issue with:

Steven: "Well, not much has been happening here while you were gone to be honest with you"
Evan: "It's been quiet"
Steven: "Typical week"
Jay: "Yeah, so what was the big thing that happened?"
Bob: "I got a haircut"
Evan: "I got a shave"
Steven: "So Bob, tell us about this week's forgotten superhero of science"

Again, maybe i am making a mountain out of a molehill, but at least tell me if this doesn't sound like they're beating around the bush.
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Old 6th February 2016, 04:38 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
To clarify further, here is a transcript of the bit I took issue with:

Steven: "Well, not much has been happening here while you were gone to be honest with you"
Evan: "It's been quiet"
Steven: "Typical week"
Jay: "Yeah, so what was the big thing that happened?"
Bob: "I got a haircut"
Evan: "I got a shave"
Steven: "So Bob, tell us about this week's forgotten superhero of science"

Again, maybe i am making a mountain out of a molehill, but at least tell me if this doesn't sound like they're beating around the bush.
You do realize that whole bit was tongue-in-cheek, right?
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Old 6th February 2016, 04:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
You do realize that whole bit was tongue-in-cheek, right?
Of course I do. It being tongue-in-cheek wasn't what annoyed me. It's what they were tongue-in-cheek about that annoyed me.

The issue was nontrivial, and that was acknowledged in episode 550. So to have them (not) talk about it in such a lighthearted fashion took me out of the enjoyment of the episode.

It sounded more like they tried to make a joke in order not to address it further.

Glossing over it was a phrase that came to mind.

And again, not talking about it at all anymore would have been fine. This, however...
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Old 7th February 2016, 07:58 AM   #7
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I'm not going to listen until they get rid of Rebecca.
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Old 7th February 2016, 08:13 AM   #8
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I was most irritated by their new sponsor - Credit Karma. Sure, it's "free".

However, it may have been just a one-week thing.
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Old 7th February 2016, 10:34 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I'm not going to listen until they get rid of Rebecca.
Don't you mean Cara?
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Old 7th February 2016, 11:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I was most irritated by their new sponsor - Credit Karma. Sure, it's "free".

However, it may have been just a one-week thing.
It wasn't though. They've had them as a sponsor for some time, just not every week.


Upon further consideration, I've decided to continue listening. One bad joke a bad show doesn't make.
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Old 7th February 2016, 11:50 AM   #11
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tempest in a thundermug!!!
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Old 7th February 2016, 12:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
tempest in a thundermug!!!
Yup.
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Old 7th February 2016, 10:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
Don't you mean Cara?
They have Cara Santa Maria? She's hot!
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Old 8th February 2016, 03:06 AM   #14
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I'm an occasional listener, but sometimes the podcast bores me frankly, like when Bob is going on about something for too long. I mostly listen to it for Steve Novella, but I think it could do with some more editing. But it's free, and I guess I shouldn't expect production values like This American Life or some other really slick podcasts which are out there and are produced by professional radio people.

The "forgotten superheroes of science" thing? I get what they are trying to do, but it has gotten boring. Yes, there's lots of people who have made important contributions to science but who aren't household names. I get it.

ETA: When I do get bored or annoyed by them, I usually just skip ahead to the next podcast I have queued up. I usually have plenty of other material to listen to because there's a lot of podcasts I subscribe to.
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Old 8th February 2016, 03:19 AM   #15
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I've never been able to listen to SGU, not the style of podcast I like, at least not for science related content. It's like overhearing a group of friends chatting in a bar. Blame it on being brought up listening to BBC Radio 4.

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
They have Cara Santa Maria? She's hot!
She wouldn't stay still long enough to get a decent shot.

P1080400 by zooterkin, on Flickr

ETA: Same nerdy glasses, I wonder if hers are plain glass like Rebecca's?
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Old 12th February 2016, 11:59 PM   #16
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They started going downhill since Perry died. He was the one true skeptic of the bunch. Steve kept things listenable and he booked some interesting guests, but the podcast slowly turned into an echo chamber and Rebecca Watson SJW groupthink. Haven't listened in years and don't ever plan to go back.
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Old 28th February 2016, 09:35 PM   #17
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It was one thing to mirror the "guys don't do that" thing...maybe you could argue that was ok

But when they circled the wagons repeatedly after rebecca started attacking people, it got silly.

And now its just plain the SJW guide to the SJWverse
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Old 10th March 2016, 02:47 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
They have Cara Santa Maria? She's hot!
I am sure that is one of the reasons she is on the show......

Even in the world of science and skepticism.having a hottie around is a big help in selling the product....
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Old 15th March 2016, 08:46 AM   #19
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Most of the middle third of this podcast discusses free speech vs. Social Justice and insight into the NECSS decision concerning Dawkins. It has been discussed on the podcast now in depth and, as usual, Novella is the voice of reason.
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Old 16th March 2016, 12:47 PM   #20
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I wish someone had replied to my last post already so I could reply to that post instead of covering my own post, but it's OK. This is what I also thought when I posted previously and still think now.

