Obama: "Trump unfit to serve as President"

As I said, every SecOfState, every Presidential administration is littered with mistakes.

Some more than others.

What makes hers more egregious than say, Condi Rice, who presided over far more attacks and far more deaths than the Obama / Clinton combo?

Rice isn't running for President, is she? But while we're on the topic, Hillary voted for the Iraq war, so you can't really use that as an argument in her favor.
 
If "failed to achieve peace in the Middle East"* is the standard, then everyone is unfit.

But Trump probably can't find Libya on a map. And probably knows nothing about who lives there, their history, or their relationships with other countries. And thinks he has a "good brain" so doesn't even feel he needs to learn any of it.


*yeah, North Africa, but depending on your definition, included in the "Middle East"

I don't know, I suspect he already has plans to convert the Secret Service to a Gaddafi-style body guard corp.
 
Some more than others.



Rice isn't running for President, is she? But while we're on the topic, Hillary voted for the Iraq war, so you can't really use that as an argument in her favor.

And to try to get this back on topic, Trump's running mate Pence not only voted for the war, but co-sponsored the war resolution. Apparently, though, it's ok when a Republican does it.
 
I find it odd that there are people that chastise me or anyone else for wanting to vote for Trump, but have no qualms about me voting for a known liar.
 
I find it odd that there are people that chastise me or anyone else for wanting to vote for Trump, but have no qualms about me voting for a known liar.

I guess there are liars and there are liars. To get a decent compendium of Hillary lies you have to comb through 40 years of public pronouncements and even then a couple fall into the IMO "trivial" category.

OTOH any single Trump speech has a hat full of whoppers.

Lying alone wouldn't necessarily disqualify Trump as a fit President (although given the industrial scale on which he does it, it debatable) the main points are:

  • His inability to curb impulse to do or say somethin inappropriate
  • His complete lack of relevant experience - not IMO in itself a disqalifying factor but when combined with the others does make him unsuitable)
  • His ignorance on a wide range of very important topics
  • His apparent unwillingness to engage with experts on those topics relying instead on his - often wrong - gut
  • His long list of subjects about which he is a bigot - in the event that he is elected then he is everyone's President, not just those that voted for him
 
Of course he should be. Why would we question if he should involve himself?

Well, it wouldn't happen here. Not only would a PM not comment on his potential successors whilst in office, he wouldn't comment afterwards, either.
 
I find it odd that there are people that chastise me or anyone else for wanting to vote for Trump, but have no qualms about me voting for a known liar.
Your sentence suggests Trump is not liar or that Trump's lies are comparable to Hillary's. Nice try.
 
And to try to get this back on topic, Trump's running mate Pence not only voted for the war, but co-sponsored the war resolution. Apparently, though, it's ok when a Republican does it.

That's a non-sequitor, since I never even mentioned Pence.
 
That's a non-sequitor, since I never even mentioned Pence.
I realize you didn't mention Trump or his running mate in this thread about Trump*. Why you feel the need to point out how off topic your posts are escapes me, however.


*eta: about Obama's claim about Trump
 
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And to try to get this back on topic, Trump's running mate Pence not only voted for the war, but co-sponsored the war resolution. Apparently, though, it's ok when a Republican does it.

That isn't "apparently". That's what Trump literally said.

“I don’t care,” Trump said of Pence’s vote. Pressed on how he could say that given he’s used Hillary Clinton’s vote on the same war as evidence that she’s unfit to be commander in chief, Trump responded that it was “a long time ago” and that it doesn’t matter because he (Trump) was “right on Iraq” from the beginning (a statement for which there is no actual evidence). “He’s entitled to make a mistake every once in a while,” Trump added of his new no. 2. “But [Clinton’s] not?” Stahl shot back. “No,” Trump said, “she’s not.”
 
Despite the impression you might get from some posters it appears plenty of highly placed Republicans are inclined to agree with Obama:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36962942

Republican donor Meg Whitman has endorsed his rival Hillary Clinton, saying Mr Trump's "demagoguery" had undermined the national fabric.

Senior party activist Jan Halper-Hayes told the BBC she thought Mr Trump was "psychologically unbalanced".

How bad does Trump have to be when people like this passed through gritting their teeth and doing their complaining in private to actually denouncing their own candidate?
 
Despite the impression you might get from some posters it appears plenty of highly placed Republicans are inclined to agree with Obama:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36962942



How bad does Trump have to be when people like this passed through gritting their teeth and doing their complaining in private to actually denouncing their own candidate?

WHitman is also donating to the Clinton Campaign. Unreal.
 
I'm not quite certain what to make of this, but then I don't need much to believe that Trump is unfit to serve in this role. Where's Martin Sheen or Terry Crews when you need 'em?

Trump asks why US can't use nukes: MSNBC

Donald Trump asked a foreign policy expert advising him why the U.S. can't use nuclear weapons, MSNBC's Joe Scarborough said on the air Wednesday, citing an unnamed source who claimed he had spoken with the GOP presidential nominee.

"Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise Donald Trump. And three times [Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can't we use them," Scarborough said on his "Morning Joe" program.​
 
I'm not quite certain what to make of this, but then I don't need much to believe that Trump is unfit to serve in this role. Where's Martin Sheen or Terry Crews when you need 'em?
Trump asks why US can't use nukes: MSNBC

Donald Trump asked a foreign policy expert advising him why the U.S. can't use nuclear weapons, MSNBC's Joe Scarborough said on the air Wednesday, citing an unnamed source who claimed he had spoken with the GOP presidential nominee.

"Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise Donald Trump. And three times [Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can't we use them," Scarborough said on his "Morning Joe" program.​
That story seems crazy and, despite the fact that I think Trump is an insane monster, I won't even start to believe it until names are named and this "expert" comes forward.

If true though, it marks him as absolutely, unquestionably unfit to be President.
 
That story seems crazy and, despite the fact that I think Trump is an insane monster, I won't even start to believe it until names are named and this "expert" comes forward.

If true though, it marks him as absolutely, unquestionably unfit to be President.

Well...

MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in '45, heard it. They're hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.

TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).

MATTHEWS: Because of the old mutual assured destruction, which Reagan hated and tried to get rid of.
 
Fair enough, though in a public setting I would chalk that up to his stupid tough talk that he thinks will get him votes. Sitting in private and discussing the same thing seems much more ominous.

Again, I think he's a crazy person who shouldn't be allowed on a White House tour, let alone to occupy the Oval Office, but I won't accept anonymous hearsay even if it seems to validate my existing opinions.
 
Libya was supposed to be the crowning achievement of her time as Secretary of State. How's that working out?

Let me explain this to you. Libya is France's turf, and France was going in, with UK support, independently of what the US would do.
Hillary offered support to allies, fed the militaristic hunger of America and helped topple a long standing dictatorship, all without one American soldier dead in the operations.
If she had sat it out, you would be complaining of her lack of will and how she let your allies down.
 
I'm not quite certain what to make of this, but then I don't need much to believe that Trump is unfit to serve in this role. Where's Martin Sheen or Terry Crews when you need 'em?

Trump asks why US can't use nukes: MSNBC

Donald Trump asked a foreign policy expert advising him why the U.S. can't use nuclear weapons, MSNBC's Joe Scarborough said on the air Wednesday, citing an unnamed source who claimed he had spoken with the GOP presidential nominee.

"Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise Donald Trump. And three times [Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can't we use them," Scarborough said on his "Morning Joe" program.​

Lol
 
That story seems crazy and, despite the fact that I think Trump is an insane monster, I won't even start to believe it until names are named and this "expert" comes forward.
I've seen this story and that is a fair criticism. I wish this sounded more unlikely than it currently does.
 
Hillary is unfit because of Libya? Wasn't Mitt Romney in favor of military intervention there? And I guarantee Ziggurat voted for Romney.

Such extreme, blatant dishonesty and hypocrisy.
 
I've seen this story and that is a fair criticism. I wish this sounded more unlikely than it currently does.

I'd totally forgotten about this:

MATTHEWS: OK. Your most controversial suggestion was don't take nuclear weapons -- I mean, you may have been hooked into this by (inaudible).

TRUMP: Don't take what?

MATTHEWS: Nuclear weapons off the table.

I have been trying to think of how we could conceivably use a nuclear weapon in the Middle East or in Europe in fighting ISIS. Where can you -- and why put it on the table or leave it on the table if you can't imagine where to use it?

TRUMP: Well, I didn't say, "Don't take it." I said I would be very, very slow and hesitant to pull that trigger.

MATTHEWS: Well, why would you -- why wouldn't you just say, "I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about nuclear weapons. Presidents don't talk about use of nuclear weapons"?