Considering the theme of the thread, posting a picture of a woman who is speaking at a skeptical conference and then saying she is hot is clearly inflammatory given the topic. You wouldn't post a picture of a man speaking and say he was hot. I suspect I have a history of sexists posts -- but I always drew the line at what I thought might make the woman I was addressing uncomfortable.

My point is that perhaps some people who identify themselves as against SJWers need to think why they are against something instead of why they are for something. I think spending your time for something is more worthwhile.
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Old 16th March 2016, 01:14 PM   #21
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I don't think it's bad to identify yourself as being against something, as long as that translates into constructive actions. This is not always the case in any group you look at, on any subject. There are always people who, with good intentions, utterly screw up, for whatever reason.

And this is not to defend any specific group, but to point out that it's not impossible to be strongly opposed to something and still get a lot of good things done.

Just look at skeptical groups like the Good Thinking Society or SKEPP. You could argue that they are primarily for critical thinking, but in practice, they are openly against pseudoscience, psychics, pseudo medicine and the like.
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Old 18th March 2016, 12:22 PM   #22
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Red face

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
I don't think it's bad to identify yourself as being against something, as long as that translates into constructive actions.
What, like bombing Nazi rail lines? Are SJWers that scary to you? I'm way more of a free speech guy than a social justice guy. However it is clear as day to me that there have been misogynistic opinions expressed in other threads and maybe I should have chosen one of those threads to post in instead of this thread to make my point.

Anyway, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe seems alive and well and healthy and worth listening to me.

Good luck with your next podcast.
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Old 18th March 2016, 01:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
What, like bombing Nazi rail lines? Are SJWers that scary to you? I'm way more of a free speech guy than a social justice guy. However it is clear as day to me that there have been misogynistic opinions expressed in other threads and maybe I should have chosen one of those threads to post in instead of this thread to make my point.

Anyway, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe seems alive and well and healthy and worth listening to me.

Good luck with your next podcast.
What gave you the impression that the highlighted is the case?

And I agree wholeheartedly that the SGU is alive and kicking.
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Old 18th March 2016, 02:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
What gave you the impression that the highlighted is the case?

And I agree wholeheartedly that the SGU is alive and kicking.
OK, I'm going to post under the assumption that you are not a fan of the SJWier because you started this thread. I'm instead lumping you into a group of people who seem to care too much about the SJWier. You people remind me of other people who dislike certain groups because maybe they hit too close to home.
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Old 18th March 2016, 02:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
OK, I'm going to post under the assumption that you are not a fan of the SJWier because you started this thread. I'm instead lumping you into a group of people who seem to care too much about the SJWier. You people remind me of other people who dislike certain groups because maybe they hit too close to home.
I'm surprised you didn't call me an MRA.

Broad brush comes to mind.

ETA: One to chalk up on the boards; The first time I used the initialism "MRA" in a forum post, or, indeed, in any way at all in text form.
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Old 19th March 2016, 10:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
I'm surprised you didn't call me an MRA.
I'm not surprised since I had to look up what MRA meant.
Quote:
Broad brush comes to mind.
Perhaps, but you started a thread with, what I believe, is a flawed premise. I believe the SGU is now and always has been a fine podcast.

Also, I have read some ugly posts disparaging people who identify themselves as believing in social justice in other threads. Many of those posts made me wonder why some people get crazy emotional over others beliefs that don't effect them.
Quote:
ETA: One to chalk up on the boards; The first time I used the initialism "MRA" in a forum post, or, indeed, in any way at all in text form.
I shall chalk that up, indeed.
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Old 19th March 2016, 04:09 PM   #27
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I already said (earlier in the thread) that I have decided to continue listening to the show, because I think they handled it well, and I was a bit too sensitive about what amounts to an off-handed remark without malice.

What more do you want?

Also, in my initial post, I said that the show stands on its own merit, which I could only have said if I thought (as I do, and as I have said multiple times) that the show is good.

So again, what's your problem?
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Old 20th March 2016, 08:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post

So again, what's your problem?
For someone who wrote...

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post

It felt so disingenuous that it almost made my skin crawl...


Please tell me why I'm being childish. I dare you

... you seem a little sensitive.

Perhaps I should have posted in the thread that I initially found offensive but I didn't want to get involved in that thread and have to monitor it for replies. This thread involved Dr. Novella who I find crazy brilliant so I may have carried a little hostility from there to here.
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Old 20th March 2016, 11:23 AM   #29
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I was being facetious, as illustrated by the smiley at the end of the sentence.

Also, I had already said that I had continued listening to the show before you started posting in this thread. It's almost as if you were trying to stir a pot that had already settled.
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Old 20th March 2016, 11:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
I was being facetious, as illustrated by the smiley at the end of the sentence.

Also, I had already said that I had continued listening to the show before you started posting in this thread. It's almost as if you were trying to stir a pot that had already settled.
You know that's not true.