TRUMP: The question was asked -- we were talking about NATO -- which, by the way, I say is obsolete and we pay a dispropor...

MATTHEWS: But you got hooked into something you shouldn't've talked about.

TRUMP: I don't think I -- well, someday, maybe.

MATTHEWS: When? Maybe?

TRUMP: Of course. If somebody...

MATTHEWS: Where would we drop -- where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?

TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain. Somebody hits us within ISIS, you wouldn't fight back with a nuke?

MATTHEWS: No. To drop a nuclear weapon on a community of people that are...

TRUMP: No, no, but you can't say -- first of all, you don't want to say, "Take everything off the table..."

MATTHEWS: No, just nuclear.

TRUMP: ... because you'd be a bad negotiator if you do that.

MATTHEWS: Just nuclear.

TRUMP: Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be used, possibly, possibly?

MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in '45, heard it. They're hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.

TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).

MATTHEWS: Because of the old mutual assured destruction, which Reagan hated and tried to get rid of.

TRUMP: (inaudible) I was against Iraq. I'd be the last one to use the nuclear weapon.

MATTHEWS: So can you take it off the table now?

TRUMP: Because that's sort of like the end of the ball game.

MATTHEWS: Can you tell the Middle East we're not using a nuclear weapon on anybody?

TRUMP: I would never say that. I would never take any of my cards off the table.

MATTHEWS: How about Europe? We won't use it in Europe?

TRUMP: I -- I'm not going to take it off the table.​
 
Speaking of nuclear weapons, this is from a Fox News poll released today (poll has Hillary up 10 points)

Co97FSdWgAUww35.jpg
 
I guess there are liars and there are liars. To get a decent compendium of Hillary lies you have to comb through 40 years of public pronouncements and even then a couple fall into the IMO "trivial" category.

Yes, there are liars, and there are liars. There are liars that don't fact check their statements before making them, and then there are bold face liars like Hillary.
 
Yes, there are liars, and there are liars. There are liars that don't fact check their statements before making them, and then there are bold face liars like Hillary.
The evidence that Hillary lies more than a normal politician (or person) does not exist. While the GOP Fuhrer is clearly the most dishonest nominee ever.
 
Yes, there are liars, and there are liars. There are liars that don't fact check their statements before making them, and then there are bold face liars like Hillary.

Like Hillary? What kind of liar do you consider Trump?
 
It's really, really sad that nearly every conversation about Clinton and Trump devolves into "well yeah the other one does it worse!"

I'll gladly "throw away" my vote on Gary Johnson this year simply because he has the best meme going out there. Yes, this election's choices are THAT bad, that I'm voting based on a meme.
 
Idiom fail. -10 points.

Sorta. Bold, while not as common, is an acceptable version of bald-faced or barefaced in this context.

But any attempt to make Hillary out to be a bigger lie-facer than any other politician with her longevity and career in the field is simply character-assassination. Do keep in mind, I'm not a fan of Hillary, but I generally like truth in my advertising, and this campaign has ended up with me defending/supporting Clinton far more than I would like or want. But, whether it's buying into the propaganda that has been leveled at her for decades, or actively working against her, it amounts to the same thing. Politicians have an agenda, and speaking to that agenda, for personal or political ends, means making statements that at times, or from a certain point of view, can be seen as false. Are they actually lies? Not necessarily. This is part of the reason that PolitiFact offers a spectrum of analysis from "True" through "Half-True" to "Pants of Fire". Comparing Clinton to, say, Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, and you'll see very similar report cards, with the majority of their statements being on the upper part of the scale of truth.

Clinton has done as any other politician would in her position and with her same goals in mind. She's crafted stories that support her position, at times cherry-picked elements or spun events to better suit her particular worldview, misspoken, miss-remembered or conflated some statements, and has only been a "Pants on Fire" a handful of times. Of course, her political enemies want to do the same, and thus make a full narrative out of those failures. Over time, with repeated viewing, we arrive at a conclusion that could just as easily be leveled at similar politicians—but because of the constant repetition of this narrative, without taking into consideration who is making the allegation or what their agenda might be, the public has bought into with no better support than any other argument from repetition.

This ad nauseam attack through decades of bombardment, has certainly paid off. People now regard Clinton as a liar of the highest caliber, second only to Satan or his right hand Trump. It's allowed discussion to be hand-waved away with a, "Well, Hillary lies, so . . ." without ever digging into the facts of the matter. It's become a myth of epic proportions, on the scale of anti-vaxxers or flat Earthers. Now, no matter how much evidence if brought to the fore, how much explanation is provided, or how much reasonableness is applied, the acceptable axiom is that Hillary lies.
 