We can, however, let this go.
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Old 20th March 2016, 02:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
You know that's not true.

We can, however, let this go.
What is not true?

That I said that I had continue to listen before you started posting? Or that it's almost as if you're trying to stir the pot?

Because both are correct from where I'm sitting.

Whether you intended to stir the pot or not is, of course, beyond my knowledge.
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Old 20th March 2016, 04:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
What is not true?
That you are not the real pot stirrer.
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Old 21st March 2016, 03:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
That you are not the real pot stirrer.
I... wow.

I asked you which of the two statements are not true, because you said that something wasn't true in that specific post.

Why are you bringing up a completely different issue? Sure, you could argue that I appear to be stirring the pot, but all I have to say to disprove that is: I genuinely felt the way I wrote at the time. I didn't write it for the sake of causing a ruckus.

How will you counter whichever of the two statements you thought isn't true?

Here they are again:

1. I said that I had continued to listen to the show before you started posting
2. It's almost as if you're trying to stir the pot
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Old 21st March 2016, 08:54 AM   #34
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Mod WarningDo not personalize the topic.
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Old 22nd March 2016, 02:53 PM   #35
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We have been warned to not personalize the topic however the topic was why you stopped listening to the SGTTU and we now agree we both still enjoy listening to it. Our issue is now if you stirred the pot when you started this thread.
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Old 23rd March 2016, 07:18 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
We have been warned to not personalize the topic however the topic was why you stopped listening to the SGTTU and we now agree we both still enjoy listening to it. Our issue is now if you stirred the pot when you started this thread.
I already said that I wasn't stirring the pot. I was relating my objections to a joke.

On further reflections, I retracted my objections.

That's about the size of it.


Did I act rashly? Yes.

Did I do so in order to whip up a frenzy? No.


So, no, I didn't stir the pot.

I also didn't presume that someone was "not a fan of the SJWier", and I also didn't say the following:

"I'm instead lumping you into a group of people who seem to care too much about the SJWier."


As far as I was concerned, this thread had run its course when I said that I had continued listening to the show.

So, who's stirring the pot, and making it personal at that?
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Old 23rd March 2016, 10:18 AM   #37
Senex
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post

So, who's stirring the pot, and making it personal at that?
Since you acknowledged you acted rashly and if you no longer post in this thread we can put this thread to bed.
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Old 6th April 2016, 11:23 AM   #38
Jules Galen
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
For a moment I thought I might be able to listen to the show.

After the NECSS hubbub I thought "Sure, I disagree with the decision, but the show still stands on its own merits.

But then in the beginning of episode 552, when discussing Jay's return to the show (after having been to Sweden), Jay asked if anything big had happened while he was gone, and everyone seemed to feign ignorance, as if they didn't know, yet did know.

It felt so disingenuous that it almost made my skin crawl.

After that moment, I unsubscribed.


It's one thing to not talk about it at all. They had addressed it a few episodes previously, and even though I disagreed, at least they were fair enough to mention it. The episode after that was back to normal, so I thought things would just be as they were.

But this feigned ignorance, this "Oh, did something happen?" mentality didn't sit well with me.

Please tell me why I'm being childish. I dare you

Don't worry. Compared to Dawkins, these people are "Nobodies". Dawkins will be fondly remembered long after these people are forgotten.
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Old 22nd June 2016, 06:14 PM   #39
Swordfishtrombone
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One of my favorite podcasts, and likely to stay so - would forgive much for these guys (and gal).

Finding the podcast - and I don't remember exactly how it happened, my memories are pretty blurred from that time - was the spark that started my recovery from severe depression. Got me interested in something again. Got me taking walks listening to their podcast. Then finding other podcasts too. Gradually gaining enough strength to seek help.

I'm back on my feet now, and haven't been depressed at all for several years.

Podcasts, starting with this one, and the fact that I could get them for free (I was completely broke, and in debt), were a lifeline.

So I'm rather unlikely to stop listening, or supporting the show, now that I can afford it.
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Old 23rd June 2016, 03:14 AM   #40
Bram Kaandorp
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Originally Posted by Swordfishtrombone View Post
One of my favorite podcasts, and likely to stay so - would forgive much for these guys (and gal).

Finding the podcast - and I don't remember exactly how it happened, my memories are pretty blurred from that time - was the spark that started my recovery from severe depression. Got me interested in something again. Got me taking walks listening to their podcast. Then finding other podcasts too. Gradually gaining enough strength to seek help.

I'm back on my feet now, and haven't been depressed at all for several years.

Podcasts, starting with this one, and the fact that I could get them for free (I was completely broke, and in debt), were a lifeline.

So I'm rather unlikely to stop listening, or supporting the show, now that I can afford it.
Great to hear the show helped you get out of a bad place, and that you're doing well. That's exactly what shows like the SGU are perfect for.

And hey, it's a great show! Perhaps superfluously, I'll say again that I still listen to them. The incident which caused me to pause and reconsider wasn't nearly as severe in hindsight as it seemed to be at first.
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