[
The analogy couldn't be more of a fail. Lack of experience does not compare to mentally dysfunctional.
Just because you don't agree with Trump doesn't mean he is mentally dysfunctional. Trump has a lot of experience "winning." I'm not sure what other experience(s) you'd like him to have.

Evidence, please.
He did not say it.
http://www.snopes.com/obama-hillary-clinton-isnt-qualified/

WHAT'S TRUE: An attack ad aired during the 2008 Democratic Primaries stated that Hillary Clinton will "say anything and do nothing."

WHAT'S FALSE: Barack Obama didn't say that Hillary Clinton could not be trusted or that she was not qualified for president.
I also don't believe this is true, do you have a reputable source for this claim?

ETA: Ah yes, the claim is untrue.
Yes, my mistake. I attributed the quote to the wrong person. Hillary said that about Obama. Thanks for calling me out and providing evidence.

Instead, Obama implied that Hillary is a liar, and a few years later she is the best person to become the next president. Somewhat conflicting statements...

What does everybody here think about Gary Johnson?
 
[Just because you don't agree with Trump doesn't mean he is mentally dysfunctional. Trump has a lot of experience "winning." I'm not sure what other experience(s) you'd like him to have.

Political experience ? Experience where it takes more than money to be "winning" ?

Yes, my mistake. I attributed the quote to the wrong person. Hillary said that about Obama. Thanks for calling me out and providing evidence.

You are wrong again. Should we be surprised at this point ? :rolleyes:

Instead, Obama implied that Hillary is a liar, and a few years later she is the best person to become the next president. Somewhat conflicting statements...

No.
What does everybody here think about Gary Johnson?

Wrong thread.
 
Just because you don't agree with Trump doesn't mean he is mentally dysfunctional. Trump has a lot of experience "winning." I'm not sure what other experience(s) you'd like him to have.

What do you call winning? If you had invested in Trump stock in Atlantic City hotels you would have lost your shorts. Trump always seems to do well for himself. But for thousands of vendors, investors and customers, not so much. Few if any successful business people have cheated so many, leaving thousands of others holding the bag. More than 4,000 legal actions against him. Do you really believe you can just rationalize that away?

BTW, I agree with many things Trump has said. Too bad, his positions seem to change like the weather though. I don't think Trump is clinically insane and belongs in an institution. As long as we keep sharp objects out of his hands and don't let him near the "football", I think we're OK. But he does and says so many crazy things, I can't find a better word. Can you?
 
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Jeb Bush also called Trump unqualified. Unqualified/unfit, same thing essentially?

Republican congressman Richard Hanna recently called him unfit and said he would vote for Hillary Clinton.

Mitt Romney:


Rubio:


etc.

I think there's a difference. Unqualified has to do with experience, and unfit with character. Take Newt Gingrich, who was plenty qualified with many years in Congress, which included a stretch as Speaker of the House. But he was unfit, having cheated on his wife while she was dying of cancer, and when he married the woman he cheated on his late wife with, he then cheated on her.
 
If Trump makes President, he'll be impeached before Valentine's Day.

But I have to admit that Trump does have one or two good qualities. (Yes, I do admit that). Best example I know is re: the environment... The Donald is very much into recycling! He ravenously eats his feces after a dump and follows that with a warm hearty quaff of his personally produced urine!!!!! You can't get much more recyclic than that - and it saves regular food for others!!!

I'll keep studying his environmental policies and see what else can be dug up!!!!
 
Their crazy moron bigot voters would never forgive them.

I like offering them free tickets to Hawaii, loading them all into older working but out of service aircraft and sending them out over the sea with enough fuel to get 3 or 400 hundred miles out and the actual minimal crew has parachutes and decent equipment to be rescued quickly and easily afterward.

I freely admit to having borrowed this from an SF story some many years back where this was used to get rid of dangerous criminals.
 
It's really, really sad that nearly every conversation about Clinton and Trump devolves into "well yeah the other one does it worse!"

I'll gladly "throw away" my vote on Gary Johnson this year simply because he has the best meme going out there. Yes, this election's choices are THAT bad, that I'm voting based on a meme.

My conversations usually end with "One is crazy, the other isn't".
 

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